Are those who deny eternal punishment doomed to Hell?

Der Alte · Apr 3, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
On our hearts, der Alter, on hearts of flesh.

Nonsense! So I'm supposed to trust the "heart knowledge" of every heterodox religious group that comes along? Eeny, meeny, mine, mo which one should I choose; LDS, JW, OP UPCI, INC, WWCG etc. etc? If it is not clearly written in the Bible I ain't biting. Try to con some other poor sucker.

Shrewd Manager · Apr 3, 2020

Der Alter said:
All great scripture for the repentant being saved in this life. Please show me some verses which show unrepentant sinners being saved after death?

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment (Heb 9:27)

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. (Rev 1:18)

Hm, whassat? The death, the judgment, the keys, the life, the Christ. It's got all the ingredients der Alter, so let's start cookin'.

Shrewd Manager · Apr 3, 2020

Der Alter said:
Try to con some other poor sucker.

Con-quering all in Christ by the sword of the spirit that slays all foes with the holy gospel.

Der Alte · Apr 3, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment (Heb 9:27)
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. (Rev 1:18)
Hm, whassat? The death, the judgment, the keys, the life, the Christ. It's got all the ingredients der Alter, so let's start cookin'.

Now show me one verse, 2 or more would be better, where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, is speaking, not the words of a OT prophet, or a NT disciples, which unequivocally states that unrepentant sinners will be saved after death.

Shrewd Manager said:
Con-quering all in Christ by the sword of the spirit that slays all foes with the holy gospel.

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Not the cerebral flatulence of every heterodox teaching that comes along. See first response above.

Shrewd Manager · Apr 3, 2020

Der Alter said:
Now show me one verse, 2 or more would be better, where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, is speaking, not the words of a OT prophet, or a NT disciples, which unequivocally states that unrepentant sinners will be saved after death.

If there was something 'unequivocal' it wouldn't be a hope and faith now would it der Alter. Do try to follow the bouncing ball.

How about this one? Fear not.

Der Alter said:
the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Ah, so the sword that comes from the mouth to slay your evil kings in Rev 19:21 - could it be the gospel truth? Are we in the figurative realm now der Alter (shock, horror!)

Der Alter said:
the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The heart has thoughts and intents? Surely not, what does Gray's Anatomy have to say on that?

Der Alte · Apr 3, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
If there was something 'unequivocal' it wouldn't be a hope and faith now would it der Alter. Do try to follow the bouncing ball.

UR rubbish. Jesus said many thing unequivocally. e.g.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ah, so the sword that comes from the mouth to slay your evil kings in Rev 19:21 - could it be the gospel truth? Are we in the figurative realm now der Alter (shock, horror!)

Totally illogical rubbish. It appears that it is impossible to have a reasoned, rational discussion with you.

The heart has thoughts and intents? Surely not, what does Gray's Anatomy have to say on that?

Still incapable of understanding "If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense." You are intent on presenting nonsense.
Here some examples of Jesus speaking figuratively. Herod was not literally a fox when Jesus called him one. Simon was not literally a stone when Jesus called him one. James and John were not literally sons of thunder when Jesus called them that. Now do you want to have a reasoned, rational discussion or do you want to continue posting meaningless rubbish? This post indicates that you are not capable of having a reasoned, rational discussion.

Contenders Edge · Apr 3, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Not really fear then.

Do you think those who deny eternal punishment are doomed to hell?

It is fear, but a reverent fear. But as far as those who deny eternal punishment, even if they themselves are not doomed to Hell, provided that they have placed their trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sins, they are still leading multitudes of lost souls into a false sense of security and to their destruction, and they are bound to suffer consequences for that. What those consequences are, I don't know, but I fear that they may be taking a gamble with their own souls.

Contenders Edge · Apr 3, 2020

FineLinen said:
You poor dear lad, you cannot be serious! ! !

Not only is it the flow of St. Paul's articulation to the Romans it is completely relevant with a capital "R"!

Romans 11

Questions =

1. What part of the reconciling of the the world is excluded? v.15

2. What part of all/ pas Israel shall be saved are you missing? v. 20

3. What part of the radical all/pas is NOT disobedient? v.32

4. What part of the radical all of pas is shut up to disobedience? v.32

5. What is the results of this shutting up of the all? v.32

6. What does ta pante mean? v.36

Source, Guide, Goal of ta pante

I refuse to be diverted to a topic unrelated to this thread this thread. To best address that passage, it would have to be examined in light of the accompanying verses before and after it which would take us off topic.

Contenders Edge · Apr 3, 2020

FineLinen said:
My young friend, I hate to disclose that few of those who heard the words of the Master of Reconciliation understood what He was speaking, including His hand picked disciples!

"Then opened He their understanding..."

But most of us do not know Greek or Hebrew which is why the Bible was translated into various different languages in order that we might understand.

Contenders Edge · Apr 3, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear boy, we are all wicked and unbelieving, the good, the bad, and the ugly. But the God of mercy, love, & transformation refuses to leave one rascal as He finds them!

He takes the good & makes them gooder.

He takes the bad & transforms them in His glory.

He takes the ugly & makes them beautiful,

Our God is the God of unlimited transforming LOVE

Only if they want to be transformed.

FineLinen · Apr 3, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
It is fear, but a reverent fear. But as far as those who deny eternal punishment, even if they themselves are not doomed to Hell, provided that they have placed their trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sins, they are still leading multitudes of lost souls into a false sense of security and to their destruction, and they are bound to suffer consequences for that. What those consequences are, I don't know, but I fear that they may be taking a gamble with their own souls.

Dear C.E.: You are NOT paying attention!

There is no such animal in Abba's Barn called "eternal punishment", NONE.

In His Barn is aionios kolasis, but NO aidios timoria.

I cannot gamble with dice, lotteries or anything associated with chance.

The placement of ones being into the care of a Magnificent Caregiver is rooted in a sure outcome!

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
It is fear, but a reverent fear. But as far as those who deny eternal punishment, even if they themselves are not doomed to Hell, provided that they have placed their trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sins, they are still leading multitudes of lost souls into a false sense of security and to their destruction, and they are bound to suffer consequences for that. What those consequences are, I don't know, but I fear that they may be taking a gamble with their own souls.

That's the typical Damnationist position.
Claiming that if people don't have a gun to their head (the threat of hell) that they will NOT follow Jesus. AND that those who do not subscribe to a forever burning hell are somehow responsible for sending souls there due to providing "a false sense of security".

This is pathetic on so many levels. (sigh)

Der Alte · Apr 3, 2020

Saint Steven said:
There is plenty. Here's just a glimpse.
Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

FineLinen said:
...

FineLinen said:
Dear C.E.: You are NOT paying attention!
There is no such animal in Abba's Barn called "eternal punishment", NONE.
In His Barn is aionios kolasis, but NO aidios timoria.
I cannot gamble with dice, lotteries or anything associated with chance.
The placement of ones being into the care of a Magnificent Caregiver is rooted in a sure outcome!

I have proved you both wrong, in this thread, quoting only scripture no scholars, no experts, no lexicons.
And neither of you has even tried to refute my posts.
Universal Reconciliation is a false teaching and is based on out of context proof texts and spamming endless quotes from supposed experts..

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
Only if they want to be transformed.

Jesus said everyone will be salted with fire. This will be a transformative experience.
For me and everyone else, which will include you too. (oh joy) James 1:2-3
You want to be transformed, right?

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

FineLinen · Apr 3, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Jesus said everyone will be salted with fire. This will be a transformative experience.
For me and everyone else, which will include you too. (oh joy) James 1:2-3
You want to be transformed, right?

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

Dear Saint: The God of Glory dwells in fire. He IS Fire where we dwell with Him. Yes, Saint, this is not an aspect of our Abba, not a characteristic, this is His very essence!

We shall be changed for we shall see Him as He is.

nolidad · Apr 3, 2020

FineLinen said:
It is evident you don't "got it", Noli!

αιωνιος = aiōnios

αιδιος = aidios

And both are synonymous which you refuse to acknowledge! Still awaiting why we should be lieve you instead of thousands of believing greek scholars who love God!

nolidad · Apr 3, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
For the most part, I agree, but without the warning of eternal torment, the fear of God is less and the more comfortable men will be in their sins.

I fully understand what you are saying! And yes, "scaring the hell out of people", is a method of evangelsim that some people need. But remember it is the good news of Jesus death, burial and physical resurrection that the Holy Spirit empowers in a persons life to believe that saves the individual!.

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear Saint: The God of Glory dwells in fire. He IS Fire where we dwell with Him. Yes, Saint, this is not an aspect of our Abba, not a characteristic, this is His very essence!

We shall be changed for we shall see Him as He is.

Heaven is probably at the center of our solar system. (assuming the earth is not flat)

FineLinen · Apr 3, 2020

nolidad said:
And both are synonymous which you refuse to acknowledge! Still awaiting why we should be lieve you instead of thousands of believing greek scholars who love God!

You are correct, Noli!

I refuse to accept that!

nolidad said:
And both are synonymous which you refuse to acknowledge! Still awaiting why we should be lieve you instead of thousands of believing greek scholars who love God!

Correct! I refuse to accept two distinctly different words are the same in meaning or outcome!

Our God is the ONLY One who is eternal, that word in koine is aidios. He alone is aidios.

Again, the apostle St. John defines aionios so clearly for us in 9 brief words. "This IS zoe aionios that we might know You."

Again: the foundation of the adjective aionios is firmly rooted in aion. There are many, many aions, none of which are aidios, NOT!

The Bible Eons=

THE TEACHING OF THE SCRIPTURES about the eons provides answers to frustrating questions concerning the meaning of human existence. God’s purpose in creating man, and God’s purpose of the eons are inseparably related. Many are unfamiliar with this important subject because the facts have been concealed by incorrect and misleading translations of the Bible from the original languages into English.

FACTS REVEALED CONCERNING THE EONS

The eons of the Bible With Concordance, Gods purpose of the eons. 1

TIME AND ETERNITY

A Biblical Study

TIME AND ETERNITY: A Biblical Study

αιωνιος = aiōnios

αιδιος = aidios

FineLinen · Apr 3, 2020

Please talk to Noli, Dr. Martin. He is under the delusion that aion is eternal.

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d050101.htm 6

Part 1

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d041101.htm 1

Part 2

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d041201.htm 1

Are those who deny eternal punishment doomed to Hell?

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