The pale horse has come

ZNP said:

The WSJ had an article about coronavirus being America's Great Awakening, paving the way for the gospel. It also underscores the need for three things:

1. The virus is too big a problem for one country to solve, it requires a new world order.

2. The virus shows the benefit of a digital currency that the entire world can use without spreading germs and without worry about how a localized issue could disrupt global markets.

3. We need a unified response from the entire world, having each state or each country have their own response won't work.

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Hi ZNP,

While I appreciate the WSJ for it's news reporting, I don't really hold it as particularly knowledgeable as regards the things of God. The first claim just isn't true. The world has experienced many similar outbreaks on a similar scale. The great outbreak of influenza in the early 1900's affected millions of people the world over.

I'm not really convinced that the virus is some impetus for digital currency. Personally, I believe the growth of internet sales probably did more to push digital currency.

As far as it being the harbinger of a one world government or new world order, that claim has become so old and worn that you'll find people that will tell us that everything that has happened in the last 50 years is going to bring such a thing on. I'm really not convinced that the Scriptures even teach that there will be some one world government order, but if so, it's more likely to come from the work of the United Nations than anything else. That's another idea that seems to have gained a foothold from the 'Left Behind' series, also. The Scriptures actually tell us that in the last days, all the nations will rise up against the return of Jesus to fight him in battle. That doesn't have to be with some one world order any more than all the nations that rose up against Hitler was just an alliance and agreement to fight the Nazi regime.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

miamited said:

Hi ZNP,

While I appreciate the WSJ for it's news reporting, I don't really hold it as particularly knowledgeable as regards the things of God. The first claim just isn't true. The world has experienced many similar outbreaks on a similar scale. The great outbreak of influenza in the early 1900's affected millions of people the world over.

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Yes, but the Spanish flu may have been a prime motivator for Wilson's League of Nations, which in turn ultimately leads to the UN. We did not have the capability for a "world order" in 1918 that we have now. Today the WHO issues guidelines. It is reasonable to argue that those guidelines need to be considered laws since the failure of one country to follow them impacts the health of every other country.

So yes, I agree with you that the pale rider has been with us for thousands of years, I also agree that the world has responded to this rider. We studied these diseases, looked at causes, came up with antibiotics and vaccines, etc. The black plague led to cities putting in sewer systems. Cholera epidemics led to running water. These plagues motivate us to change, always have.

miamited said:

I'm not really convinced that the virus is some impetus for digital currency. Personally, I believe the growth of internet sales probably did more to push digital currency.

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Digital currency is different from paying digitally. Digital currency refers to things like Bitcoin. When you buy with a credit card on the internet you are still using US$ or whatever currency you have, but digital currency is not a currency sanctioned by any government. One impact of this pandemic will be inflation, a hidden tax on the people, because the governments can manipulate their currency. If you move your money to a digital currency like bitcoin you will be see your currency soar in value as these governments inflate their currency.

miamited said:

As far as it being the harbinger of a one world government or new world order, that claim has become so old and worn that you'll find people that will tell us that everything that has happened in the last 50 years is going to bring such a thing on. I'm really not convinced that the Scriptures even teach that there will be some one world government order, but if so, it's more likely to come from the work of the United Nations than anything else. That's another idea that seems to have gained a foothold from the 'Left Behind' series, also. The Scriptures actually tell us that in the last days, all the nations will rise up against the return of Jesus to fight him in battle. That doesn't have to be with some one world order any more than all the nations that rose up against Hitler was just an alliance and agreement to fight the Nazi regime.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

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It seems to me the account in Revelation about not being able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast and people fleeing to the wilderness on the wings of the great eagle is a pretty clear reference to a very powerful government, and I think it is essentially the reformed Roman empire.

dogs4thewin said:

May have been a very small part of the UN being founded, but the UN was founded shortly after WWII concluded while 18-19 was when the first world war was ending.

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Yes, Wilson pushed for the league of nations, an early attempt at what ultimately became the United Nations after WWII made it painfully obvious we need a court where we can try war crimes and deal with difficult issues like Israel and Palestine.

Jesus_is_Saint said:

Will Christians escape great tribulation?
Or they will suffer also?

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Hi JIS,

If you're asking me, my understanding is that the rapture comes after the tribulation has begun. Christians will not escape the great tribulation, but they will escape the wrath of God to follow.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

DamianWarS said:

covid won't be that pale horse killing 2 billion people.

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Hi damian,

As I understand the Scriptures, the pale horse doesn't just kill lots of people in one fell swoop. It will be cumulative over the centuries. Yes, it included the black death, mumps and measles outbreaks, ebola, HIV, influenza A & B, SARS, MERS, and now covid and the many other plagues that have attacked mankind over the last 20 centuries.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

miamited said:

Hi damian,

As I understand the Scriptures, the pale horse doesn't just kill lots of people in one fell swoop. It will be cumulative over the centuries. Yes, it included the black death, mumps and measles outbreaks, ebola, HIV, influenza A & B, SARS, MERS, and now covid and the many other plagues that have attacked mankind over the last 20 centuries.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

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How is one forth measured?

ZNP said:

Can't stress that enough. Kind of pointless to know all mysteries and yet not receive the Lord. The key point in Revelation is that the end of the age is a reaping, a harvest, and we will all stand before the judgement seat.

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This will all come to a close with Christ's return - like a thief in the night when many have fallen asleep - after all of God's people who God ever conceived to create come to a saving faith... then, and only then, will come the return

And that, is not a time you can look at, because it is within God's knowledge alone...

nothing happens the same way twice. What began in fervent faith and persecution will end in apathy and destruction.

Hazelelponi said:

What began in fervent faith and persecution will end in apathy and destruction.

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Not for 144,000

ZNP said:

Not for 144,000

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The 144,000 IS the multitude that no one can number, they are the Bride, the Church, God's people.

ewq1938 said:

144k can easily be numbered. That group is not the larger group that could not be numbered.

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It's representative in number, not literal.

Jeremiah 31:1-4

If anyone is not a "virgin" bride of Christ, they're not going to heaven...

2 Corinthians 11:1-2

We are adopted sons and daughters, to be presented without spot or blemish.. the language of Revelation is the language of all scripture presented in a picture.

in adoption you become a literal son and daughter, not a separate group.

Hazelelponi said:

It's representative in number, not literal.

Jeremiah 31:1-4

If anyone is not a "virgin" bride of Christ, they're not going to heaven...

2 Corinthians 11:1-2

We are adopted sons and daughters, to be presented without spot or blemish.. the language of Revelation is the language of all scripture presented in a picture.

in adoption you become a literal son and daughter, not a separate group.

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I agree with Hazelponi, 144,000 can easily be numbered. I also agree with you that the virgin bride of of Christ is the multitude that no one can number.

It doesn't make sense that John would give us a specific number of 144,000 to represent those that can't be numbered. Rather I think the 144,000 are those that are caught up first to the throne, like a thief in the night He will take them, they are not apathetic and they are not caught up in the destruction of the great tribulation.

DamianWarS said:

How is one forth measured?

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Hi damian,

I'm measuring it by the cumulative population of the earth over the same time period. If, since the horsemen were released, there have been 50 billion people to have lived, then 1/4 would be about 12 billion people.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

miamited said:

Hi damian,

I'm measuring it by the cumulative population of the earth over the same time period. If, since the horsemen were released, there have been 50 billion people to have lived, then 1/4 would be about 12 billion people.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

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population has exponential increase and if the pale horse can't do it in one fell swoop he'll be playing catch up for eternity.

DamianWarS said:

population has exponential increase and if the pale horse can't do it in one fell swoop he'll be playing catch up for eternity.

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"I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

The pale horse does not only kill by plague. The plague in turn causes others to die because the hospital is overrun. It causes a recession and depression, unemployment and famine. Look at the news about how food production is being disrupted, stock market has crashed and unemployment is soaring. What you will soon be reading about is how inflation is soaring. The reason the US government can write a $2 trillion dollar check to assist everyone is they have simply inflated the US dollar. But this in turn causes war. Already there are middle East countries on the brink of war. Oil revenues are plummeting. When you are a totalitarian regime it takes money to keep the rebellions at bay, take away that money and it is like releasing the top of a pressure cooker.

ZNP said:

"I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

The pale horse does not only kill by plague. The plague in turn causes others to die because the hospital is overrun. It causes a recession and depression, unemployment and famine. Look at the news about how food production is being disrupted, stock market has crashed and unemployment is soaring. What you will soon be reading about is how inflation is soaring. The reason the US government can write a $2 trillion dollar check to assist everyone is they have simply inflated the US dollar. But this in turn causes war. Already there are middle East countries on the brink of war. Oil revenues are plummeting. When you are a totalitarian regime it takes money to keep the rebellions at bay, take away that money and it is like releasing the top of a pressure cooker.

Click to expand...

I understand the full spectrum of the pale horse but 2 billion people is a lot. There would have to be a complete collapse of society for it to escalate to this degree.

The Black Death is estimated to have killed 30% to 60% of Europe's population.[13] In total, the plague may have reduced the world population from an estimated 475 million to 350–375 million in the 14th century.[14] It took 200 years for Europe's population to recover to its previous level,[15] and some regions (such as Florence) did not recover until the 19th century.[16][17][18] Outbreaks of the plague recurred until the early 20th century.

I think this is an excellent example of what is possible. Yes, it killed a fourth of the people in Europe. No doubt it killed people in other parts of the world, but when it says the plague has power over a fourth of the earth that can be interpreted two ways -- plagues generally hit in certain regions. A worldwide plague is something quite special, perhaps only possible after the industrial revolution. So if "one fourth of the earth" represents a region of earth within that region you get death due to famine, sword, and plague.