The pale horse has come

Jesus_is_Saint

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Revelation 6:8, NIV: "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

Will Jesus protect us from the curse?
 

Dan1988

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Revelation 6:8, NIV: "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

Will Jesus protect us from the curse?
The book of revelation describes some horrible things that will come upon the world, just before the return of Christ.
Jesus said, not to fear those who can kill the body. Jesus is protecting His people, believers are safe in His hands.
We all have to die, so it's how we die that matters more than when we die. The second death is the scary one, it's not annihilation. It's a spiritual death, when God removes His grace and leaves unbelievers to wallow in their sin for all eternity.
 
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DamianWarS

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Revelation 6:8, NIV: "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

Will Jesus protect us from the curse?
covid won't be that pale horse killing 2 billion people.
 
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Hazelelponi

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This coronavirus isn't it...

the black death? Yes. (about 25% of the population on earth was killed as a result)

This virus with, at best, a 4% mortality rate among those infected? No. And that's exaggerating the mortality rates and still doesn't come close.
 
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ZNP

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This coronavirus isn't it...

the black death? Yes. (about 25% of the population on earth was killed as a result)

This virus with, at best, a 4% mortality rate among those infected? No. And that's exaggerating the mortality rates and still doesn't come close.
True, but it is the first global pause we have ever seen. So whereas the fires in California and Australia were local, affecting a large state and a large continent, this thing affects the entire world. The birth pains have gotten real.
 
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Hazelelponi

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True, but it is the first global pause we have ever seen. So whereas the fires in California and Australia were local, affecting a large state and a large continent, this thing affects the entire world. The birth pains have gotten real.

Huh? How did we get to brush fires?
 
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ZNP

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Huh? How did we get to brush fires?
The analogy is very strong. the way we deal with a brush fire is get rid of the fuel, the way we deal with the pandemic is try and remove the fuel (people).

We are told that creation is groaning until the appearance of the sons of God. We are also told that the end of the age is similar to a woman giving birth to the man child and that these trials and tribulations are like birth pains.

So whether it is the virus or the fires or the floods or the hurricanes it is a natural process of creation groaning, and just like birth pains it becomes more and more insistent until they cannot be ignored. If you lived in California or Australia you couldn't ignore the fires. But the rest of the world could. But now, we have a situation that no one can ignore.
 
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The book of revelation describes some horrible things that will come upon the world, just before the return of Christ.
Jesus said, not to fear those who can kill the body. Jesus is protecting His people, believers are safe in His hands.
We all have to die, so it's how we die that matters more than when we die. The second death is the scary one, it's not annihilation. It's a spiritual death, when God removes His grace and leaves unbelievers to wallow in their sin for all eternity.

Hi dan,

Just to add my 2¢ worth...

While the book of the Revelation of Jesus does describe some things that will be happening as the end draws near, it has long been my belief that it also describes things happening throughout the 'times of the Gentiles'. It is my understanding that the scene that John describes, where there is great weeping because no one was found to open the scroll, came pretty much immediately after Jesus ascended into heaven. That is when Jesus was in heaven and one would have looked to him and stopped the weeping and declared, "Look, the Lamb of God. He is worthy to open the scroll." Then Jesus begins tearing off the seals that bind the scroll.

So, I think that at the very least, the first four seals have been removed. The white horse has been galloping throughout the earth since the day Pentecost described in the book of Acts. That is when, according to Jesus' own words, the Holy Spirit was released upon the earth to promote and propel the gospel of God's salvation among men. That is the white horse sent out to conquer.

I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

Then the other three horses were soon released. The pale horse has been riding throughout the earth for likely near 2,000 years now. Spreading his death and destruction of men, by strife, famine and plague.

I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Then, at the opening of the fifth seal, we are told that there is a time of waiting. So, we may be standing in the days between the fifth and sixth seal now. I say that because I'm unable to equate the explanation of things going on at the opening of the sixth seal with anything that has, as yet, actually happened in the reality of the world's enduring.

Just something worth considering. But we do know that the explanation of the woman with child who is sent into the desert, has already happened. We do know that Satan has already gone after the saints who adhere to their faith in Jesus. We also know that the letters to the seven churches describes a time that has already passed. So, there is much in the Revelation of Jesus, and I believe that it covers his revelation from his birth until his return, and then the final judgment and promise of God being received by His children.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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Samaritan Woman

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Revelation 6:8, NIV: "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

Will Jesus protect us from the curse?


This occurs post rapture so Christians won't even be around for this.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Revelation 6:8, NIV: "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

Will Jesus protect us from the curse?

Notice the order of the horsemen, the first horseman rides a white horse in conquest; following Conquest is a rider who comes with War, and following War comes the rider who brings Pestilence, and finally the fourth who rides the pale horse here, Death with the Grave following close behind.

Conquest brings war and conflict, which brings disease, famine, suffering, pestilence, and then people die.

This has been the pattern throughout history. It is not something new that should come only in the future; this is the world in which we live. Where men seek to destroy other men. Nations rise against nations, kingdoms against kingdoms. The kings of the earth rise up against one another, and it is the people who suffer their conflicts in pursuits of power and glory.

So we look not to the kingdoms of this world as our hope and refuge, but to that Kingdom which shall never perish, God's Kingdom.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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miamited

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This occurs post rapture so Christians won't even be around for this.

Hi SW,

Just for the record, that's not my understanding of the timeline provided in the Revelation of Jesus. The rapture isn't even mentioned until waaaaay back in chapter 14.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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The man on the white horse in the breaking of the 1st seal is believed by many in Christianity to be the Antichrist. This rider has a bow (i.e. a bow that no doubt shoots arrows). Ephesians 6:16 says, "Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked."

I see these darts as fiery arrows.
This rider was given a crown. Meaning, he was given a kingdom to rule. He went forth to conquer.

The second seal was the taking of peace from the Earth. There were many times in our history where we not always at war with everyone, and generally the world was working peacefully for the most part. There were not always wars. In fact, there were two world wars. Which one was it?

Also, each seal is progressive and plays upon one another. That is how they work. Granted, I could be wrong, and this whole virus thing could be the economic global devastation and famine coming upon the world as mentioned being the 3rd seal in Revelation. The most important thing to do is get your heart right with the Lord (if your heart is not right with the Lord). The most important thing to do is to love God and others more than ever (during these dark times). Look for the return of Christ at any hour.
 
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ZNP

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The most important thing to do is get your heart right with the Lord (if your heart is not right with the Lord). The most important thing to do is to love God and others more than ever (during these dark times). Look for the return of Christ at any hour.

Can't stress that enough. Kind of pointless to know all mysteries and yet not receive the Lord. The key point in Revelation is that the end of the age is a reaping, a harvest, and we will all stand before the judgement seat.
 
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Can't stress that enough. Kind of pointless to know all mysteries and yet not receive the Lord. The key point in Revelation is that the end of the age is a reaping, a harvest, and we will all stand before the judgement seat.

I believe the best way for us to have an assurance that we know the Lord is if we keep His commandments (1 John 2:3) (cf. 1 John 2:4).

Note: I am not talking about keeping the Law of Moses or the Old Testament Law like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, etc.; I believe we are to follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers.

For John 1:17 says that the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
 
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The man on the white horse in the breaking of the 1st seal is believed by many in Christianity to be the Antichrist. This rider has a bow (i.e. a bow that no doubt shoots arrows). Ephesians 6:16 says, "Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked."

I see these darts as fiery arrows.
This rider was given a crown. Meaning, he was given a kingdom to rule. He went forth to conquer.

Hi BH,

I agree that's generally been the way that many bible scholars have understood the rider on the white horse. It could be, but when I consider the timeline and 'when' that time in heaven that John writes about could likely have happened, it would have been immediately after Jesus ascended into heaven. Jesus would have been found qualified to open rip off the seals of the scroll of God's judgment as soon as he had ascended back into heaven. It is also the very first thing that John tells us about, after the letters. So, if there is any chronological timeline in the Revelation, this release of the horses could have been immediately after Jesus ascended to heaven and was found worthy, because of his sinless life and sacrifice, to open the scroll.

As I look around the world, I see the things that each horseman was responsible for, happening. So I'm fairly confident in my understanding that the four horsemen of the apocalypse, as they are referred to, are already loosed and roaming the earth. The question then becomes. 'who is the rider on the white horse?' Is he a good or bad player in all of this. He held a bow and was given a crown. You say the bow denotes war. I see that in the sword of the fourth horsemen. You say that the giving of the crown denotes that he was given a kingdom. I agree with that. However, Jesus spoke of having a kingdom also. Further, the first thing that really happened on the earth, after Jesus ascended, was that the Holy Spirit was released to conquer the hearts of men through the proclamation of the gospel. So, there are ways in which it could be understood that this white horse and his rider could be the release of the gospel and it's purpose to conquer the hearts of wicked men to build a kingdom of priests and saints for God.

I just believe in a loving God, and while the other three horsemen seem to obviously not be for the good of man, I believe that God would have released the good to go before the wicked. Just as He did in describing the consequences to Israel of following the law, He explained all the good that would come from obedience, before telling them of the suffering and sorrow that would come from disobedience. Similarly, I think that God may have released the good news of salvation before He released the bad news of the other three horsemen.

John Hagee writes about the white horse: The white horse carries a rider who conquers the earth, greedily running rough shod over all who stand in his way with his out-of-control lust for power. He is a great deceiver, a dictator, and a living devil.

However, a lot of those descriptors that he uses aren't really found in the prophecy. The prophecy merely says that the rider has a sword and a crown. Is it not possible that the Holy Spirit has the Sword of the Spirit and the crown of righteousness? That he is the one first released upon the earth at Pentecost to conquer the hearts of men with the gospel? Jesus inferred that the Holy Spirit was not among us until a later time when he was to be released to us upon Jesus' arrival in heaven. Discounting all of the descriptors that John Hagee throws out to sow fear in our hearts regarding this horseman, I'm not sure that the actual description is necessarily so fearful.

Just as we hear about the rapture coming before things get really tough in the days of the great tribulation, I'm not so sure that's a true representation of all that the Scriptures teach. Many, many people are decided today that there's going to be a rapture and then a time for more to come into the kingdom of God, based on the 'Left Behind' series. But chapter 14 of the Revelation doesn't paint that picture to me. Jesus is going to come once!!! In chapter 14 we read of one like the son of man, (a Scriptural reference to Jesus) who is going to first harvest the earth. Then pretty much immediately after that, the second angel comes and harvests those remaining and throws them into the winepress of God's fiery judgment. I believe that Jesus returns once; takes those who are his out of harms way, and God's wrath falls upon all those remaining.

Just my 2¢ worth.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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Dan1988

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Hi dan,

Just to add my 2¢ worth...

While the book of the Revelation of Jesus does describe some things that will be happening as the end draws near, it has long been my belief that it also describes things happening throughout the 'times of the Gentiles'. It is my understanding that the scene that John describes, where there is great weeping because no one was found to open the scroll, came pretty much immediately after Jesus ascended into heaven. That is when Jesus was in heaven and one would have looked to him and stopped the weeping and declared, "Look, the Lamb of God. He is worthy to open the scroll." Then Jesus begins tearing off the seals that bind the scroll.

So, I think that at the very least, the first four seals have been removed. The white horse has been galloping throughout the earth since the day Pentecost described in the book of Acts. That is when, according to Jesus' own words, the Holy Spirit was released upon the earth to promote and propel the gospel of God's salvation among men. That is the white horse sent out to conquer.

I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

Then the other three horses were soon released. The pale horse has been riding throughout the earth for likely near 2,000 years now. Spreading his death and destruction of men, by strife, famine and plague.

I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Then, at the opening of the fifth seal, we are told that there is a time of waiting. So, we may be standing in the days between the fifth and sixth seal now. I say that because I'm unable to equate the explanation of things going on at the opening of the sixth seal with anything that has, as yet, actually happened in the reality of the world's enduring.

Just something worth considering. But we do know that the explanation of the woman with child who is sent into the desert, has already happened. We do know that Satan has already gone after the saints who adhere to their faith in Jesus. We also know that the letters to the seven churches describes a time that has already passed. So, there is much in the Revelation of Jesus, and I believe that it covers his revelation from his birth until his return, and then the final judgment and promise of God being received by His children.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
Thanks Ted, your 2 cents is worth $2,000 here. I have to admit that I've struggled with the book of revelation. I've read all kinds of articles about this book and some have left me even more confused.
I appreciate your take on it above, it makes good sense. I love the whole Bible from cover to cover and I have no doubt that it's God's infallible, inspired Word. It's so rich and full of wisdom, we could easily spend our whole life studying it and there would still be much more to learn.

Many pastors avoid the book of revelation, to their own detriment. They should preach the whole counsel of God, and allow scripture to interpret scripture.
 
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Thanks Ted, your 2 cents is worth $2,000 here. I have to admit that I've struggled with the book of revelation. I've read all kinds of articles about this book and some have left me even more confused.
I appreciate your take on it above, it makes good sense. I love the whole Bible from cover to cover and I have no doubt that it's God's infallible, inspired Word. It's so rich and full of wisdom, we could easily spend our whole life studying it and there would still be much more to learn.

Many pastors avoid the book of revelation, to their own detriment. They should preach the whole counsel of God, and allow scripture to interpret scripture.

Hi dan,

Well, if you're interested in reading a book that I think is fairly complete and concise as regards the timing of the rapture, I'd suggest you look at 'The Sign' by Robert Van Kampen. He does a fairly exhaustive discussion of the many references in the Scriptures regarding it. Some people have said that he's a quack, but then we must remember that most people thought that John the Baptist was some quack out in the wilderness in his day. Especially before Jesus came to verify his ministry. I'm not recommending his writings to supplant the Scriptures, but on this subject, he makes a lot of sense and he has, as I say, done a fairly exhaustive study on the subject of the timing of the rapture.

As I wrote previously, the 'Left Behind' series was very popular among the christian community. But I really don't believe the chronology is correct that Jesus is going to rapture a group of people from the earth, then allow some period of time for some world strife to continue in which others will come to know the Lord, and then, somehow at some time, come back to get them before God looses His wrath upon the unrighteous.

The Scriptures tell us that we are not destined for God's wrath. We are not children of God's wrath. But the days of great tribulation are not the same as the days of God's wrath. The great tribulation is brought on by wicked men against the whole world and especially against the children of God. They are days, as Jesus described, that will be like none other that has ever been experienced before upon the earth nor will ever be again. but, unlike some others, I don't find the assurance that they seem to have found that believers living in those days, won't go through those days. God speaks of the elect who apparently would fall, if God had not cut short those days. How can that be, if the elect aren't even there?

Anyway, I'm not going to bore you with my understanding and all the proofs that I find meaningful on the subject. If you're interested, look into the book. https://www.amazon.com/Sign-Third-Revised-Robert-Kampen/dp/1581342322 Of course you may want to get a used copy as a new one is rather pricey. I found some used ones for under $5, but there is a shipping fee. I believe that it is worth noting, to address those who say the author's a quack, that it is published by a christian book publisher.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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ZNP

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The WSJ had an article about coronavirus being America's Great Awakening, paving the way for the gospel. It also underscores the need for three things:

1. The virus is too big a problem for one country to solve, it requires a new world order.

2. The virus shows the benefit of a digital currency that the entire world can use without spreading germs and without worry about how a localized issue could disrupt global markets.

3. We need a unified response from the entire world, having each state or each country have their own response won't work.

I do believe this is what makes this pandemic unique. Sure, 1918 was every bit as big but the potential for a worldwide response did not exist, perhaps it was the motivation behind what ultimately became the UN, also the potential for a worldwide currency or a digital currency didn't exist either.
 
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Dan1988

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Hi dan,

Well, if you're interested in reading a book that I think is fairly complete and concise as regards the timing of the rapture, I'd suggest you look at 'The Sign' by Robert Van Kampen. He does a fairly exhaustive discussion of the many references in the Scriptures regarding it. Some people have said that he's a quack, but then we must remember that most people thought that John the Baptist was some quack out in the wilderness in his day. Especially before Jesus came to verify his ministry. I'm not recommending his writings to supplant the Scriptures, but on this subject, he makes a lot of sense and he has, as I say, done a fairly exhaustive study on the subject of the timing of the rapture.

As I wrote previously, the 'Left Behind' series was very popular among the christian community. But I really don't believe the chronology is correct that Jesus is going to rapture a group of people from the earth, then allow some period of time for some world strife to continue in which others will come to know the Lord, and then, somehow at some time, come back to get them before God looses His wrath upon the unrighteous.

The Scriptures tell us that we are not destined for God's wrath. We are not children of God's wrath. But the days of great tribulation are not the same as the days of God's wrath. The great tribulation is brought on by wicked men against the whole world and especially against the children of God. They are days, as Jesus described, that will be like none other that has ever been experienced before upon the earth nor will ever be again. but, unlike some others, I don't find the assurance that they seem to have found that believers living in those days, won't go through those days. God speaks of the elect who apparently would fall, if God had not cut short those days. How can that be, if the elect aren't even there?

Anyway, I'm not going to bore you with my understanding and all the proofs that I find meaningful on the subject. If you're interested, look into the book. https://www.amazon.com/Sign-Third-Revised-Robert-Kampen/dp/1581342322 Of course you may want to get a used copy as a new one is rather pricey. I found some used ones for under $5, but there is a shipping fee. I believe that it is worth noting, to address those who say the author's a quack, that it is published by a christian book publisher.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
Thanks for that recommendation, I will buy a copy and give it to my pastor after I finish reading it. He's a book worm, his study is filled with books wall to wall. He said he can't help himself, when he goes to the bookshop. He comes home with a lot more then he intended on buying, so he will love it and I'm sure it will be edifying to him as well.
 
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Thanks for that recommendation, I will buy a copy and give it to my pastor after I finish reading it. He's a book worm, his study is filled with books wall to wall. He said he can't help himself, when he goes to the bookshop. He comes home with a lot more then he intended on buying, so he will love it and I'm sure it will be edifying to him as well.

Hi dan,

I have that same problem. I think I got my copy at a local thrift store when browsing their used books. I think I only paid a couple of dollars for it at a Goodwill store, but I found it to be quite an interesting read on the subject. And the author does back it all up with Scripture. In fact, I've read few books that reference the Scriptures as much as this one does.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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