Why do Many Christians Ignore YHWH's Moedim?

HARK! said:

The truth is that Paul continued to observe the same Moedim that Yahushua observed as an example to us, long after Yahshua had ascended.

Why would Paul recognize them?

Why would Paul say this?:

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

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He said
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

HARK! said:

Again, Paul was speaking to those who were, coming out of Paganism.

Don't let your Pagan family and friends judge you as you observe Sabbaths in obedience to YHWH.

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You are adding assumptions to that passage to make it mean what you want it to mean. What you are stating it means isn't alluded to anywhere in the entire letter. If you seek to put a definition on it, one the plain text doesn't reflect, then you will need to justify it with the surrounding text.

Moed is the Hebrew word for rehearsal or memorial or appointed time, and often translated as festival. Passover and The Feast of Unleavened Bread are moedim or appointed times. They are the LORD's appointed times for doing business with man. The idea of Passover as an appointed time is expressed by the words of Yeshua as he prepares to meet his own appointed time in Jerusalem. In Matthew 26:17-18, Yeshua calls this particular Passover my appointed time. Yeshua has identified the appointed time of the not only the Passover but also the Festival of Unleavened Bread as his appointed time for fulfillment. Thirty three years Yeshua lived and walked on the earth. But that year, he says that the Passover is His appointed time.

SeventyOne said:

You are adding assumptions to that passage to make it mean what you want it to mean. What you are stating it means isn't alluded to anywhere in the entire letter. If you seek to put a definition on it, one the plain text doesn't reflect, then you will need to justify it with the surrounding text.

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In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul gives the festivals, new moons and Sabbaths prophetic value by saying they were shadows of things to come. The appointed times in the ceremonial feasts are shadows of things to come. This particular verse in Col 2:16-17 has not been clearly studied and understood today as it must have been commonly understood in Paul’s day. Paul saw no need to explain the messianic and prophetic interpretations to be found in the festivals. He was raised on these festivals and probably thought they were commonly understood and they probably were for their point and time.

pescador said:

Why shouldn't they? I celebrate the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, not the calendar.

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Jewish traditions have always taught that redemption from Egypt foreshadowed the great and final redemption brought about through the Messiah. Jewish commentators regarded Moses as a type of the Messiah coming. The Passover meal is full of Messianic allusions and prophetic expectations. There is even a Jewish tradition of setting a chair at the table for Elijah, the heralder of the Christ. Paul never explained and probably never felt the need to explain or defend his words, because his interpretation of Christ as Passover Lamb was from years of keeping the feasts. In the first century, believers regarded the Passover sacrifice of a lamb as finding a type of Messianic satisfaction in the death of Yeshua. We today have no problem with Yeshua as the Passover lamb but we have lost the prophetic value of what it truly means in the light of prophetic fulfillment.

nolidad said:

Simply? Because the feasts and festivals were ordered for the descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob or Jews! Gentriles are not Jews, these festivals are part of teh Mosaic Law and the law has been fulfilled and rendered void!

People are free to keep them if they choose, but until the Messianic Kingdom, they are not for the Church in general, These all have their fulfilment either in Messiah or the church or in the coming Messianic kingdom.

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There is an appointed place for all this to occur. Yeshua knew this particular Feast of Unleaven Bread was his appointed time. Yeshua had been keeping all the feasts through out His entire life, studying it since He was old enough to understand and yet this particular year, this particular Passover, Feast of Unleaven Bread, First Fruit or Feast of Weeks and Penecost were in His mind as the appointed time.

What was it about this particular spring time feasts that Yeshua knew were going to be prophetic reality? What did Yeshua know about these feasts and their timing, that He knew it was His appointed time?

What did Yeshua see in the Spring Feasts that lead Him to fulfill them the way that He did and not the way that the people of that time had hoped? It was necessary, if he was to meet this particular appointment, that he go up to the appointed place, Jerusalem, the city of God's Temple. Preparations for the appointed time of Passover and Unleavened Bread began well in advance of the actual festival. This was especially so in Jerusalem. The city of Jerusalem needed to prepare for a massive influx of pilgrims.

Back in those days, there were probably a lot of behind the scenes work that needed to be done, just like it is done today when everyone at home and on the main streets of town dresses up for the coming Christmas season. Prior to the festivals the different types of things that needed to be made ready from the individuals homes, to the church activities in preparations, to the city itself from the market place to the chambers of the rulers, major increase in activities were all for the coming event.

Special ovens were probably built for roasting of the thousands and thousands of Passover lambs. Arrangements would have to be made for the accommodations and lodgings of all pilgrims arriving for this event. The Passover was one of three festivals that God commanded everyone was to attend, so this cause even great gatherings that at other festivals held throughout the year.

As the pilgrims approached the city from all over the world to keep the feasts, their multitudes would end up converging until their throngs filled the roads into Jerusalem. Amid the multitude of conversations, there were probably voices singing psalms by those that were caught up in the moment and spirit of this festival. It brought joy to their hearts as they went up to Jerusalem to keep the appointed time in the appointed place. You can almost picture Yeshua and his disciples approaching Jerusalem, just as one group among a multitude of many groups. Yeshua knew that He was Appointed Sacrifice, the Lamb.


During the first century, Judaism with all its various off shoots were expecting the Redeemer, tired of the Roman yoke, studying the scriptures and coming to the conclusion that prophetic fulfillment was close at hand, this festival was of more interest than in other years. The Messianic expectations were probably running at an all time high. In the celebration of Passover, also known as the Festival of Redemption, the people had hope in it’s soon fulfillment.

It was probably a common belief at that time that redemption brought about by the Messiah, would take place at Passover. This Messiah, they believed would be like another Moses who would lead them out from under the bondage of the Rome. Word about Yeshua had spread throughout the land. The people were wondering if he might not be The One after all. So they were seeking for Yeshua, and were saying to one another as they stood in the temple, "What do you think; that He will not come to the feast at all?"[1] As Yeshua and his disciples came down the Mount of Olives in their approach to Jerusalem, the crowd of pilgrims realized who it was traveling in their midst.

The throngs of pilgrims streaming into Jerusalem became a multitude throwing down their coats and branches to spread a path for Yeshua as he entered the city.


[1] John 11:55

In Exodus chapter 12, are the instructions for the celebration of Passover. The children of Israel were to choose a lamb for the Passover sacrifice on the 10th day of the 1st month, 4 days before the actual slaughtering was to be done.[1]


In the chronology of the time calculations that Yeshua made His made His famous entry back into Jerusalem on the donkey, it was the time for Israel to choose their Lamb of God.

“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, your King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.”[2]


They were claiming him to be the long awaited Christ with their shouting. God instructed the people to purchase an unblemished lamb. The people chose Yeshua as their Messiah.

[1] John 12:1, 13-16 236 Matthew 21:1-16

[2] Zechariah 9:9

HARK! said:

In the 5th century, Socrates Scholasticus Church History book 5 states the fact that until Constantine imposed Dies Solis (Sungod Day) on humanity, most assemblies and believers across the world at that time still kept The Sabbath even as late as 5 centuries later after Yahshua! He clearly knew that this “Sunday” worship was based in Rome on “the account of some ancient tradition”!

"Nor is there less variation in regard to religious assemblies. For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this."

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Of course, Socrates Scholasticus doesn't actually say what you claim concerning Sunday. Further, the quote you provided, ripped entirely from its context, might seem to suggest that Christians gathered for worship on Saturday (apparently, as opposed to Sunday?) but of course such a reading of Socrates Scholasticus here would require that we either conclude that he doesn't know what he's talking about; as the evidence that Christians gathered on the first day of the week is abundant in the early fathers. However, given the context of the isolated quote, I suspect the more likely situation is that you have misunderstood what he means.

First, let us establish what the ancient fathers themselves have to say (this is hardly exhaustive, but is sufficient to establish the point):

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death — whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master — how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, having come, raised them from the dead." - St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Magnesians, ch. 9

"The Sabbath is mentioned at the beginning of the creation [thus]: "And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it." Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, "He finished in six days." This implies that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifies, saying, "Behold, today will be as a thousand years." Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. "And He rested on the seventh day." This means: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. Moreover, He says, "You shall sanctify it with pure hands and a pure heart." If, therefore, any one can now sanctify the day which God has sanctified, except he is pure in heart in all things, we are deceived. Behold, therefore: certainly then one properly resting sanctifies it, when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves. Further, He says to them, "Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure." You perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens." - Epistle of Barnabas, ch. 15:3-9

"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration." - St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch. 67

"This sixth day is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. For He perfected Adam, whom He made after His image and likeness. But for this reason He completed His works before He created angels and fashioned man, lest perchance they should falsely assert that they had been His helpers. On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God, or a fast. On the seventh day He rested from all His works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord's day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews," - Victorinus, On the Creation of the World

"If any one should assert that all those who have enjoyed the testimony of righteousness, from Abraham himself back to the first man, were Christians in fact if not in name, he would not go beyond the truth. For that which the name indicates, that the Christian man, through the knowledge and the teaching of Christ, is distinguished for temperance and righteousness, for patience in life and manly virtue, and for a profession of piety toward the one and only God over all — all that was zealously practiced by them not less than by us.

They did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things. But they also clearly knew the very Christ of God; for it has already been shown that he appeared unto Abraham, that he imparted revelations to Isaac, that he talked with Jacob, that he held converse with Moses and with the prophets that came after." - Eusebius of Caesarea, Church History, Book I, ch. 4.6-8


Now having established the testimony of the first four centuries of Christ's Church, let us turn our attention to the passage from Socrates Scholasticus' History:

"Moreover the Quartodecimans affirm that the observance of the fourteenth day was delivered to them by the apostle John: while the Romans and those in the Western parts assure us that their usage originated with the apostles Peter and Paul. Neither of these parties however can produce any written testimony in confirmation of what they assert. But that the time of keeping Easter in various places is dependent on usage, I infer from this, that those who agree in faith, differ among themselves on questions of usage. And it will not perhaps be unseasonable to notice here the diversity of customs in the churches. The fasts before Easter will be found to be differently observed among different people. Those at Rome fast three successive weeks before Easter, excepting Saturdays and Sundays. Those in Illyrica and all over Greece and Alexandria observe a fast of six weeks, which they term 'The forty days' fast.' Others commencing their fast from the seventh week before Easter, and fasting three five days only, and that at intervals, yet call that time 'The forty days' fast.' It is indeed surprising to me that thus differing in the number of days, they should both give it one common appellation; but some assign one reason for it, and others another, according to their several fancies. One can see also a disagreement about the manner of abstinence from food, as well as about the number of days. Some wholly abstain from things that have life: others feed on fish only of all living creatures: many together with fish, eat fowl also, saying that according to Moses, these were likewise made out of the waters. Some abstain from eggs, and all kinds of fruits: others partake of dry bread only; still others eat not even this: while others having fasted till the ninth hour, afterwards take any sort of food without distinction. And among various nations there are other usages, for which innumerable reasons are assigned. Since however no one can produce a written command as an authority, it is evident that the apostles left each one to his own free will in the matter, to the end that each might perform what is good not by constraint or necessity. Such is the difference in the churches on the subject of fasts. Nor is there less variation in regard to religious assemblies. For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this. The Egyptians in the neighborhood of Alexandria, and the inhabitants of Thebaïs, hold their religious assemblies on the sabbath, but do not participate of the mysteries in the manner usual among Christians in general: for after having eaten and satisfied themselves with food of all kinds, in the evening making their offerings they partake of the mysteries. At Alexandria again, on the Wednesday in Passion week and on Good Friday, the scriptures are read, and the doctors expound them; and all the usual services are performed in their assemblies, except the celebration of the mysteries. This practice in Alexandria is of great antiquity," - Socrates Scholasticus, Church History, Book V, ch. 22

I have taken a larger section of the text, but not the entirety of it, for the sake of brevity, however the entirety of the text can be read online (here) so as to verify my remarks concerning it following.

What should be immediately observable is that here Socrates speaks of diversity of practice concerning the celebration of the Paschal Feast (i.e. Easter), and in the portion which you have quoted (which I have highlighted in bold above) is found in that portion of text in which Socrates discusses the many different ways in which the Lenten Fast is honored.

The indication would seem to be that during the period of Lent it was the common practice in many places for the Church to assemble and celebrate the Word and Sacraments on the sabbath, though this practice had ceased to be observed in the Churches of Alexandria and Rome.

Let us note therefore:

That at no point is there a claim that "until Constantine" Christians gathered on the Sabbath for worship, especially as opposed to on the first day of the week, i.e. the Lord's Day.

But rather, Socrates, in speaking of the period of the Lenten Fast, notes that assembling on the sabbath was custom for most of the churches, save for those in Rome and Alexandria.

This practice can still be observed in the way in which, during Great Lent, the Eastern Orthodox Church observes Saturdays with special significance. Likewise in the Coptic Church the Lenten period includes the forbidding of strict fasting on both Saturdays and Sundays (not unlike in the Western Church which in which Sundays are non-fast days during the Lenten Fast).

What we, therefore, see is that Scholasticus discusses the diversity of practice concerning the celebration of the Paschal Feast, and of the period of fasting prior to it. It is this period of fasting in which the question of assembly on sabbaths takes place; and has nothing to do with the ordinary gathering on the first day of the week, which is not excluded during the Lenten period.

-CryptoLutheran

visionary said:

In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul gives the festivals, new moons and Sabbaths prophetic value by saying they were shadows of things to come. The appointed times in the ceremonial feasts are shadows of things to come. This particular verse in Col 2:16-17 has not been clearly studied and understood today as it must have been commonly understood in Paul’s day. Paul saw no need to explain the messianic and prophetic interpretations to be found in the festivals. He was raised on these festivals and probably thought they were commonly understood and they probably were for their point and time.

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That's great as it relates to a general overview of the feast days, but the claim was specific, and that the Colossians were observing these days and Paul was telling them not to let others judge them for observing them, but the text doesn't make that claim. It's very generic in that it could be read as both don't let others judge you keeping the days, as well as don't let others judge you for NOT keeping the days.

I just want to know what part of the text was used to exclude one of the possibilities.

Blemish check was an important aspect in the Passover lamb choosing. Levitical instructions are that the lamb must be checked for blemishes as only a perfect, spotless and unblemished lamb would suffice for the Passover Lamb. At this time, Yeshua goes to the Temple to teach. While there, he is approached by the Pharisees, the Saducees, and various other groups, each with different and difficult questions, all were trying to trap him in his words. When they found no fault with this “Lamb of God” they didn’t even realize they had “chosen” Him because he was without blemish.

Then went the Phrisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk. And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that you art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest you for any man: for you regardest not the person of men. Tell us therefore, What thinkest you? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? But Yeshua perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt you me, you hypocrites? Show me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. And he said unto them, Whose is this image and what is the subscription? They say unto him, Caesar's. Then said he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.[1]

All this is according to the Moedim.
[1] Matt 22:15

SeventyOne said:

That's great as it relates to a general overview of the feast days, but the claim was specific, and that the Colossians were observing these days and Paul was telling them not to let others judge them for observing them, but the text doesn't make that claim. It's very generic in that it could be read as both don't let others judge you keeping the days, as well as don't let others judge you for NOT keeping the days.

I just want to know what part of the text was used to exclude one of the possibilities.

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Now that is an interjection not found.. "NOT" s not found in the text.

visionary said:

Now that is an interjection not found.. "NOT" s not found in the text.

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I wasn't interjecting anything. It was an example of how the original statement Paul made was generic, in that it could be applied to both those observing and those not observing.

Christians or followers of Christ and "appointed times"? Not the best meaning of the word for sure. Yet.. there are many things that were and only for Israel. Sorry but some of what you speak your only taking this or that verse and running with it.

really need to explain what you mean. Most don't know this word.. so.. think of them