The Saint Steve Highlights of Christ Triumphant

FineLinen

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I think I didn't start posting until chapter nine. And it was on the Perfect Rectitude topic. Possibly earlier on another topic. Just occasional snippets at that point.

Dear Saint: I have just been reading chapter 6 from my new hard copy (some rascal shoplifted my old worn one). Your faithful work has awakened a new appreciation for the scope of Thomas Allin & Christ Triumphant.

If you need help with chapter 6, I can arise from slumber at 3 a.m.
 
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Saint Steven

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Dear Saint: I have just been reading chapter 6 from my new hard copy (some rascal shoplifted my old worn one). Your faithful work has awakened a new appreciation for the scope of Thomas Allin & Christ Triumphant.

If you need help with chapter 6, I can arise from slumber at 3 a.m.
I did a search and did find some posts from chapter six. And back as far as chapter two. On various topics. I was sprinkling them around originally. Then you gave me a permanent home for them right here. Thanks.

If you search this term (under me as poster) you can find them to repost.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter six
 
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FineLinen

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I did a search and did find some posts from chapter six. And back as far as chapter two. On various topics. I was sprinkling them around originally. Then you gave me a permanent home for them right here. Thanks.

Dear Steve: what did you do with all your spare time prior to this mission?
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Saint Steven

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Dear Steve: what did you do with all your spare time prior to this mission?
Previously I was a rock star. I gave it all up for Thomas Allin.
I'm all-in for Allin. - lol
 
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Saint Steven

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That Philanthropists (whom we honor) should be unable to bear the sight of the momentary suffering of the outcast here, while they are prepared to accept heaven's joy unmoved by the endless agony of the outcast hereafter, fills the mind with thoughts, for which amazement is too feeble a term.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Saint Steven

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The apologies offered for the traditional creed are truly worthy of it. Thus many shelter themselves under the phrase, "God will do His best for every man" I can only suppose such an apology meant, not as an argument, but as an ill-timed piece of pleasantry. For what are the admitted facts? An Almighty Being, Who is, on any possible hypothesis, perfectly free to create or not, yet forces on myriads of hapless children of His own the fatal gift of existence, knowing that in fact this life of theirs will ripen into endless misery and woe. To call this doing His best for them is an abuse of language -- could He do worse for them?

Some actually try to defend endless evil by asking, "would the lost be happy if put into heaven??" As if the larger hope did not expressly teach the conversion of the lost in the first place.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Der Alte

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That Philanthropists (whom we honor) should be unable to bear the sight of the momentary suffering of the outcast here, while they are prepared to accept heaven's joy unmoved by the endless agony of the outcast hereafter, fills the mind with thoughts, for which amazement is too feeble a term.
I wonder how Noah and his family felt when they saw the entire world being drowned? Men, women, young, old children, infants.
I wonder how Job and his family felt when they saw Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plain destroyed? Men, women, young, old children, infants.
I wonder how the rest of the Israelites felt when they saw Korah and those associated with him killed?
I wonder how the Israelites felt when God told them to go through the camp and kill about 3000 fellow Israelites?
 
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Saint Steven

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Another plea for endless evil is made. This I shall state and answer in Mr. FOSTER'S words. "It is usually alleged that there will be an endless continuance of sinning, with probably an endless aggravation, and therefore the punishment must be endless. Is not this like an admission of disproportion between the punishment and the original cause of its infliction? But suppose the case to be so - that is to say, that the punishment is not a retribution simply for the guilt of the momentary existence on earth, but a continued punishment of the continued, ever aggravated, guilt in the eternal state: the allegation is of no avail in vindication of the doctrine, because the first consignment to the dreadful state necessitates a continuance of the criminality, the doctrine teaching, that it is of the essence, and is an awful aggravation, of the original consignment, that it dooms the condemned to maintain the criminal spirit unchanged for ever. The doom to sin as well as to suffer, and, according to the argument, to sin in order to suffer, is inflicted as the punishment of the sin committed in the mortal state Virtually, therefore the eternal punishment is the punishment of the sins of time." - Life and Corresp. vol. i. If, indeed, the sentence on the ungodly involve a virtual necessity to sin for ever, then the excuse offered is the deepest accusation possible of the traditional creed : Further, there is a duplicity in this plea when urged by those who quote texts, e.g., S. .Matt. xxv., which state the future punishment to be inflicted for sins already past.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Der Alte

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Another plea for endless evil is made. This I shall state and answer in Mr. FOSTER'S words. "It is usually alleged that there will be an endless continuance of sinning, with probably an endless aggravation, and therefore the punishment must be endless. Is not this like an admission of disproportion between the punishment and the original cause of its infliction? But suppose the case to be so - that is to say, that the punishment is not a retribution simply for the guilt of the momentary existence on earth, but a continued punishment of the continued, ever aggravated, guilt in the eternal state: the allegation is of no avail in vindication of the doctrine, because the first consignment to the dreadful state necessitates a continuance of the criminality, the doctrine teaching, that it is of the essence, and is an awful aggravation, of the original consignment, that it dooms the condemned to maintain the criminal spirit unchanged for ever. The doom to sin as well as to suffer, and, according to the argument, to sin in order to suffer, is inflicted as the punishment of the sin committed in the mortal state Virtually, therefore the eternal punishment is the punishment of the sins of time." - Life and Corresp. vol. i. If, indeed, the sentence on the ungodly involve a virtual necessity to sin for ever, then the excuse offered is the deepest accusation possible of the traditional creed : Further, there is a duplicity in this plea when urged by those who quote texts, e.g., S. .Matt. xxv., which state the future punishment to be inflicted for sins already past.
I must be in the wrong place. I thought this was a discussion forum where people post comments and question and there is a reciprocating discussion about the comments and and questions. Apparently it is a free venue for UR-ites to spam endless quotes from UR writers they think are authoritative.
 
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Saint Steven

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Few things are more wonderful in this whole question than the reluctance so many feel, to follow out these unhesitating convictions to their only possible legitimate conclusion - the rejection of that dogma, which flatly contradicts them. I do not assert, that these convictions are an infallible guide; for indeed of what can it be said that its directions reach us in an infallible form? Can that be said of the Bible itself? Are those who translate it, or who comment on it, infallible? Are those who read it free from error, from prejudice? But no Christian, therefore, doubts its divine authority, or fails to see in it a guide practically sufficient, and binding. So in the case of that other, and PRIMARY REVELATION of God to man. We do not claim infallibility for it, yet we do claim that the deliberate verdict of our moral sense represents to us the voice of God speaking for our guidance in daily life, and on which we are absolutely bound to act.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Our opponents will not remember that the moral sense is God's revelation to us; that it is His WORD, speaking to us, quite as truly as from the pages of any book. It is pure sophistry to say, "you must yield your ideas to God's revealed will," as though our true moral feelings were not God's revealed will to us.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Der Alte

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Our opponents will not remember that the moral sense is God's revelation to us; that it is His WORD, speaking to us, quite as truly as from the pages of any book. It is pure sophistry to say, "you must yield your ideas to God's revealed will," as though our true moral feelings were not God's revealed will to us.
The huge problem with this view is history is littered with religious groups all of whom claim to receive esoteric, spiritual guidance directly from God and, like UR, condemn everyone who does not accept their revelations. LDS, JW, OP, UPCI, WWCG, INC, Cristedelphians etc. which one should I join or should I stick with scripture?
 
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Saint Steven

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Let us consider how false it is to say, "We must yield our ideas." Must we? what! our ideas of truth, are they to be yielded? May God say that which we call false, and, if so, does it become truth? But if I must not yield up my idea of Truth, as applied to God, why am I to yield my ideas of Mercy, and Right, and Love? Does God perhaps hate in fact, while professing to love, the righteous? This question is vital. It is bad and terrible to use a cruel plea: it is far worse to use it when you do not, just because you dare not, use it honestly all round. If our human ideas of Right and Wrong are not to be trusted when applied to God, then anything may happen; anything may be right, anything may be wrong; anything may be true, anything may be false. All is Medley, Chaos, Anarchy: hell and heaven may change places. And so, for all we know, may good and evil- see pp. 11-2: 15-7. We are in fact Agnostics, for we know nothing really. We may call ourselves anything we please, but (moral) Agnostics we are, and we remain.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Saint Steven

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This volume has strongly urged the moral degradation due, directly and indirectly, to the doctrine of endless penalty. Here I may state a final instance in an unexpected quarter. It has helped in large measure to promote that immoral casuistry against which at length the human conscience rose in open revolt. This it has effected because that system had its origin in the distinction between mortal and venial sin. Now, as the results of mortal sin were supposed to be so unspeakably awful, if in any way unrepented of, a direct incitement was furnished to narrow, as far as possible, the range of these sins. And thus a perverted ingenuity was set to work in breaking down great moral distinctions, and in attenuating systematically the guilt of the graver crimes, in order to stamp them as merely venial offenses. - MAINE, Antient Law, p. 352.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Saint Steven

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I have shown further by abundant evidence, the wide currency, in the early ages, of the broadest Universalism, a fact too little known and ignorantly denied. May I again point out that this Universalism was essentially based on Scripture, and that it has been reechoed in later years by the most saintly souls. You may search in vain in all the annals of English religion for a name more saintly than W. LAW, the Universalist. Men talk of the "laxity" of Universalism. Was it this "laxity" that recommended it to the glowing devotion of LAW, to the sainted MACRINA, (whose deathbed is the most impressive in all primitive annals, p. 121,) to ORIGEN, whose life was one continuous prayer; to a crowd of men like-minded in the early Church? Was the devout ERSKINE of Linlathen drawn by this "laxity" to Universalism, or CHARLES GEORGE GORDON, or FLORENCE NIGHTINGALE? Was the holy KEN attracted to a wider hope than that current in his day by this "laxity?" Or was it not that these, like so many of the early saints, had caught more truly the Spirit of Him, the All-Father, Who loving, loves to the end, Who seeks the lost, till He finds them?

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Next we have seen (ch. vi.) how close is the connection between Universalism and Creation, Incarnation, Atonement, and Resurrection; and have inquired carefully into the meaning of "Election," "Death," "Judgment," "Fire." I have attempted to show that the true teaching of Holy Scripture, and of Antiquity, on these points is in absolute harmony with the larger hope, that to insist on one and all is to bring into clearer relief the doctrine of universal salvation.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Saint Steven

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To attempt to introduce fresh ideas, especially in things religious, into minds saturated with doctrines taught in childhood, and hallowed by so many ties, has been well compared to trying to write on paper already scribbled over. Hence the many compromises, excuses, modifications, now current, on the part of those half convinced that the traditional creed is false. The first shelter that offers is accepted, thus many snatch at Conditional Immortality, not pausing to inquire (even writing volumes without inquiring) whether it so much as fulfills the great primary point of teaching the victory of Jesus Christ, p. 9.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Saint Steven

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I have steadily sought in these pages, even when necessarily most outspoken, to recognize the perfect sincerity of my opponents; my quarrel, when most earnest, is not with individuals, but with a system. Here I would make a final appeal and ask, if some who read will not try to rise to higher levels, and to see in the larger hope the only view worthy of the All-Father, and of His Justice, which is the handmaid of His Love. Alone this hope explains the wonders of our creation in God's Image; alone it satisfies the majesty of Love and its unquenchable thirst to raise the fallen, and most of all to save finally the most hopeless, the most unrepentant. Alone it really teaches that with God "All things are possible:" alone it sweetens every sorrow, and wipes away every tear. By its light alone are we able to gaze at the very saddest depths of sin, and in its worst discords to hear an undertone of hope. It alone enables us to believe truly in the Eternal Goodness, and its final victory: by it alone do we gain a full and adequate idea of the divine Unity (pp. 209, 245) - One Will, One Love, One Law, One Lord, and "One far-off divine event to which the whole creation moves."

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Saint Steven

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We have carefully considered the all-important question of the teaching of Holy Scripture. We have noted even in the Old Testament, intimations from the very first of a future blessing, designed to embrace all the race of man. These become more distinct as the plan of God is more fully disclosed; and both Psalmists and Prophets unite in their promises of an age yet to come, when the knowledge of the Lord shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine
 
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Sin is the fertilizer that made grace grow. Sin and punishment not being the goal or end, but rather grace and forgiveness.

Like the natural order of things. A tree grows and produces a leaf. When mature, the leaf dies and falls to the ground. Dead leaves are the mulch from which fresh new life springs. Therefore, death produces life. This is the divine order of things.

Can there ever be great victory without a great struggle? And the worse the foe, the more glorious the celebration. And doesn't God himself love an amazing story? Why would his divine plan end in defeat?

Romans 5:20-21
The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Post #164 quoted above.
Perhaps readers thought I had forgotten to credit Thomas Allin when I posted it.
But this post is my own thoughts inspired by Allin's writing.

I just reposted this to another topic and realized that my source (or apparent lack of source citation) on this may have been unclear.
 
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