Are those who deny eternal punishment doomed to Hell?

Saint Steven said:

Since when is that a requirement for salvation, and how are such things measured?

Did you have a "real desire" to follow Christ? (who can say?) Could your desire have been MORE "real"? (I suppose so) Was it real enough to save you? (who can say?) Was the desire "real" at all? (who knows?) How are such things measured?

Better to measure our salvation by the only thing we can measure, the finished work of Christ - ON OUR BEHALF.

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In which we have to place our trust for our salvation. If we refuse, then there is only damnation.

Contenders Edge said:

Does not the scripture command us to fear God?

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If you love the archaic quality of King James English court language, sure.

Contenders Edge said:

In which we have to place our trust for our salvation. If we refuse, then there is only damnation.

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Is that what this means?

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Contenders Edge said:

No, it is a very true, very well founded, and a completely appropriate accusation as there is no other reason for why one would deny that the wicked and unbelieving are subject to eternal torment.

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Is it really justice when you deserve it as much as they do? Why should you get off while they suffer?

Saint Steven said:

So the end justifies the means?

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Are you calling God unjust?

Saint Steven said:

If you love the archaic quality of King James English court language, sure.

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That is not the only version that commands us to fear God.

Saint Steven said:

Is it really justice when you deserve it as much as they do? Why should you get off while they suffer?

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I only got off because I relied upon the grace by which we are saved through our faith in Christ. They did not and that is why they suffer.

Saint Steven said:

Is that what this means?

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

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For the third time, you have taken this passage out of its proper context to divert from the topic.

Contenders Edge said:

That is not the only version that commands us to fear God.

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Define fear.

Saint Steven said:

On the contrary.
I claim that God is love. What are you claiming? (that he hates his enemies)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Really?

If you had the choice between going to the gas chamber at Auschwitz or the horrors of an eternal hell, which would you choose?

Even the worst of humanity pales in comparison to what you are accusing God of. (for shame)

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But you cannot separate the love of God from His justice.

Contenders Edge said:

For the third time, you have taken this passage out of its proper context to divert from the topic.

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If I do it again do you promise to put me on IGNORE?

Saint Steven said:

So the end justifies the means?

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The end was directed by Jesus.
And I have conclusively shown from scripture alone, no lexicons and no scholars, that κολασιν/kolasin means punishment and αιωνιον/aionion means eternal.

Saint Steven said:

Define fear.

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Not in the sense of terror, but in the sense of having reverence; acknowledging His ultimate supremacy and authority over all creation, that He is the definer of what is right and wrong and good and evil and being well aware of the consequences that come with going contrary to that which He has commanded and decreed.

Contenders Edge said:

But you cannot separate the love of God from His justice.

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Your definition of justice is not love. God is love.
We are told that to love our enemies is godly character.
Therefore God must love his enemies. If not, we make him out to be worse than a pagan or a tax collector.

Matthew 5:44-48
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Contenders Edge said:

Not in the sense of terror, but in the sense of having reverence; acknowledging His ultimate supremacy and authority over all creation, that He is the definer of what is right and wrong and good and evil and being well aware of the consequences that come with going contrary to that which He has commanded and decreed.

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Not really fear then.

Do you think those who deny eternal punishment are doomed to hell?

Contenders Edge said:

A passage of scripture you have taken out of its proper context in order to make appear relevant to the topic of this thread which, when read in its proper context, it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

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You poor dear lad, you cannot be serious! ! !

Not only is it the flow of St. Paul's articulation to the Romans it is completely relevant with a capital "R"!

Romans 11

Questions =

1. What part of the reconciling of the the world is excluded? v.15

2. What part of all/ pas Israel shall be saved are you missing? v. 20

3. What part of the radical all/pas is NOT disobedient? v.32

4. What part of the radical all of pas is shut up to disobedience? v.32

5. What is the results of this shutting up of the all? v.32

6. What does ta pante mean? v.36

Source, Guide, Goal of ta pante

Contenders Edge said:

They did not need such aid because it was in their tongue scriptures were written.

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My young friend, I hate to disclose that few of those who heard the words of the Master of Reconciliation understood what He was speaking, including His hand picked disciples!

"Then opened He their understanding..."

FineLinen said:

Dear Noli: Never tire in keeping us ignorant sinners straight.

The chains of the Aidios God are eternal & they remain aidios/ eternal until the mighty day of our God when He sets the all, the ta pante right!

The ONLY other reference to aidios is again where it rightly belongs in the Aidios One who ALONE is aidios!

Aionios = everlasting = rooted in aion = age

Aidios = eternal = rooted in the Aidios God ALONE.

αιωνιος = aiōnios

αιδιος = aidios

“It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance–the forgiveness of our offences–so abundant was God’s grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the mystery of His will. And this is in harmony with God’s merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it-- the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you…”

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“Agelong” The word for “age” is “αιων” which is part of the word “αιωνιος”.

But looking at the word in context, “lasting” fits all contexts best.

In Matthew 25:46 where the goats are to be sent into “αἰωνιος κολασις”.

If we agree that “κολασις” means “correction”, then what would “eternal correction” mean? If a person were corrected eternally, the correction would never be completed, and thus the person would not be corrected at all!

Fortunately “αἰωνιος” DOES NOT mean “eternal”.

Indeed, it never means “eternal”.

It is the adjectival form of the noun “αἰων”, which means “age”. So, I suppose we could translate “αἰωνιος” as “agey”, but as far as I know, the latter is not an English word.

The word was used in koine Greek (the Greek spoken from 300 B.C. to 300 A.D.) to refer to anything which is enduring. The word was used by Diodorus Siculus to describe the stone used to build a wall. The word seems to have been used as meaning “lasting” or “durable”.

Josephus in “The Wars of the Jews” book 6, states that Jonathan was condemned to “αἰωνιος” imprisonment. Yet that prison sentence lasted only three years.

But the clincher comes from the Homily of the Epistle of Saint Paul to the Ephesians, written by Chrysostom. He wrote that the kingdom of Satan “is αἰωνιος (agey), in other words it will cease with the present αἰων (age).” So Chrysostum apparently believed that “αἰωνιος” meant exactly the opposite to “eternal” ---- that is “ lasting” but in this case also “temporary.”

Now back to Matthew 25:46 where the goats are to be sent into “αἰωνιος κολασις”. If we agree that “κολασις” means “correction”, then what would “eternal correction” mean? If a person were corrected eternally, the correction would never be completed, and thus the person would not be corrected at all!

Fortunately “αἰωνιος” DOES NOT mean “eternal”.

Indeed, it never means “eternal”. It is the adjectival form of the noun “αἰων”, which means “age”. So, I suppose we could translate “αἰωνιος” as “agey”, but as far as I know, the latter is not an English word.

The word was used in koine Greek (the Greek spoken from 300 B.C. to 300 A.D.) to refer to anything which is enduring. The word was used by Diodorus Siculus to describe the stone used to build a wall. The word seems to have been used as meaning “lasting” or “durable”.

Josephus in “The Wars of the Jews” book 6, states that Jonathan was condemned to “αἰωνιος” imprisonment. Yet that prison sentence lasted only three years.

But the clincher comes from the Homily of the Epistle of Saint Paul to the Ephesians, written by Chrysostom. He wrote that the kingdom of Satan “is αἰωνιος (agey), in other words it will cease with the present αἰων (age).” So Chrysostum apparently believed that “αἰωνιος” meant exactly the opposite to “eternal” ---- that is “ lasting” but in this case also “temporary.” -St. Paidion-

Contenders Edge said:

No, it is a very true, very well founded, and a completely appropriate accusation as there is no other reason for why one would deny that the wicked and unbelieving are subject to eternal torment.

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Dear boy, we are all wicked and unbelieving, the good, the bad, and the ugly. But the God of mercy, love, & transformation refuses to leave one rascal as He finds them!

He takes the good & makes them gooder.

He takes the bad & transforms them in His glory.

He takes the ugly & makes them beautiful,

Our God is the God of unlimited transforming LOVE

Der Alter said:

No argument. Where is it written that God does this in hell or the lake of fire?

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On our hearts, der Alter, on hearts of flesh.