Is a skeptic missing the compassionate part of their being, while only focusing on logic?

VirOptimus · Apr 3, 2020

createdtoworship said:
just trying to help. Maybe when visiting a forum that is not your own, don't tell them that you are here 'to laugh at their views." Which is what you basically just said.

Your "help" is, frankly, not welcome.

I'm just stating the truth, I dont think anyone really cares why I'm here.

KCfromNC · Apr 3, 2020

createdtoworship said:
just trying to help. Maybe when visiting a forum that is not your own

I wasn't aware the owners of the forum were posting in this thread.

BigV · Apr 3, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I debate, and when I debate I have to separate from my emotional side, in order to be logical. That means that posts are factual, yes, but lack compassion. (they are blunt). ..

Based on my own understanding, emotion or lack thereof has little to do with scepticism or religiosity and more to do with how one was raised. And the patterns of dialogue that one developed since the early childhood.

If one had caring parents who loved and were excited when you had ideas different from theirs, you will approach the debate differently from those who had strict parents, quick to stifle and/or punish any hint of challenge to their own views.

BigV · Apr 3, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I was sharing a piece of evidence against abiogenesis,

Now, there is a strange phenomenon that many Atheists/Agnostics have noticed regarding Christians debating science/scientific theories. Typically, Christians demand scientific explanation for everything, down to the minute details.

They need to know how exactly the first life began, what form did it have, what environment was it in. And then, when you show them the theory, they demand details on the environment, etc... and the list goes on and on.

On the other hand, they find absolutely no need to prove the existence of their God and no evidence needed that God created everything. All they have is faith in that God, and somehow, that's a perfectly reasonable explanation for them.

Ken-1122 · Apr 3, 2020

createdtoworship said:
sorry I cannot reply to this as apologetics is off topic for this thread. But I disagree with what was posted. We all have opinions on what constitutes evidence. I simply believe that if you see a painting, logically a painter did exist at some point to paint it. Paintings don't just pop into existence randomly. But this seems to be what the poster was saying that the universe popped into existence like such, but there is simply no evidence of that, so anyway, that is all I can say. no apologetics is allowed here.

If you are so concerned about apologetics, why did you ask the questions? Look I'm just responding to your claims as a skeptic in a respectful, kind, and logical way; something you said doesn't happen. So I am completely on topic. How you choose to respond IF at all, is all up to you.
Now where were we?

createdtoworship said:
Now for the christian part:
Imagine baking a cake in which no ingredients currently exist. If you can't do that, then a creator can't create a universe in which He did not have intelligence.

Why do you assume the Universe was created? How do you know it doesn’t have an eternal existence?

createdtoworship said:
If it is a character trait that is valuable in the universe, versus not valuable, like evil. Then yes the creator would have to have that character trait. I look at this as basic causation. Any effect in the universe must have a cause, the greatest effect (the universe), must have had the greatest cause. We see love in the universe so logically the creator would have to have that character trait. Evil again, is a lack of character. Or not doing something you should. So God naturally would not be required to have that trait because it's a lack of a trait. God would only be required to have love, intelligence and any other positive character trait like patience for example. This is very close to the Christian God. Intelligent, patient, loving, forgiving.

The remainder of your claims assumes the Universe was created, something you have not proven yet. Prove the Universe was created first, then continue on about the creator.

createdtoworship said:
part two:
moral case for God's existence:

Let’s give the argument against my position that self sacrifice is divine,

Ahh so you are now making up your own arguments to disprove? They have a name for that ya know.

createdtoworship said:
“You’re assuming something you call “self-sacrificial love” exists in humans because you can observe self sacrificial behavior, and you can feel the emotion of love, so you assume in some instances the two go together. That’s not completely unreasonable, but if you’re willing to do that for humans, you have to do that for animals, too. Taking self-sacrificial love for granted in humans but refusing to accept that it exists in animals until some authoritative paper says so is completely unreasonable.”

Humans are more intelligent than beasts so we are better able to express love, hate, good, and evil than beasts. They may not have any “Mother Teresa’s amongst them, but then they don’t have any Hitlers, Stalin’s, or Mao amongst them either.

createdtoworship · Apr 3, 2020

KCfromNC said:
I wasn't aware the owners of the forum were posting in this thread.

are you sir interested in christian doctrine? Do you believe in Jesus and or/christianity. Or are you here to also make jokes at christians and mock them, as you did in this post?

createdtoworship · Apr 3, 2020

BigV said:
Based on my own understanding, emotion or lack thereof has little to do with scepticism or religiosity and more to do with how one was raised. And the patterns of dialogue that one developed since the early childhood.

If one had caring parents who loved and were excited when you had ideas different from theirs, you will approach the debate differently from those who had strict parents, quick to stifle and/or punish any hint of challenge to their own views.

well thanks for posting, here is a post from a day or so ago, maybe you will find it interesting regarding skepticism:

When asking for evidence the universe was created from nothing, and likening such events as similar to out dated science such as 'spontanious generation' the skeptic got quite offended....

"Spontaneous generation is biology, not physics, you total ignoramus. Quantum foam, virtual particles, vacuum pressure, matter creation at the event horizon of black holes are all proved experimentally Go back to a real school and learn some science - stop being a laughing stock"

so I wanted to post this for a few reasons, first I would like you to see the mood of the poster, very cynical, very rude, and very offensive. Rude at the simple notion that someone simply disagree with him. I am sure this person is a highly academic person, master's degree or PhD or even a scientist. So I wanted you guys to see that first of all. When I say that skeptics are typically rude in behaviour, that is what I mean.

So that is the topic of this thread, so I figured I would post that.

also a poster in this thread said this, just yesterday:

VirOptimus said:
I’m not offended at all. I’m amused of your projections and how clueless you are on most academic subjects however.

I also said that this type of rude behaviour I have seen is very becoming of a skeptic. At least from my perspectives. When skeptics get cornered logically they typically get mean.
the skeptic basically admitted to coming here on CF To laugh at christians:

VirOptimus said:
I have already told you, for the (unintentional) humor on display here.

again this is sort of what I find very common in skeptics. Can you explain why this is?

Skreeper · Apr 4, 2020

createdtoworship said:
again this is sort of what I find very common in skeptics. Can you explain why this is?

You just have that effect on people.

I have no problem with normal Christians but your ilk just makes my blood boil.

createdtoworship · Apr 4, 2020

Skreeper said:
You just have that effect on people.

I have no problem with normal Christians but your ilk just makes my blood boil.

I feel skeptics are used to people using bad logical arguments, then when someone fires it back at them in a logical manner they don't know what to do with it. I am not tooting my own horn but I see very little logic in most debates done by christians, I presume it make them easy pickins for you and that is why you are here as the other guy admitted to. 'to laugh at the gullible christians' But unfortunately I am a byproduct of dealing with ya'll for 15 years. I don't like who I have become to be honest with ya. it's like I have a split personality. I have to go into logic mode to discuss things here with you guys. And then when I am at church in worship or reading the Bible I relax and my brain can muse. It's like my vacation. I feel bad for a skeptic that has to be in logic mode perpetually as I mention in the OP. And for their fun, they come here and mock christians. I know why you are here, it is very evident. But I wanted you guys to realize it and confess to it. Most don't. But my issue is staying in logic mode for too long. And not taking breaks in the middle. I typically have worship music in my ear all the time while on a computer, that helps me.

VirOptimus · Apr 4, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I feel skeptics are used to people using bad logical arguments, then when someone fires it back at them in a logical manner they don't know what to do with it. I am not tooting my own horn but I see very little logic in most debates done by christians, I presume it make them easy pickins for you and that is why you are here as the other guy admitted to. 'to laugh at the gullible christians' But unfortunately I am a byproduct of dealing with ya'll for 15 years. I don't like who I have become to be honest with ya. it's like I have a split personality. I have to go into logic mode to discuss things here with you guys. And then when I am at church in worship or reading the Bible I relax and my brain can muse. It's like my vacation. I feel bad for a skeptic that has to be in logic mode perpetually as I mention in the OP. And for their fun, they come here and mock christians. I know why you are here, it is very evident. But I wanted you guys to realize it and confess to it. Most don't. But my issue is staying in logic mode for too long. And not taking breaks in the middle. I typically have worship music in my ear all the time while on a computer, that helps me.

I have never seen you use sound logic or even evidence that you are familiar with logic or even how a debate work.

Your mind is set and you are here to preach.

createdtoworship · Apr 4, 2020

VirOptimus said:
I have never seen you use sound logic or even evidence that you are familiar with logic or even how a debate work.

Your mind is set and you are here to preach.

amen brother, I do preach. The power BTW is in the words of God, not in mans words. And thank you for insulting my intelligence yet another time on this thread. You are one of the sources for all my posts regarding the rudeness of skeptics. They are not even trying to deny it now. And that is why I made this thread. Again when Jesus saves us He takes away our unforgiveness and our bitterness, He allows us to feel things again. And as a result we tend to be nicer people. A skeptic does not have that source of love and it comes out in their words and actions, as you show here.

VirOptimus · Apr 4, 2020

createdtoworship said:
amen brother, I do preach. The power BTW is in the words of God, not in mans words. And thank you for insulting my intelligence yet another time on this thread. You are one of the sources for all my posts regarding the rudeness of skeptics. They are not even trying to deny it now. And that is why I made this thread. Again when Jesus saves us He takes away our unforgiveness and our bitterness, He allows us to feel things again. And as a result we tend to be nicer people. A skeptic does not have that source of love and it comes out in their words and actions, as you show here.

There are parts of the forum for preaching, this isnt one of them.

I can only judge you by what you post.

Skreeper · Apr 4, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I typically have worship music in my ear all the time while on a computer, that helps me.

I'm more of a Rammstein guy myself.

createdtoworship said:
feel skeptics are used to people using bad logical arguments

Yes. You are included in that group.

I am fine with Christians telling me they believe on faith. But when you guys start bringing up nonsense and pseudoscience then we have a problem.

createdtoworship · Apr 4, 2020

Skreeper said:
I'm more of a Rammstein guy myself.

Yes. You are included in that group.

I am fine with Christians telling me they believe on faith. But when you guys start bringing up nonsense and pseudoscience then we have a problem.

sir you use faith every day. Do you fully understand the in's and out's of your automobile, the wiring, the ways the fuel injection works, the ratio's and the timing of it all? I don't think you do. But when you turn the key typically it turns on. You don't know for a fact that it will but you can guess it will. You trust it. That is all faith is. You believe the universe popped into existence from nothing? faith! you believe cells sprouted legs and hopped into a tree from nothing? faith! Sir it's not a little bit of faith, it is very much most of your life, operates on faith. Christians are no different.

createdtoworship · Apr 4, 2020

VirOptimus said:
There are parts of the forum for preaching, this isnt one of them.

I can only judge you by what you post.

sir this forum is on ethics and morality and preaching is about that as well. So it's very ok to preach. However getting into extensive apologetics debates (more than a few posts worth), is off topic and needs to go to apologetics areas. But some overlap is okay. Topics vary and conversation naturally overlap with many topics, as long as you don't side track pages and pages it is typically ok to mention apologetics temporarily. Preaching as well. It's normally ok to preach anywhere in the forum. It's the skeptics they are limiting typically, because some christians don't want to be mocked all day for their faith, so they have safe zones.

Larniavc · Apr 4, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I understand that. But then if I could ask you a quick question. Why is it you are on christian forums if you can care less about christianity?

I’m not the person you asked but I come here to be sure that I do not exist in an internet echo chamber.

This is a good place to experience points of view unlike my own.

KCfromNC · Apr 4, 2020

createdtoworship said:
are you sir interested in christian doctrine? Do you believe in Jesus and or/christianity. Or are you here to also make jokes at christians and mock them, as you did in this post?

Interesting attempt to poison the well. I can tell I've made a solid point when a response like this ignores the content of what I wrote and instead attempts to turn it into a personal attack.

Amittai · Apr 4, 2020

CTW, the forum "belongs" equally to all registered members and of course it's natural we all assert a viewpoint.

Everyone else, CTW mentioned Hitler cited Spencer's "survival of the fittest" which is fair to point out in general, though I didn't see why he thought it apposite to his reasoning on this thread.

Amittai · Apr 4, 2020

BigV said:
Now, there is a strange phenomenon that many Atheists/Agnostics have noticed regarding Christians debating science/scientific theories. Typically, Christians demand scientific explanation for everything, down to the minute details.

...

On the other hand, they find absolutely no need to prove the existence of their God and no evidence needed that God created everything. All they have is faith in that God, and somehow, that's a perfectly reasonable explanation for them.

This is because the evidence of God is inside certain individual humans.

This is indirectly closely related to what you stated in your previous post about family backgrounds.

Whether this faith is new to a person or came through the family, CTW's denomination have twisted the message utterly and rendered him unable to convey it or benefit from it.

I support your & others' participating in the thread in the way you have.

The thread is indeed about apologetics and the impact on it of emotional damage and mental exhaustion.

Ken-1122 · Apr 4, 2020

createdtoworship said:
poor people give twice as much as rich people, and they give to charities that serve the poor, for example, shelters.

Poor, Middle Class and Rich: Who Gives and Who Doesn’t?

Poor, Middle Class and Rich: Who Gives and Who Doesn’t?

The link you provided does not support your claim. The link only says the middle class and poor gives a larger percentage of their income to charities; it does not claim they actually give more.

Is a skeptic missing the compassionate part of their being, while only focusing on logic?

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