LDS Why do Mormons really not understand the Cross?

Jamesone5 said:

You answered one question

Just showing that I worship the true Christ.--He is the Way

I said I disagreed.---so we worship two different Christs as your former false prophet Hinckley said. The key is if either of us has the right one.

I like how you leave out context in your verses. You Bible does not have John 1:1? The first verse says:


John 1:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And to refresh your memory as to Who the word was/is:

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

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Which just shows that there are at least two Gods.

Jamesone5 said:

I really think you are refusing to get it.
This does not say another God, but the one true God coming as the Word.

John 1:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Here another way you can look at it

Hebrews 11:1

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidenceof things not seen.

Seem that in the flesh only, people want to put in their minds a God and a Son as two separate Beings. Since you cannot see either of them and you want to have Faith, you are going to allow God, The Son and the Holy Spirt be One God---with that Holy Spirit just as the Scripture lays out.

Another way to look at is here:

John 4:24 [
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Does a Spirit have go by the laws of human nature in existing?

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Jesus has shown us how He and the Father are one:

(New Testament | John 17:21 - 26)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

How can you disagree with this, it is so very plain?

He is the way said:

Jesus has shown us how He and the Father are one:

(New Testament | John 17:21 - 26)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

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Here's a question: why do you highlight "as Thou, Father, art in Me", and not "and I in Thee" which follows it? In what way is Jesus in the Father in Mormonism?

dzheremi said:

Here's a question: why do you highlight "as Thou, Father, art in Me", and not "and I in Thee" which follows it? In what way is Jesus in the Father in Mormonism?

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I agree with the whole scripture, but was emphasizing how Jesus Christ and the Father are one. Here are some scriptures that show how the Father is in the Son and the Son in the Father:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:24 - 25)

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

(New Testament | John 14:15 - 20)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

That is how we can understand this scripture better:

(New Testament | John 17:21)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Again: In what way is Jesus in the Father in Mormonism?

dzheremi said:

Again: In what way is Jesus in the Father in Mormonism?

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Just like the scripture states:

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them...... that they may be made perfect in one.

Therefore we can be one with then in perfection and glory. We will also be one in purpose. That purpose is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

He is the way said:

We will also be one in purpose. That purpose is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

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Did Jesus not already do that in Mormonism?

dzheremi said:

Did Jesus not already do that in Mormonism?

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This is an ongoing work of repentance, baptism for the remission of sins, and keeping the commandments.

He is the way said:

This is an ongoing work of repentance, baptism for the remission of sins, and keeping the commandments.

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So Jesus did not bring to pass eternal life or immortality in Mormonism?

Huh...I wonder what that whole resurrection thing was all about, then. I guess it was just encouragement to continue following the (Mormon) commandments.

Jamesone5 said:

Here is what you stated:

Which just shows that there are at least two Gods.---He is the Way

(New Testament | John 17:21 - 26)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in thee

Where oh where does it list one God much less two Gods or 3 or whatever Mormons like to believe in? "God" is not even listed in the Passage. You just do not get to superimpose your Mormon meanings onto the text.

How could Mormons understand the Cross? They do not know Who the True Christ really Is. Random Mormon beliefs are that He in one of the
gods, maybe a spiritual brother, maybe a sub-God--whatever. I have even heard from a Mormon that He is God is the OT and evidently His "Father" and he switched designations as He is only Lord in the NT. A bunch of Mormons trying to explain how He is to be accounted for.

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The Bible has a definition. Jesus Christ is the Lord God but NOT God the Father:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:5 - 6)

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

From the resurrected Christ:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I have shown how Jesus said they are one through glory and perfection. Will you continue to ignore what Jesus Christ said and follow man's precepts? I do expect an answer.

dzheremi said:

So Jesus did not bring to pass eternal life or immortality in Mormonism?

Huh...I wonder what that whole resurrection thing was all about, then. I guess it was just encouragement to continue following the (Mormon) commandments.

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We have all been given the agency to choose who we will serve:

(New Testament | Romans 6:16)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

(Old Testament | Joshua 24:14 - 15)

14 ¶ Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

(New Testament | Matthew 6:24)

24 ¶ No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

(New Testament | Matthew 25:32 - 46)

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The work continues.

AGAIN: Jesus did not bring to pass eternal life or immortality in Mormonism? Or did he?

dzheremi said:

AGAIN: Jesus did not bring to pass eternal life or immortality in Mormonism? Or did he?

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Yes Jesus made the resurrection possible so that everyone will be resurrected:

(Book of Mormon | Alma 40:21 - 23)

21 But whether it be at his resurrection or after, I do not say; but this much I say, that there is a space between death and the resurrection of the body, and a state of the soul in happiness or in misery until the time which is appointed of God that the dead shall come forth, and be reunited, both soul and body, and be brought to stand before God, and be judged according to their works.
22 Yea, this bringeth about the restoration of those things of which has been spoken by the mouths of the prophets.
23 The soul shall be restored to the body, and the body to the soul; yea, and every limb and joint shall be restored to its body; yea, even a hair of the head shall not be lost; but all things shall be restored to their proper and perfect frame.

Jamesone5 said:

It would seem you ignore parts of the Bible, when you make the assessment...

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

Do you suppose Joseph Smith is one of those gods or lords many? Are you a god or a lord?

I have shown how Jesus said they are one through glory and perfection.---He is the Way

You are dreaming is you think you have proved Jesus is one separate God. See you, as usual do far too much assuming.

And as I have shown you before Father is a descriptive term---not literal.

and then when you do not Believe God came down and died on the Cross---it is no wonder you do not understand.​

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I totally understand because I believe the words of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith did not declare himself a God or a Lord and neither have I. You just love to ask questions that have NOTHING to do with the subject mater. I stopped responding to one of the threads as it was becoming just to ridiculous. So I will ask again. Will you continue to ignore what Jesus Christ said and follow man's precepts? I do expect a proper answer.