Calvin quote

bling said:

What?? I made no such statement, the impossible cannot be done even by God.. God cannot "make" a being that has always existed?

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Why do you meddle in such nonsense?

Hammster said:

So then God really was powerless to to stop sin. Hopefully He does better in heaven.

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Lol, twist away Chubby checker's.

renniks said:

Like Calvinist do with the middle of Romans 9?
And how am I ingoring the context?
Calvinists emphasis is that this ‘you’ in ‘patient towards you’ refers to the Christians who are the elect of God. The Greek for ‘you’ is humas, accusative plural. Because 2 Peter is addressed to ‘you’ Christians – the elect – does that mean that the ‘you’ only applies to Christians? Do these verses only refer to believers?

• will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires’ (3:3); these scoffers will question the promise of Christ’s second coming;
• ‘Count the patience of our Lord as salvation’ (3;15);
• ‘Take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability’ (3:17).

While these verses are directed to the Christians who have faith, it deals with people who are godless, lawless and unregenerate. Writing to Christians does not prohibit instruction to and about the ungodly.
Who will ‘perish’ according to the biblical mandate? Here are a few biblical examples:

‘The way of the wicked will perish’ (Psalm 1:6);

• Jesus spoke of Galilean sinners, telling his audience, ‘I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish’ (Luke 13:3);
• In John 3:16, Jesus made it clear who would not perish: ‘For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life’;

The sinners and unbelievers are the ones who will perish according to the OT and Jesus.

(b) Who needs to repent? Do those who are believers already need to repent? No, they already have.
The facts are that there is not a word in context of 2 Peter 3:9 that states that God is delaying the second coming of Christ until all of his elect have repented and are in the kingdom. That is just the eisegesis that the Calvinist uses.

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Good Day, Renniks

Your question about 2 peter 3:3, is answered clearly in the text, there are 2 groups of people. you see that in the fuller context that was not posted.

2Pe 3:1 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”

You- beloved (belivers)
They, their - scoffers

Now you can follow the pronouns knowing to which noun (group) they refer.

In Him,

Bill

Hammster said:

I’m not twisting anything. He had no authority to stop sin in the garden, if you are correct. So hopefully there will be something different in Heaven.

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Where do I say he has no authority? I didn't. You are twisting what I said.

BBAS 64 said:

Good Day, Renniks

Your question about 2 peter 3:3, is answered clearly in the text, there are 2 groups of people. you see that in the fuller context that was not posted.

2Pe 3:1 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”

You- beloved (belivers)
They, their - scoffers

Now you can follow the pronouns knowing to which noun (group) they refer.

In Him,

Bill

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You don't answer my questions. Who will perish? Not the believers. Yes, the scoffers need to repent, not the believers.

GoldenKingGaze said:

God wants relationship with free will. He doesn't force people. He knows what we will do, the end before the beginning. He knew the work of the cross would be worthwhile, that some would respond and live in the light of life, because of it. God persuades, He does not force.

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Good Day, GKG

That depends how you define "free-will".. How does he know?

He the work of the cross would be worthwhile because he declared it to be so, therefore it is.

God persuades for what purpose?
What is the mean of His persuasion?
How effective is He in that effort?


In Him,

Bill

Dave L said:

Why do you meddle in such nonsense?

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It all has to do with man's objective while here on earth. The explanation for why we must spend time on lousy tragic place and cannot go directly to heaven? I we don't understand "why" we might not fulfill our objective.

bling said:

It all has to do with man's objective while here on earth. The explanation for why we must spend time on lousy tragic place and cannot go directly to heaven? I we don't understand "why" we might not fulfill our objective.

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Study Calvin, he'll clear it up for you.

Dave L said:

Study Calvin, he'll clear it up for you.

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I try not to waste my time with any dead theologian, since the Bible is lively and full of the truth. Try to find "Calvin's explanation for Matt 18: 21-36 as an example. Will Calvin save you?

renniks said:

You don't answer my questions. Who will perish? Not the believers. Yes, the scoffers need to repent, not the believers.

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Good Day, Renniks

Glad you asked:

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.


We have established, that the pronoun “you” always in this context refers to (beloved) believers. The any (pronoun), and the all (adj) refer to and modify the you in the text.

We see that in John 3:16

YLT - for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

The ones doing the verb believing in him, not perishing. The not perishing is limited to doing "believing".

So how does that couple with repentance?

God though out time will be patient to ensure all believers (gifted faith from God) current and future, are granted the gift of repentance for the explicit purpose of leading them to the knowledge of the truth, ( you can not believe truth you do not know), bring them to their senses and allow them to escape the snare of the devil because they have been captured by him, and need the ability to escape.


Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.


The wonderful purpose and plan of God to by his grace give gifts that by design set the captive free, and effectively with purpose show us the truth with out fail.




In Him,


Bill

bling said:

I try not to waste my time with any dead theologian, since the Bible is lively and full of the truth. Try to find "Calvin's explanation for Matt 18: 21-36 as an example. Will Calvin save you?

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No creed but Christ?

Dave L said:

No creed but Christ?

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The Bible is my Creed.

bling said:

The Bible is my Creed.

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But you recite a creed every time you draw a conclusion about what it says. Why not listen to the better informed instead?

Dave L said:

But you recite a creed every time you draw a conclusion about what it says. Why not listen to the better informed instead?

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I mostly try to answer questions with questions and not "give" my conclusion to others. If and when I do give a conclusion it is after much study, pray, (sometimes fasting), do a lot of self evaluation determining my motive for wanting to know, discussions with other fellow Christians, meditation and really allowing the indwelling holy Spirit to lead me to the most likely alternative. The importance of the answer determines the time and effort I should put into it.
When you quote someone else's conclusion that does not make it a conclusion you can personally defend?

bling said:

I mostly try to answer questions with questions and not "give" my conclusion to others. If and when I do give a conclusion it is after much study, pray, (sometimes fasting), do a lot of self evaluation determining my motive for wanting to know, discussions with other fellow Christians, meditation and really allowing the indwelling holy Spirit to lead me to the most likely alternative. The importance of the answer determines the time and effort I should put into it.
When you quote someone else's conclusion that does not make it a conclusion you can personally defend?

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If it aligns with scripture, it is trustworthy.

Kermos said:

Yes, Revelation 2:20-21 clearly omits that a person controls repentance.

I wrote that Peter used "you" to write of God's chosen persons in 2 Peter 3:9. The "you" includes all people saved and to be saved.

The "you" in John 15:16 refers to all believers in all time. I plan to address this further in subsequent posts.

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“But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:20-21‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Why would Jesus give Jezebel time to repent if He knew that she was not enabled her to repent? Why would He expect her to repent knowing that she has not been allowed to repent? Obviously if Jesus expected her to repent and gave her time to repent she must’ve been enabled to repent. And what reason did He give for her failure to repent? SHE DID NOT WANT TO. If she had not been enabled to repent the cause of her not repenting would not be her desire not to repent it would be her inability to repent. There’s no way that you do not clearly see this. What you are doing is intentionally twisting the word of God in order to protect your pride and your theology. Your ignoring scripture because you don’t want to admit that your wrong. There’s no way possible to read this verse and say that Jezebel didn’t have the opportunity and the choice to repent here. If your pride means more to you than teaching the truth of God’s word then there’s no reason to continue any further discussion with you.

Dave L said:

If it aligns with scripture, it is trustworthy.

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How do you know: everything Calvin wrote aligns with scripture and even if it did why not go back to what he was trying to align with and skip Calvin?