Why do Many Christians Ignore YHWH's Moedim?

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Dkh587

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The book of Hebrews. It pretty much explains how Christ is better than all that the Jews held dear. So if He’s better, then He is our focus, not the types and shadows of Him.
I’ve never seen any commands in the book of Hebrews That tells followers of Messiah to stop keeping God’s holy days.
 
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Hammster

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I’ve never seen any commands in the book of Hebrews That tells followers of Messiah to stop keeping God’s holy days.
Then you miss the message of the greatness of Christ.

But there’s more.


Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
— Romans 7:1-4

No more duty to the law if you are in Christ.


Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day⁠— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
— Colossians 2:16-17
 
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SeventyOne

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1.) YHWH said his Moedim are to be observed forever
2.) Yahshua kept YHWH's Moedim

3.) Yahshua's hand picked Apostles kept YHWH's Moedim, even after his ascension.
4.) The Early ecclesia kept YHWH's Moedim for hundreds of years.
5.) Orthodox Churches keep YHWH's Moedim to this day
6.) YHWH's Moedim will be kept in the Kingdom to come.


So why do many Christians ignore YHWH's Moedim?

They are ignored because people think their purpose is for Jews only. Only the Jews were charged with observing those days, and that to establish patterns for His people to study and recognize. The Lord stated plainly that these days are His days, and we even see observances continue in the Millennial Kingdom.

That said, the Church was not charged with observing these days the way the Jews were. In fact, a number of them weren't observed by the Jews until they were in their land, established, and planting crops. So for a time, God didn't even require observation by the Jews.

But none of that doesn't mean we shouldn't look and learn from them since their function is obviously tied to the Church. For example, His death and resurrection on Passover and Firstfruits gave rise to the new covenant, under which the Church came to be, that's a direct connection to the Church. Paul states Jesus is our Firstfruit offering. If the Church has no connection to Firstfruits, that means nothing to us, but as it turns out, it's another direct connection to the Church. The Holy Spirit came and conceived the Church on Pentecost, again, another direct connection, and later to be fulfilled by Jesus when He raptures us on a future Pentecost.

So, while we don't observe then, we are directly connected to them.
 
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SkyWriting

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That's seriously weak.

Considering that the Early church was observing them; it would be fair to assume that they were given to them.
Assumptions are not fair game. We generally don't learn adult skills from babies.
 
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Der Alte

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1.) YHWH said his Moedim are to be observed forever
2.) Yahshua kept YHWH's Moedim

3.) Yahshua's hand picked Apostles kept YHWH's Moedim, even after his ascension.
4.) The Early ecclesia kept YHWH's Moedim for hundreds of years.
5.) Orthodox Churches keep YHWH's Moedim to this day
6.) YHWH's Moedim will be kept in the Kingdom to come.
So why do many Christians ignore YHWH's Moedim?
I could not find "Moedim" in the OT I did find מועדיו. Which one of YHWH's moedim are not fulfilled in יהושׁע/ישׁוע?
 
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ViaCrucis

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The point of this thread is to shame Christians for not pretending to be Jews, along with false claims such as that this was normative and expected of early Christians.

"Be not deceived with strange doctrines, nor with old fables, which are unprofitable. For if we still live according to the Jewish law, we acknowledge that we have not received grace. For the divinest prophets lived according to Christ Jesus. On this account also they were persecuted, being inspired by His grace to fully convince the unbelieving that there is one God, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son, who is His eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased Him that sent Him.

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death — whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master — how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, having come, raised them from the dead.

Let us not, therefore, be insensible to His kindness. For were He to reward us according to our works, we should cease to be. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live according to the principles of Christianity. For whosoever is called by any other name besides this, is not of God. Lay aside, therefore, the evil, the old, the sour leaven, and be changed into the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be salted in Him, lest any one among you should be corrupted, since by your savour you shall be convicted. It is absurd to profess Christ Jesus, and to Judaize. For Christianity did not embrace Judaism, but Judaism Christianity, that so every tongue which believes might be gathered together to God.
" - St. Ignatius to the Magnesians, ch. 8-10

We hear from St. Justin that there were still Jewish Christians in his time who observed the Torah, but did not regard it obligatory upon the Church.

"There are such people, Trypho, and these do not venture to have any intercourse with or to extend hospitality to such persons; but I do not agree with them. But if some, through weak-mindedness, wish to observe such institutions as were given by Moses, from which they expect some virtue, but which we believe were appointed by reason of the hardness of the people's hearts, along with their hope in this Christ, and [wish to perform] the eternal and natural acts of righteousness and piety, yet choose to live with the Christians and the faithful, as I said before, not inducing them either to be circumcised like themselves, or to keep the Sabbath, or to observe any other such ceremonies, then I hold that we ought to join ourselves to such, and associate with them in all things as kinsmen and brethren. But if, Trypho, some of your race, who say they believe in this Christ, compel those Gentiles who believe in this Christ to live in all respects according to the law given by Moses, or choose not to associate so intimately with them, I in like manner do not approve of them." - St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, ch. 47

We likewise hear of the Nazarenes, Jewish Christians who are orthodox in their teaching, but nevertheless retain Jewish practice.

"In our own day there exists a sect among the Jews throughout all the synagogues of the East, which is called the sect of the Minei, and is even now condemned by the Pharisees. The adherents to this sect are known commonly as Nazarenes; they believe in Christ the Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary; and they say that He who suffered under Pontius Pilate and rose again, is the same as the one in whom we believe." - St. Jerome, Epistle 75, to Augustine, 4:13

There were Jewish Christians who observed Torah in the early Church. Yes. This is true.

It is not true, however, that the Torah was obligatory upon Christians, that the Church on the whole observed Torah, or any such nonsense.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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SwordmanJr

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Hmm.

[Col 2:16 KJV] 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

It's interesting how zealots bring this topic up. I recall it written that the Jews in Jerusalem were zealous for the law. I don't recall that we are given any specifics as what all that entailed, but I'm sure there are self-made authorities over everything we are not told, arguing from silence their case in favor of those Jews living out all the feasts and such, which is fine with me if they did. What I find interesting is that none of Paul's letters to any of the GENTILE churches say anything about following those observances.

I'm totally cool with anyone, be they Jew or Gentile, continuing the observance of those feasts and such, but one ends up arguing from silence and transplanting over onto Gentiles the commands of the Law, which is exactly what the Judaizers were doing in Paul's day whom he cursed, tearing apart the churches with legalistic demands for circumcision and eating separate from Gentiles, like Peter did.

So, for all the legalists out there, be warm and well fed in your observances of those things, but when the sanctimonious demand for observance is leveled against Gentiles because we believe in the harmony of the OT along with the NT, and recognize the importance of CONTEXT and what ALL of scripture has to say about the subject, becoming a pharisee doesn't bode well for the legalists and the image they convey about the christ they follow....oh, yeah. Someone is bound to yammer about the lingual name I used when calling upon the name "Jesus". Well, I have yet to see that those who say, Yeshua or some other spelling-pronounciation are any more spiritual than anyone else. Men look upon the outer appearance, so to speak, while the Lord looks upon the heart.....which is desperately wicked, so who can know it....

Yeah.....whatever.....

Jr
 
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eleos1954

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1.) YHWH said his Moedim are to be observed forever
2.) Yahshua kept YHWH's Moedim

3.) Yahshua's hand picked Apostles kept YHWH's Moedim, even after his ascension.
4.) The Early ecclesia kept YHWH's Moedim for hundreds of years.
5.) Orthodox Churches keep YHWH's Moedim to this day
6.) YHWH's Moedim will be kept in the Kingdom to come.


So why do many Christians ignore YHWH's Moedim?

Whether or not a Christian celebrates the Jewish feast days would be a matter of conscience for the individual Christian. Colossians 2:16-17 tells us, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” Christians are not bound to observe the Jewish feasts the way an Old Testament Jew was, but we should not criticize another believer who does or does not observe these special days and feasts (Romans 14:5).

While it is not required for Christians to celebrate the Jewish feast days, it is beneficial to study them. Certainly, it could be beneficial to celebrate these days if it leads one to a greater understanding and appreciation for Christ’s death and resurrection and the future promise of His coming. As Christians, if we choose to celebrate these special days, we should put Christ in the center of the celebration, as the One who came to fulfill the prophetic significance of each of them.

The Spring moedim (Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost) have been fulfilled in the life of Yeshua.

Spring Moedim

Passover – Pesach
Feast of Unleavened Bread – Matzah
Feast of First Fruits – Yom Habikkurim
Feast of Weeks (Pentecost) – Shavuot

The Fall moedim are yet to be fulfilled, but will be upon Christ’s second coming. This is one of the reasons we anxiously await his return.

Fall Moedim

Feast of Trumpets – Yom Teruah (Rosh Hashanah)
Day of Atonement – Yom Kippur
Feast of Tabernacles – Sukkot

Only Jesus can truly keep Gods moedims' perfectly.

Keeping feasts etc. let each one's conscience be their guide.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 
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expos4ever

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PASSOVER
“And this day shall be unto youfor a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD (YHWH) throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)
And what does a literal translation give?:

And this day hath become to you a memorial, and ye have kept it a feast to Jehovah to your generations; -- a statute age-during; ye keep it a feast

Not forever, but for the appropriate "age".
 
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eleos1954

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Wouldn't this also have happened on the cross?

We experience a spiritual atonement ... until the Lord returns and when He completes His entire plan of salvation .... THEN the spiritual and the physical is united with Him forever more ... at one ment with Him is fully completed (spiritually & physically).

He provided the way to salvation on the cross ... not everyone chooses Him ... and some choose to walk away from Him as well.

John 14:6
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 
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nolidad

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1.) YHWH said his Moedim are to be observed forever
2.) Yahshua kept YHWH's Moedim

3.) Yahshua's hand picked Apostles kept YHWH's Moedim, even after his ascension.
4.) The Early ecclesia kept YHWH's Moedim for hundreds of years.
5.) Orthodox Churches keep YHWH's Moedim to this day
6.) YHWH's Moedim will be kept in the Kingdom to come.


So why do many Christians ignore YHWH's Moedim?

Simply? Because the feasts and festivals were ordered for the descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob or Jews! Gentriles are not Jews, these festivals are part of teh Mosaic Law and the law has been fulfilled and rendered void!

People are free to keep them if they choose, but until the Messianic Kingdom, they are not for the Church in general, These all have their fulfilment either in Messiah or the church or in the coming Messianic kingdom.
 
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Der Alte

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And what does a literal translation give?:
And this day hath become to you a memorial, and ye have kept it a feast to Jehovah to your generations; -- a statute age-during; ye keep it a feast
Not forever, but for the appropriate "age"
.
What makes a translation literal? I have found that what most folks consider "literal" is a version which supports their assumptions/presuppositions.That "age during" is nonsensical. The only place the phrase can be found is in certain Bible translations.
.....Does "Olam" and "Ad" mean eternal or do they mean "age." I could quote the definition from Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew lexicon but you would probably say it is biased. I have been at this forum for over 2 decades. Since I am retired and have nothing but free time I decided a long time ago to see if the Bible defines these words.
.....Here are 36 verses where “Olam” is defined by other adjectives or adjectival phrases as “eternal.” While “olam” does refer to things which are not eternal, there are no verses where “olam” is defined as anything other than “eternal” as in these verses. Feel free to try to prove me wrong.

[1]Isaiah 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, [לעולם] and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
עולם/olam is paired with “shall not be abolished” It is defined as “eternal.”
[2]Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: [לעולם] nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
עולם/olam is paired with “nothing can be put to it nor anything taken from it” “Olam” is defined as “eternal.”
[3]Isaiah 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, [לעולם] and my righteousness shall not be abolished
עולם/olam is paired with “shall not be abolished.” “Olam” is defined as eternal.
[4-5]Isaiah 55:13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting [עולם] sign that shall not be cut off. Isaiah 56:5
עולם/olam is paired with “shall not be cut off.” “Olam” is defined as eternal.
[6]Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting [עולם] covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
עולם/olam is paired with “shall not depart from me.” “Olam” is defined as eternal.
[7]Jeremiah 50:5 They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant [עולם] that shall not be forgotten.
עולם/olam is paired with “shall not be forgotten.” “Olam” is defined as eternal.
[8]Psalms 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, [ינחם] Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
עולם/olam is paired with “will not repent.” “Olam” is defined as eternal
[9]Psalms 125:1 A Song of degrees. They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.[לעולם]
עולם/olam is paired with “cannot be removed.” “Olam” is defined as eternal.
[10]Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever,[עלם] and this is my memorial unto all generations.
[11]Exodus 30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever [עולם] to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.
[12] Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual [עולם] covenant.
[13] Exodus 40:15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting [עולם] priesthood throughout their generations.
[14] Leviticus 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever [עולם] throughout your generations:
[15] Leviticus 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever [עולם] unto them throughout their generations.
[16-22] Leviticus 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever [עולם] unto them throughout their generations.Lev 23:21, 24:3, 23:41, Num 10:8, Num 15:15, 18:23,
[23] Psalms 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, [לעולם] the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
[24-29] Psalms 49:11 Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue for ever, [לעולם] and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. Psalms 79:13, Psalms 89:1, 89:4, Psalms 102:12, Psalms 106:31
[30] Psalms 135:13 Thy name, O LORD, endureth for ever; [לעולם] and thy memorial, O LORD, throughout all generations.
[31-32]Psalms 145:13 Thy kingdom is an everlasting [לעולם] kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations. Psa 146:10
[33]Isaiah 34:17 And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it unto them by line: they shall possess it for ever, [עולם] from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.
.[34]Isaiah 51:8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, [לעולם] and my salvation from generation to generation.
[35]Lamentations 5:19 Thou, O LORD, remainest for ever; [לעולם] thy throne from generation to generation.
[36]Joel 3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, [לעולם] and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
In these verses עולם is paired with “throughout all generations”/”unto all generations.” “Olam is defined as “eternal.


 
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pescador

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1.) YHWH said his Moedim are to be observed forever
2.) Yahshua kept YHWH's Moedim

3.) Yahshua's hand picked Apostles kept YHWH's Moedim, even after his ascension.
4.) The Early ecclesia kept YHWH's Moedim for hundreds of years.
5.) Orthodox Churches keep YHWH's Moedim to this day
6.) YHWH's Moedim will be kept in the Kingdom to come.


So why do many Christians ignore YHWH's Moedim?

Why shouldn't they? I celebrate the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, not the calendar.
 
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Dkh587

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Then you miss the message of the greatness of Christ.

But there’s more.


Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
— Romans 7:1-4

No more duty to the law if you are in Christ.


Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day⁠— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
— Colossians 2:16-17
Where does that command anybody to *stop* keeping God’s holy days?

the Colossian assembly was keeping them, and so were the Corinthian believers, hence Paul teaching them to “keep the feast” 1 Corinthians 5:8

nowhere did anybody teach Christians to stop celebrating them.
 
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Der Alte

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1.) YHWH said his Moedim are to be observed forever
2.) Yahshua kept YHWH's Moedim

3.) Yahshua's hand picked Apostles kept YHWH's Moedim, even after his ascension.
4.) The Early ecclesia kept YHWH's Moedim for hundreds of years.
5.) Orthodox Churches keep YHWH's Moedim to this day
6.) YHWH's Moedim will be kept in the Kingdom to come.
So why do many Christians ignore YHWH's Moedim?
In the mid 90s due to my job I had to move from the bay area to Orange county California. When I had cable installed the installer had a very distinct speaking voice. My wife never bashful said "You should use your voice for the glory of God." He said, "I do. I am the cantor at my synagogue." I had to explain to my wife what that was. A 15 minute cable install turned in to a 45 minute Christian fellowship.
His night job he was the radio voice for the San Diego Chargers. He knew that his salvation was based on faith in Jesus Christ but as a Jew he still observed all the feasts and festivals. Not as an obligation of the law but a celebration of his Jewish heritage.
 
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Where does that command anybody to *stop* keeping God’s holy days?

the Colossian assembly was keeping them, and so were the Corinthian believers, hence Paul teaching them to “keep the feast” 1 Corinthians 5:8

nowhere did anybody teach Christians to stop celebrating them.
What feast?
 
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