I'm Right, You're Wrong: Is there ever a right time to say this?

John Helpher said:

Hi all. Yesterday I read about how, when Jesus finished speaking, the people were amazed that he did not speak like the other religious leaders, but rather they recognized some kind of special authority in his words. After participating in a few controversial threads, it occurred to me that in all these disagreements there's a whole lot of Bible verses being quoted, a whole lot of comments about the Holy spirit this, the Law that, and lots of frustration that the issues aren't as clear to others as they are to those making the argument. It makes me feel like, even when I believe I am right, presenting an argument which demonstrates the other person is wrong just comes across as petty arguing and I wonder how I can change that about myself.

However, this video suggests that there really is a time for bluntly stating when we believe we're right and others wrong, though it makes the point that we really do need to be right when doing so. It still seems a little confusing to me so I'd like to hear what others think about the concept. I look forward to some edifying discussion.

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Is it good to say "I'm right, you're wrong" in a truly serious, combative way (as is normally done)?

--> No, not ever, not even once.

But we aren't always perfect. We should just confess/repent when we stumble into such personal fighting with people. And later (soon!) reconcile to them! This is very important. Christ instructed it to us.

And Paul, and Peter said also to be at peace and harmony with others. So, we must say what is right without trying to belittle or put down the person we are talking with.

We could though try to do as Paul did with Peter if such a situation arose -- something truly important, crucial enough.

Notice Paul did not say anything in the text at all like or similar to "you're wrong" -- it's not there:

Paul Opposes Peter

11 But when Cephas [Peter] came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”
Galatians 2 ESV

Notice how nicely Paul says what is right! It does not have a personal put down!

CharismaticLady said:

But did you notice that Peter wasn't allowed to defend himself.

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What was there to defend in his actions?

John Helpher said:

Hi all. Yesterday I read about how, when Jesus finished speaking, the people were amazed that he did not speak like the other religious leaders, but rather they recognized some kind of special authority in his words. After participating in a few controversial threads, it occurred to me that in all these disagreements there's a whole lot of Bible verses being quoted, a whole lot of comments about the Holy spirit this, the Law that, and lots of frustration that the issues aren't as clear to others as they are to those making the argument. It makes me feel like, even when I believe I am right, presenting an argument which demonstrates the other person is wrong just comes across as petty arguing and I wonder how I can change that about myself.

However, this video suggests that there really is a time for bluntly stating when we believe we're right and others wrong, though it makes the point that we really do need to be right when doing so. It still seems a little confusing to me so I'd like to hear what others think about the concept. I look forward to some edifying discussion.

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There is a lot of disagreements regarding scripture. Sometimes you just need to agree to disagree ;o)

John Helpher said:

On the other hand, Jesus did say to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan". Maybe there is a time for harshness.

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I like that moment for its clarity. It's not what I personally call harsh, but harsh is somewhat imprecise a word. It's sharp, clear, true, and a rebuke. Not an attack at all though.

HARK! said:

The way I remember that was "if possible."



I'm not directing this toward you; but here is one example of how Yahshua addressed those who would not accept his truth:

(CLV) Jn 8:44
You are of your father, the Adversary, and the desires of your father you are wanting to |do. He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, for truth is not in him. Whenever he may be speaking a lie, he is speaking of his own, for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I believe there is a time to tell it like it is. It is written that if you go into a town; and you are not received; wipe the dust from your feet a s you leave. It has taken quite some time for this message to sink in with me. I keep having hope, not for the scoffers, but for the bystanders. I believe that it was for the benefit of the bystanders that Yahshua used this language with the scoffers.

It is for the benefit of the bystanders that I have been pushy in the past. What I've learned is that there is no need to be pushy for long. Once you tell the truth, the bystanders will seek to learn more. If they don't; I've learned to count them with the scoffers, and to leave them in YHWH's hands. Our time is too short, to invest great amounts of time with people who aren't very receptive to the truth.

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Seems we agree on all these things.

Depends on the reason it is said.

In most cases it is said out of the spirit of pride... in such a case, no, it is not right. God opposes the proud.

Even IF it is said and is "right" to be said.... it must be spoken in true humility and must only be said in a way that leads one to Jesus, NOT to the one saying. "I'm right."

John Helpher said:

Hi all. Yesterday I read about how, when Jesus finished speaking, the people were amazed that he did not speak like the other religious leaders, but rather they recognized some kind of special authority in his words. After participating in a few controversial threads, it occurred to me that in all these disagreements there's a whole lot of Bible verses being quoted, a whole lot of comments about the Holy spirit this, the Law that, and lots of frustration that the issues aren't as clear to others as they are to those making the argument. It makes me feel like, even when I believe I am right, presenting an argument which demonstrates the other person is wrong just comes across as petty arguing and I wonder how I can change that about myself.

However, this video suggests that there really is a time for bluntly stating when we believe we're right and others wrong, though it makes the point that we really do need to be right when doing so. It still seems a little confusing to me so I'd like to hear what others think about the concept. I look forward to some edifying discussion.

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So, I was thinking about how to make it more clear the difference between clearly saying the Truth...

And the very very different thing of putting someone down (which can happen separately, or even in the same post).

Paul's sentence to Peter in Galatians chapter 2 was helpful as a good example of teaching without putting down.

But how can we get at what is wrong in the "I'm right, you're wrong" statement?....

Here's my try: It usually seems to be saying something like: you're not only incorrect about that, but worse, you are pigheadedly refusing to admit it.

Notice the difference between saying someone is 'being stubborn' for instance (which is not a permanent characterization), in contrast with saying they are just pigheaded (an outright characterization that has no limit in time).


It's the...implied (hinted at) characterization of the other person that is the harmful part.

Contrast to how Paul spoke in Galatians chapter 2 -- he simply clearly said what is right and asked a great question. It was not in any way a personal characterization against Peter generally. (Peter 'stood condemned' in the sense of being guilty of a wrong, not in the sense of Paul judgmentally being condemnatory)

John Helpher said:

On the other hand, Jesus did say to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan". Maybe there is a time for harshness.

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The thought Peter had and then ran with it Christ new where that thought came from. What Christ did is something most of us do not walk in.

I'm right your wrong.. smile now.. based on different Christian forums.. the time is ALWAYS right!

SkyWriting said:

Video has no place in a text based discussion forum.
That's final!
(If you have a few weeks, I'll make a video response.)

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Why? Wouldn't it be much simpler to respond to the video here?

John Helpher said:

Hi all. Yesterday I read about how, when Jesus finished speaking, the people were amazed that he did not speak like the other religious leaders, but rather they recognized some kind of special authority in his words. After participating in a few controversial threads, it occurred to me that in all these disagreements there's a whole lot of Bible verses being quoted, a whole lot of comments about the Holy spirit this, the Law that, and lots of frustration that the issues aren't as clear to others as they are to those making the argument. It makes me feel like, even when I believe I am right, presenting an argument which demonstrates the other person is wrong just comes across as petty arguing and I wonder how I can change that about myself.

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Yes, there is a time. I just had that situation come up in another thread. After a lot of back and forth, I finally realized I had already laid down my completely logical argument, then said what I was hesitant to say...

"Sometimes you are just wrong"

And I'm fine with that. When one is arguing with someone who is defending themselves by tossing illogical arguments around, it's time to end it.

John Helpher said:

Hi all. Yesterday I read about how, when Jesus finished speaking, the people were amazed that he did not speak like the other religious leaders, but rather they recognized some kind of special authority in his words. After participating in a few controversial threads, it occurred to me that in all these disagreements there's a whole lot of Bible verses being quoted, a whole lot of comments about the Holy spirit this, the Law that, and lots of frustration that the issues aren't as clear to others as they are to those making the argument. It makes me feel like, even when I believe I am right, presenting an argument which demonstrates the other person is wrong just comes across as petty arguing and I wonder how I can change that about myself.

However, this video suggests that there really is a time for bluntly stating when we believe we're right and others wrong, though it makes the point that we really do need to be right when doing so. It still seems a little confusing to me so I'd like to hear what others think about the concept. I look forward to some edifying discussion.

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I cannot find a single occasion in the Bible where someone states the words, "You are wrong," but I can find two places where the statement, "You are right," is said. So all the legalists can now argue it is good and just and right and scripture to say only the latter and never the former.


Fundamentally we should endeavor to separate speech and conduct from person. We would also do well to discriminate between fact/falsehood and morality.

"That statement is wrong," versus "You are wrong."
"That statement is incorrect," versus "You are are incorrect."


Decades of research in effective communication has long recognized and well established the use of "I" statements as effective and the use of "You" statements as triggering defensiveness and sabotaging one's own goals of communication (or persuasion). Similarly, the research also shows discussing the topic or event is much more likely than making the discussion personal and making the person the topic instead of the topic the topic. This has been recognized in netiquette with the simple rule" posts, not posters.


So, no, there is never a "right" time to say "I'm right and you're wrong." There's not likely to be an effective time, either.





There is an additional pair of concerns as well. To say a person is wrong is to judge the person, not his or her conduct. It actually avoids the matter of conduct. Since none of us are judges of another's being it is an implicit assuming of the role of God, or ruler over another. The role of "rule" is established by Christ when he gives the body apostles, teachers, preachers, prophets, etc (Eph. 4). Otherwise, the standard scripture asserts among the sheep, or peer relationships, is one of love. Even correction, reproof, and rebuke are to be done in love. Some are prone to appeal to the examples of Jesus or Paul but no one here is Jesus, nor Paul. No one here but the Mods is ruler over another.

But I can objectively identify a factual error and without equivocation identify it as false.

"That statement is incorrect."


And I'll wager if everyone in the forum purposed to apply this for the next month the quality of discourse would be observable and substantive.

Kenny'sID said:

Why? Wouldn't it be much simpler to respond to the video here?

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I don't watch video's in a chat forum. Why do you ask?

Ricky M said:

I'm Right, You're Wrong: Is there ever a right time to say this?

Whenever I'm talking to the wife

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You might want to rethink that stance.
Happy wife, happy life.

As to the topic of this thread, the best you can do is have plenty of scriptural backing-and I don't mean just a piece of poetry or one law directed to ancient Israel.
You need to find other supporting verses but also check that other verses don't add a different slant to the topic and perhaps look at the Hebrew or the Greek as well. Even then people will still disagree because such is the condition of man.

SkyWriting said:

I don't watch video's in a chat forum. Why do you ask?

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I ask because I wanted an answer, and it was you after all who said you'd respond, in a few weeks. Now, how you could respond if you don't watch videos, brings up another problem with your post on top of not just responding here.

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John Helpher said:

Hi all. Yesterday I read about how, when Jesus finished speaking, the people were amazed that he did not speak like the other religious leaders, but rather they recognized some kind of special authority in his words. After participating in a few controversial threads, it occurred to me that in all these disagreements there's a whole lot of Bible verses being quoted, a whole lot of comments about the Holy spirit this, the Law that, and lots of frustration that the issues aren't as clear to others as they are to those making the argument. It makes me feel like, even when I believe I am right, presenting an argument which demonstrates the other person is wrong just comes across as petty arguing and I wonder how I can change that about myself.

However, this video suggests that there really is a time for bluntly stating when we believe we're right and others wrong, though it makes the point that we really do need to be right when doing so. It still seems a little confusing to me so I'd like to hear what others think about the concept. I look forward to some edifying discussion.

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“Someone convinced me to become a Christian with strong logical arguments and by pointing out how they were right and I was wrong!”
-said no one, ever.

the entire concept of Christian apologetics is a lie created by Satan—and fueled by the pride of well meaning believers—designed to push unbelievers away from the gospel.

the flimsy interpretation of the “have a reason for your faith” verse is pathetic. The context and meaning have zero to do with going on debate tours and arguing on Internet forums. It’s really sad. Thankfully God is sovereign and these bozos can’t really prevent people from finding the gospel, but they sure spend a lot of time and money trying.

SkyWriting said:

Paul was the worst sinner that he knew of, so don't sell yourself short.
Plus, he was no student of Jesus.
Plus, people who were, denied they knew him.

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I’m a much worse sinner than Paul.

GaveMeJoy said:

I’m a much worse sinner than Paul.

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It's tough for me to argue with that.