Does Matthew 22:14 prove Calvinism and Predestination?

Al Touthentop said:

Christ doesn't dictate anyone's choices. He lays the choice out there and its up to you to chose. If you chose to follow him, you are elected.

If you choose to preach that he forces some people to obey and others not to obey and that he then punishes those who were forced to disobey, you're preaching a Christ that doesn't exist.

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“The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: And he delighteth in his way.” Psalm 37:23 (KJV 1900)

nolidad said:

Indirectly it proves predestination and election ( I do not like calling it Calvinism but biblical truth).

There are far many other veses that show the saved are chosen by God.

Romans 9:23-24
John 6:65
Eph. 1:4-5
Rom. 8:29-30

Among many others are much stronger verses that shows God calls us out of the condemnation that is the lot of all mankind!

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Under Calvinism, God punishes those whom he denied the ability to obey. In truth God calls everyone out of condemnation.

"And if I am lifted up, I will draw all people to myself."

Al Touthentop said:

God is not partial. Romans 2:11.

Under Calvinism, sinners have no choice.

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Sinners can only choose to sin unless born again.

Dave L said:

“The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: And he delighteth in his way.” Psalm 37:23 (KJV 1900)

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Commanded, not forced.

Matthew 22:14 >

"'For many are called, but few are chosen.'"
. . . . . . . .. . . . . . .(Matthew 22:14)

I see how there is the fact of God making choices. But what matters more, I would say, is how a person becomes because of being chosen. The one really favored and chosen is Jesus. And this is because of how Jesus is so pleasing and delighting to our Father. So, what God really has chosen is how we become like Jesus > Romans 8:29. Grace in us favors how Jesus is, changing us in our character to become like Jesus > Ephesians 4:15 < and we minister this to one another > Ephesians 4:29.

Bible Highlighter said:

The biggest chapter that sounds like Calvinism is Romans 9.

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I just looked at what is supposed to be a quote of John Calvin, about Romans 9:21. It seems this scripture goes beyond what is in the quote claimed to be by John Calvin.

Dave L said:

Sinners can only choose to sin unless born again.

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To be born again is to be baptized into Christ through water as Peter and all of the apostles preached (as taught to them by Jesus).

That's a choice. It isn't forced.

Al Touthentop said:

To be born again is to be baptized into Christ through water as Peter and all of the apostles preached (as taught to them by Jesus).

That's a choice. It isn't forced.

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Did you choose for your parents to conceive you?

Al Touthentop said:

Commanded, not forced.

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The new birth gives no options for sin.

Al Touthentop said:

Under Calvinism, God punishes those whom he denied the ability to obey. In truth God calls everyone out of condemnation.

"And if I am lifted up, I will draw all people to myself."

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“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” John 6:37 (KJV 1900)

Bible Highlighter said:

The terms they use are derived from the Bible, but they redefine them to fit their own meaning that is not in the Bible. This is evident in the fact that reading the whole Bible does not teach a person is forced saved and yet others are forced to be unsaved.

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I agree that there are many verses in scripture that admonish everyone to do right do wrong. But perhaps if you were to take on the proof texts used by Calvinists we would get somewhere.

com7fy8 said:

Matthew 22:14 >

"'For many are called, but few are chosen.'"
. . . . . . . .. . . . . . .(Matthew 22:14)

I see how there is the fact of God making choices. But what matters more, I would say, is how a person becomes because of being chosen. The one really favored and chosen is Jesus. And this is because of how Jesus is so pleasing and delighting to our Father. So, what God really has chosen is how we become like Jesus > Romans 8:29. Grace in us favors how Jesus is, changing us in our character to become like Jesus > Ephesians 4:15 < and we minister this to one another > Ephesians 4:29.

I just looked at what is supposed to be a quote of John Calvin, about Romans 9:21. It seems this scripture goes beyond what is in the quote claimed to be by John Calvin.

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It is also grossly misconstrued to say that people are created to be dishonorable. The word used there is not "created" but "refitted." All vessels are made for honor. Some chose to disobey God. Thus Paul tells people that it is absurd to blame God for your own sin. Calvinists preach the opposite. You are forced to sin and are not allowed to question a God that would hold you accountable for sin he caused you to do.

Calvinism is slander against God.

Dave L said:

So he agrees with Catholicism?

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Nothing in the article he wrote promotes Catholicism. I looked him up, too. There is nothing about how he is a Catholic. He just believes the Bible and has written two Christian books. So the idea of trying to slander him so as to discourage others from reading the article is not going to work.

Dave L said:

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” John 6:37 (KJV 1900)

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You're refuting yourself.

Albion said:

I agree that there are many verses in scripture that admonish everyone to do right do wrong. But perhaps if you were to take on the proof texts used by Calvinists we would get somewhere.

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Do you really see Unconditional Reprobation in Scripture? Please read 2 Peter 2 through 2 Peter 3. Time and again, over and over, the Bible warns us about sin and how it can destroy us spiritually, and that the only way of escape is through Jesus Christ. Jesus warned about how looking upon a woman in lust can cause us to be in danger of hellfire in Matthew 5:28-30. Jesus teaching us that does not make any sense if it is God who decides who is saved or unsaved. Jesus warning us about sin would not make any sense if Calvinism was even remotely true.

Dave L said:

Did you choose for your parents to conceive you?

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And this is relevant because?

Al Touthentop said:

And this is relevant because?

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He is trying to relate this to how we are born again spiritually.
But of course, the parallels or examples that Jesus made were not always to be taken to an extreme form of literalism, though.

Al Touthentop said:

We do not have our nature cleansed but our sins. We were not born with a sin nature. We were born with a will that often serves our own desires rather than God's.

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I disagree about the nature. Our flesh is our carnal nature. (Not to be confused with our physical body of flesh and bone. Romans 8:10-11).

Ever since Adam sinned, we became the slave of sin in our nature. Romans 7:13-14 says,

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

When we came to Jesus, presuming all reading this truly have repented, He cleansed our past sins. Why, only our past sins (2 Peter 1:9)? Because He gave us the power of the Spirit of Christ to be dead to sin. When we were born again, it was our nature that was changed to partake of the divine nature of God.

2 Peter 1:2-4
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Bible Highlighter said:

Do you really see Unconditional Reprobation in Scripture? Please read 2 Peter 2:2 through 2 Peter 3. Time and again, over and over, the Bible warns us about sin and how it can destroy us spiritually, and that the only way of escape is through Jesus Christ. Jesus warned about how looking upon a woman in lust can cause us to be in danger of hellfire in Matthew 5:28-30.

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You've cited a lot of verses that you think close off the possibility of predestination. Most of them do not seem to actually do that, but in any case, you need to rebut the verses and passages used by Calvinists if you are to prove your case.

Jesus teaching us that does not make any sense if it is God who decides who is saved or unsaved. Jesus warning us about sin would not make any sense if Calvinism was even remotely true.

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See? This is an attempt to disprove predestination by applying your interpretation to the verses you think speak of free will. That's not wrong, but it doesn't win the argument unless the ones cited by the other side are shown to have been misunderstood.

Dave L said:

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

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You can not be born again unless you believe God’s calling and repent.

Matthew 21:28 (WEB) But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first, and said, ‘Son, go work today in my vineyard.’ 29 He answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind, and went. 30 He came to the second, and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I’m going, sir,’ but he didn’t go. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?”

They said to him, “The first.”

Jesus said to them, “Most certainly I tell you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering into God’s Kingdom before you. 32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you didn’t believe him; but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. When you saw it, you didn’t even repent afterward, that you might believe him.

dqhall said:

You can not be born again unless you believe God’s calling and repent.

Matthew 21:28 (WEB) But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first, and said, ‘Son, go work today in my vineyard.’ 29 He answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind, and went. 30 He came to the second, and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I’m going, sir,’ but he didn’t go. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?”

They said to him, “The first.”

Jesus said to them, “Most certainly I tell you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering into God’s Kingdom before you. 32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you didn’t believe him; but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. When you saw it, you didn’t even repent afterward, that you might believe him.

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You cannot believe unless first born again (saved).