Torah and Grace. Everyone Has A Role.

dqhall said:

I studied Christianity. In Acts 15 Paul went to meet Peter and the other apostles and argued the Gentile believers should not be made to bear the burden of the law. I believe it is not necessary for Gentiles to be circumcised, sacrifice animals, or do strict Sabbath observance to be saved. I choose to study the Gospels without converting to Judaism. I have no inheritance in Israel.

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Why do you arbitrarily distinguish between Jew and gentile. Unbeknownst to you, there is no difference according to scripture.
The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you. Ex 12:49
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 1 Cor 12:13
He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith. Acts 15:9
FYI, the law never saved anyone. Only faith justifies. The law serves as a tutor which points people to Jesus who is the fulfillment of the law. Upon salvation we (the wild olive) are grafted unto Israel (the cultivated olive - NOT - the other way around.

Oldmantook said:

One man's truth is another man's falsehood. I can't accept your view as all doctrine must take into account those scriptures that don't appear to support one's own view. I already pointed out to you that Paul himself declared that he serves the law in Rom 7:25. I think it can't be much clearer than that. That verse is problematic for your view. A hermeneutical principle requires us to interpret more obscure verses in light of the clear ones. It seems to be that you do it in reverse which is why we disagree.

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Actually Brother I show to which Law Paul is speaking here, in the study I sent you. In Romans 7:25 he speaking of the Law of Faith, which is not the Law of Moses since it is clearly written that the Law of Moses was not the law of Faith(Galatians 3:11-12), in the study I sent you I broke down everything spoken of in Galatians 3 as well. Now Brother I have shown you what the full counsel of God has said on this matter, sparing nothing, nor have I ignored any verses that you have quoted. Much to the contrary in fact, since for every vesrse you quote I quote even more from the Chapter to show that in the Context of what is written it does not say what you believe it does. But rather it says, in the full measure of what is being spoken, what I have attested to and declared this whole time.
Romans 7-Married to a New Husband
6. The law of the covenant hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth(Romans 7:1) just as a woman who is married to a man by law is bound to the husband as long as he liveth(Romans 7:2) that if a woman marry again while the first husband still lives she is in adultery(Romans 7:3). If the husband be dead the woman becomes loosed from the bond(Romans 7:2,3) and is free to marry another man and not be called an adulteress(Romans 7:2,3) in like manner also are we. For at first we were married to the law of the covenant(Romans 7:1) but so that we would not be in adultery we were made dead to the law of the covenant(Romans 7:4,6,8-11) by the body of Christ(Romans 7:4 by the which we could be married again to our New husband who is Christ(Romans 7:4). By this way we are delivered from the letter of the Law of the Covenant(Old Husband) and put under that Spiritual law that came by Christ(New Husband)(Romans 7:6,12,14-16,22,25).

Oldmantook said:

Why do you arbitrarily distinguish between Jew and gentile. Unbeknownst to you, there is no difference according to scripture.
The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you. Ex 12:49
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 1 Cor 12:13
He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith. Acts 15:9
FYI, the law never saved anyone. Only faith justifies. The law serves as a tutor which points people to Jesus who is the fulfillment of the law. Upon salvation we (the wild olive) are grafted unto Israel (the cultivated olive - NOT - the other way around.

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I spent a total of five months touring Israel during the past 21 years. Israel does not recognize Christianity as a valid form of Judaism. They do not graft you in. In Israel a Gentile is Goi; non-observant of Jewish religious laws and traditions. They liked American tourists, but hate people who drive on the Sabbath. It is illegal for a Christian to teach the Gospels to a Jewish child. A British pastor I met was arrested for giving a Bible to a Jewish teen who requested one.

God does not discriminate between races or ethnicities. God does notice how people behave. Jesus taught that God knows when a sparrow falls from the sky. God knows how many hairs are on your head. Jesus said, “Seek first the kingdom of heaven, then these other things (food, beverage, clothes) will be added to you as well.”

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

Actually Brother I show to which Law Paul is speaking here, in the study I sent you. In Romans 7:25 he speaking of the Law of Faith, which is not the Law of Moses since it is clearly written that the Law of Moses was not the law of Faith(Galatians 3:11-12), in the study I sent you I broke down everything spoken of in Galatians 3 as well. Now Brother I have shown you what the full counsel of God has said on this matter, sparing nothing, nor have I ignored any verses that you have quoted. Much to the contrary in fact, since for every vesrse you quote I quote even more from the Chapter to show that in the Context of what is written it does not say what you believe it does. But rather it says, in the full measure of what is being spoken, what I have attested to and declared this whole time.
Romans 7-Married to a New Husband
6. The law of the covenant hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth(Romans 7:1) just as a woman who is married to a man by law is bound to the husband as long as he liveth(Romans 7:2) that if a woman marry again while the first husband still lives she is in adultery(Romans 7:3). If the husband be dead the woman becomes loosed from the bond(Romans 7:2,3) and is free to marry another man and not be called an adulteress(Romans 7:2,3) in like manner also are we. For at first we were married to the law of the covenant(Romans 7:1) but so that we would not be in adultery we were made dead to the law of the covenant(Romans 7:4,6,8-11) by the body of Christ(Romans 7:4 by the which we could be married again to our New husband who is Christ(Romans 7:4). By this way we are delivered from the letter of the Law of the Covenant(Old Husband) and put under that Spiritual law that came by Christ(New Husband)(Romans 7:6,12,14-16,22,25).

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Actually, you have totally misread the chapter. Rom 7 states we are free from the law of death (Mosaic law) v.6. According to you, you believe that the law is dead and as a result, we are free from the law. Is that true?

Absolutely not. Read v.4 CAREFULLY. Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
The critical point as emphasized in this verse is that WE HAVE DIED TO THE LAW (through faith) and NOT that the law has died.
This is a crucial distinction that you have overlooked - which results in your belief system. The law when fulfilled, leads to faith. Upon faith in Christ, we become dead to the law as we now live by faith. The law does not become dead - we become dead. It does not justify either but it tutors us to Christ who fulfills the law. Without the law there is no tutor and therefore no one would come to Christ without the law as through the law comes knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20). And without knowledge of sin, there would be no repentance because no one would know what to repent of. Therefore the law exists and we have died to it through faith in Jesus.

dqhall said:

I spent a total of five months touring Israel during the past 21 years. Israel does not recognize Christianity as a valid form of Judaism. They do not graft you in. In Israel a Gentile is Goi; non-observant of Jewish religious laws and traditions. They liked American tourists, but hate people who drive on the Sabbath. It is illegal for a Christian to teach the Gospels to a Jewish child. A British pastor I met was arrested for giving a Bible to a Jewish teen who requested one.

God does not discriminate between races or ethnicities. God does notice how people behave. Jesus taught that God knows when a sparrow falls from the sky. God knows how many hairs are on your head. Jesus said, “Seek first the kingdom of heaven, then these other things (food, beverage, clothes) will be added to you as well.”

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I agree as they (modern Israel) do not graft us in. However, modern Israel is not biblical Israel. Modern Israel is largely secular and the religious Jews follow the Talmud while disregarding the the written law of Moses. Scripture states we are grafted on to the root as in the law of Moses - not on to the Zionist State of Israel.

Oldmantook said:

I agree as they (modern Israel) do not graft us in. However, modern Israel is not biblical Israel. Modern Israel is largely secular and the religious Jews follow the Talmud while disregarding the the written law of Moses. Scripture states we are grafted on to the root as in the law of Moses - not on to the Zionist State of Israel.

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The Talmud is commentary about the traditional observances of Torah Biblical commandments. There are numerous volumes of the Talmud.

The Jews in Israel are more religious than the Jews in America. The Haredim are among the most religious of the Jews in Israel. They are also among the poorest of Jews.

In one town I stayed in, they sounded a siren when the sun set to announce the beginning of Shabbat. Almost all the stores were closed except a few in tourist areas kept open with Arab workers. The government worked to shut things down on Shabbat.

Oldmantook said:

Actually, you have totally misread the chapter. Rom 7 states we are free from the law of death (Mosaic law) v.6. According to you, you believe that the law is dead and as a result, we are free from the law. Is that true?

Absolutely not. Read v.4 CAREFULLY. Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
The critical point as emphasized in this verse is that WE HAVE DIED TO THE LAW (through faith) and NOT that the law has died.
This is a crucial distinction that you have overlooked - which results in your belief system. The law when fulfilled, leads to faith. Upon faith in Christ, we become dead to the law as we now live by faith. The law does not become dead - we become dead. It does not justify either but it tutors us to Christ who fulfills the law. Without the law there is no tutor and therefore no one would come to Christ without the law as through the law comes knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20). And without knowledge of sin, there would be no repentance because no one would know what to repent of. Therefore the law exists and we have died to it through faith in Jesus.

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Well as it is stated the Law of Moses is Finished. We are freed from the Law through Christ, ourselves becoming dead to the Law(not the Law becoming dead to us) that we may live in Christ and follow the law of Christ. So yes we are free from our Old husband(mosaic law) and married to Christ. The Old Law is Obsolete, finished, completed, having served it's purpose in pointing toward Christ and the things he would bring which are now in place.

In fact this is what I have sent you twice now, once over message and once in this thread:
"Romans 7-Married to a New Husband
6. The law of the covenant hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth(Romans 7:1) just as a woman who is married to a man by law is bound to the husband as long as he liveth(Romans 7:2) that if a woman marry again while the first husband still lives she is in adultery(Romans 7:3). If the husband be dead the woman becomes loosed from the bond(Romans 7:2,3) and is free to marry another man and not be called an adulteress(Romans 7:2,3) in like manner also are we. For at first we were married to the law of the covenant(Romans 7:1) but so that we would not be in adultery we were made dead to the law of the covenant(Romans 7:4,6,8-11) by the body of Christ(Romans 7:4) by the which we could be married again to our New husband who is Christ(Romans 7:4). By this way we are delivered from the letter of the Law of the Covenant(Old Husband) and put under that Spiritual law that came by Christ(New Husband)(Romans 7:6,12,14-16,22,25).

I feel that you are not reading what I have been sending you brother, but rather responding without fully seeing all that I have written to you.

Brother the purpose of educating us, and bringing us to Christ was fulfilled when Christ came and gave us Salvation through him, fulfilling the purpose and the authority of the law bringing it to an end. Can it still show us things yes, but we are promised better things in Christ, such as Salvation, and perfect law(law of the Spirit) and so many other promises that Come with this New covenant that cannot have any place if the Law of Moses still stands.

God bless you brother

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

Well as it is stated the Law of Moses is Finished. We are freed from the Law through Christ, ourselves becoming dead to the Law(not the Law becoming dead to us) that we may live in Christ and follow the law of Christ. So yes we are free from our Old husband(mosaic law) and married to Christ. The Old Law is Obsolete, finished, completed, having served it's purpose in pointing toward Christ and the things he would bring which are now in place.

In fact this is what I have sent you twice now, once over message and once in this thread:
"Romans 7-Married to a New Husband
6. The law of the covenant hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth(Romans 7:1) just as a woman who is married to a man by law is bound to the husband as long as he liveth(Romans 7:2) that if a woman marry again while the first husband still lives she is in adultery(Romans 7:3). If the husband be dead the woman becomes loosed from the bond(Romans 7:2,3) and is free to marry another man and not be called an adulteress(Romans 7:2,3) in like manner also are we. For at first we were married to the law of the covenant(Romans 7:1) but so that we would not be in adultery we were made dead to the law of the covenant(Romans 7:4,6,8-11) by the body of Christ(Romans 7:4) by the which we could be married again to our New husband who is Christ(Romans 7:4). By this way we are delivered from the letter of the Law of the Covenant(Old Husband) and put under that Spiritual law that came by Christ(New Husband)(Romans 7:6,12,14-16,22,25).

I feel that you are not reading what I have been sending you brother, but rather responding without fully seeing all that I have written to you.

Brother the purpose of educating us, and bringing us to Christ was fulfilled when Christ came and gave us Salvation through him, fulfilling the purpose and the authority of the law bringing it to an end. Can it still show us things yes, but we are promised better things in Christ, such as Salvation, and perfect law(law of the Spirit) and so many other promises that Come with this New covenant that cannot have any place if the Law of Moses still stands.

God bless you brother

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When you make assertions, you are required to give scriptural backing. I cited Scripture for my belief. Where is the Scripture that states "the law of Moses is finished?" A simple example totally nullifies your belief. If the law of Moses is finished as you allege, why is the law observed and practiced again in the Millennial rule of Christ's reign on the earth? You have a big problem on your hands.

Oldmantook said:

When you make assertions, you are required to give scriptural backing. I cited Scripture for my belief. Where is the Scripture that states "the law of Moses is finished?" A simple example totally nullifies your belief. If the law of Moses is finished as you allege, why is the law observed and practiced again in the Millennial rule of Christ's reign on the earth? You have a big problem on your hands.

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1. I have cited dozens passages for each of the beliefs I have stated here.

2. Christ Fulfilled the Whole Law of the Covenant:Matt 5:17-20;Luke 16:16-17; Luke 24:25-27, 44-49;John 19:30; Acts 13:38-41; Romans 10:4; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 7:18-19,22; Hebrews 8:4-13; Hebrews 9:14-15; Hebrews 12:2;
Law of Moses Written with Ink and also Engraved on Stones(Joshua 8:29,31-32, 34-35) Done away: 2 Cor 3:3,7-Law that was by the Letter killeth:2 Cor 3:6- Epistle of Christ written by the Spirit in the Fleshy tables of our hearts:2 Cor 3:3-Made able ministers of the New Testament that is of the Spirit:2 Cor 3:6
The Handwriting of Ordinances that was a witness against Israel(Deut 31:26) has been blotted out/completed by Christ’s blood- Colossians 2:14; Hebrews 9:1, 10,11,13,23-28; Ephesians 2:15
Law of Moses- Luke 24:25-27, 44-48; Acts 13:39; Acts 15:5; Acts 28:23; Mark 12:26-27
Those who keep even one law from the Old Covenant are put under the whole Mosaic law and must keep all 613 laws lest they be cursed- Galatians 3:10,12; Galatians 5:3,49

3. That is simple brother, the Law of Moses is not practiced by Christians during the time of the Mark of the beast, when the valley of the mountain is set up Christians will keep the law of Christ and the Ten commandments as they do now. They will keep the New testament Passover which is Christ(1 Cor 5:7), they will keep the NT Feast of Tabernacles which is Christ(Zech 14:18), it is during this time that the First and second living harvest anti-typical of the wave sheaf will take place(Isaiah 10 and 11; Revelation 14; Revelation 7 and dozens of other verses), every anti-typical fulfillment of the feast days will be fulfilled before Christ's final coming in the Flesh, the shadows of the Anti-typical fulfillment(Mosaic typical feast days) will not be kept by Christians during this time.

4. So as you see brother, there is no problem with the Doctrine of Christ that I am preaching to you. All things that I have said are in accordance with the word of God.

God bless you brother

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

1. I have cited dozens passagesfor each of the beliefs I have stated here.

2. Christ Fulfilled the Whole Law of the Covenant:Matt 5:17-20;Luke 16:16-17; Luke 24:25-27, 44-49;John 19:30; Acts 13:38-41; Romans 10:4; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 7:18-19,22; Hebrews 8:4-13; Hebrews 9:14-15; Hebrews 12:2;
Law of Moses Written with Ink and also Engraved on Stones(Joshua 8:29,31-32, 34-35) Done away: 2 Cor 3:3,7-Law that was by the Letter killeth:2 Cor 3:6- Epistle of Christ written by the Spirit in the Fleshy tables of our hearts:2 Cor 3:3-Made able ministers of the New Testament that is of the Spirit:2 Cor 3:6
The Handwriting of Ordinances that was a witness against Israel(Deut 31:26) has been blotted out/completed by Christ’s blood- Colossians 2:14; Hebrews 9:1, 10,11,13,23-28; Ephesians 2:15
Law of Moses- Luke 24:25-27, 44-48; Acts 13:39; Acts 15:5; Acts 28:23; Mark 12:26-27
Those who keep even one law from the Old Covenant are put under the whole Mosaic law and must keep all 613 laws lest they be cursed- Galatians 3:10,12; Galatians 5:3,49

3. That is simple brother, the Law of Moses is not practiced by Christians during the time of the Mark of the beast, when the valley of the mountain is set up Christians will keep the law of Christ and the Ten commandments as they do now. They will keep the New testament Passover which is Christ(1 Cor 5:7), they will keep the NT Feast of Tabernacles which is Christ(Zech 14:18), it is during this time that the First and second living harvest anti-typical of the wave sheaf will take place(Isaiah 10 and 11; Revelation 14; Revelation 7 and dozens of other verses), every anti-typical fulfillment of the feast days will be fulfilled before Christ's final coming in the Flesh, the shadows of the Anti-typical fulfillment(Mosaic typical feast days) will not be kept by Christians during this time.

4. So as you see brother, there is no problem with the Doctrine of Christ that I am preaching to you. All things that I have said are in accordance with the word of God.

God bless you brother

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1. I refuted your passages.
2. Jesus fulfilled the whole law BUT yet you insist it has been annulled.
3. What?? The time of the mark of the beast is in this present church age NOT during the Millennium. So you see, you have not answered my question as i asked you why the law is observed by everyone during the Millennium? Answer please?

Oldmantook said:

1. I refuted your passages.
2. Jesus fulfilled the whole law BUT yet you insist it has been annulled.
3. What?? The time of the mark of the beast is in this present church age NOT during the Millennium. So you see, you have not answered my question as i asked you why the law is observed by everyone during the Millennium? Answer please?

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1. I know you believe that you have brother, but each time you gave an answer I showed how your answer was false. I understand that you cannot see this but by the grace of God you may come to see the truth someday.
2. No, I have said repeatedly that he fulfilled the law completing it, finishing it, and bringing to an end. He did not annul or destroy but finished. Now we have a better law and a better covenant as promised. You see brother, you still do not understand a word that I have said to you.
3. The time of the Mark of the Beast is when the Sunday law(mark of the beast) is being enforced by Law throughout the world by the one world government on penalty of death that unless a man has the mark he may not buy or sell. This has not yet happened, so no we are not in the time of the Mark yet brother. Those with the mark exist/live outside the valley of the Mountain during the thousand years and also after, that is why we see Satan coming back out of his prison in the abyss to come and deceive the Nations who had the mark to come up against the Camp of the Saints(valley of the Mountain). You forget Brother that during this time there are these upon whom rain will not fall and those who will have a Plague on upon them, since only the righteous keep the Feast of Tabernacles(anti-typical) in the Valley of the Mountain. The heathen upon the Earth do not keep it and so they suffer the according to their disobedience. It seems brother it is your doctrine that is error and not the Doctrine of Christ which I have preached to you.

God bless you

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

1. I know you believe that you have brother, but each time you gave an answer I showed how your answer was false. I understand that you cannot see this but by the grace of God you may come to see the truth someday.
2. No, I have said repeatedly that he fulfilled the law completing it, finishing it, and bringing to an end. He did not annul or destroy but finished. Now we have a better law and a better covenant as promised. You see brother, you still do not understand a word that I have said to you.
3. The time of the Mark of the Beast is when the Sunday law(mark of the beast) is being enforced by Law throughout the world by the one world government on penalty of death that unless a man has the mark he may not buy or sell. This has not yet happened, so no we are not in the time of the Mark yet brother. Those with the mark exist/live outside the valley of the Mountain during the thousand years and also after, that is why we see Satan coming back out of his prison in the abyss to come and deceive the Nations who had the mark to come up against the Camp of the Saints(valley of the Mountain). You forget Brother that during this time there are these upon whom rain will not fall and those who will have a Plague on upon them, since only the righteous keep the Feast of Tabernacles(anti-typical) in the Valley of the Mountain. The heathen upon the Earth do not keep it and so they suffer the according to their disobedience. It seems brother it is your doctrine that is error and not the Doctrine of Christ which I have preached to you.

God bless you

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You have still not answered my question. Do you believe in the Millennial rule of Christ on the earth - which is not this church age - but after Christ returns? And if you do, why is the Law observed and enforced amongst the Jews and gentiles during the Millennium? It has obviously not ceased during that future time. You have mixed up your time periods.

Oldmantook said:

You have still not answered my question. Do you believe in the Millennial rule of Christ on the earth - which is not this church age - but after Christ returns? And if you do, why is the Law observed and enforced amongst the Jews and gentiles during the Millennium? It has obviously not ceased during that future time. You have mixed up your time periods.

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Christ will not Physically rule on this earth, he will be in the Spirit in the valley of the mountain during the time of the Mark of the beast. After which he will return and completely destroy the heavens and the earth. Then a new heavens and a New earth will be created after the judgement. The Heavenly Jerusalem will descend down in this new heavens and new earth.

So no there will be no millennial rule over the whole earth by Christ, but there will be a millennium. The wicked though will still remain during this millennial period outside of the Valley of the Mountain, which valley is God's kingdom on this earth during the time of the mark.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

Christ will not Physically rule on this earth, he will be in the Spirit in the valley of the mountain during the time of the Mark of the beast. After which he will return and completely destroy the heavens and the earth. Then a new heavens and a New earth will be created after the judgement. The Heavenly Jerusalem will descend down in this new heavens and new earth.

So no there will be no millennial rule over the whole earth by Christ, but there will be a millennium. The wicked though will still remain during this millennial period outside of the Valley of the Mountain, which valley is God's kingdom on this earth during the time of the mark.

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Scripture please? I don't require your mere opinion.

Oldmantook said:

Scripture please? I don't require your mere opinion.

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Sure thing brother, here is a link to the Valley of the Mountain study I wrote which shows that he Anti-typical harvests of the wave sheaf, kingdom of God on earth, and when the Lord returns in the Flesh.
Kingdom of God on Earth

If you have any questions about this I would say check out the Shepherd's rod and the writings of Victor T Houteff since he wrote extensively on this subject.
Shepherd's Rod Message

You can also check out Don Adair's studies on this subject since he has also written much concerning the kingdom and when Christ returns in the Flesh.
STUDIES

Hope this helps brother,
God bless you

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

Sure thing brother, here is a link to the Valley of the Mountain study I wrote which shows that he Anti-typical harvests of the wave sheaf, kingdom of God on earth, and when the Lord returns in the Flesh.
Kingdom of God on Earth

If you have any questions about this I would say check out the Shepherd's rod and the writings of Victor T Houteff since he wrote extensively on this subject.
Shepherd's Rod Message

You can also check out Don Adair's studies on this subject since he has also written much concerning the kingdom and when Christ returns in the Flesh.
STUDIES

Hope this helps brother,
God bless you

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Thanks, I'll take a look when I'm able and give you feedback.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

There is much more Bible proof showing that the Kingdom of God is set up on earth before Yahshua the Christ destroys the earth, heavens, and the wicked by fire at his coming.

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I cited your statement above as that seems to be the gist of your argument against the Kingdom being set up during the Millennium. If I understand you correctly, you are claiming that God's kingdom is established before Jesus' 2nd coming when Jesus "destroys the earth, etc.

I disagree based upon the fact that when Jesus returns, He judges between the sheep and the goats. These are the people who are still alive at his return described in Matt 25:31-46. The earth is not yet destroyed and the heavens still exist. Everything is yet intact. The sheep inherit the kingdom on earth prepared for them from the foundation of the world (v.34) while the goats enter the lake of fire (v.41). After the 1,000 years on earth is completed, Satan is loosed (Rev 20:7) in order to deceive the gentiles on the earth (Rev 20:8). If the earth is already destroyed, how can gentiles still be on the earth?

This topic strays from the OP, but my point is that law exists during the Millennium which is not now but in the future. If the law no longer applies today as you claim, then how can it exist in the future during the Millennium?

Oldmantook said:

I cited your statement above as that seems to be the gist of your argument against the Kingdom being set up during the Millennium. If I understand you correctly, you are claiming that God's kingdom is established before Jesus' 2nd coming when Jesus "destroys the earth, etc.

I disagree based upon the fact that when Jesus returns, He judges between the sheep and the goats. These are the people who are still alive at his return described in Matt 25:31-46. The earth is not yet destroyed and the heavens still exist. Everything is yet intact. The sheep inherit the kingdom on earth prepared for them from the foundation of the world (v.34) while the goats enter the lake of fire (v.41). After the 1,000 years on earth is completed, Satan is loosed (Rev 20:7) in order to deceive the gentiles on the earth (Rev 20:8). If the earth is already destroyed, how can gentiles still be on the earth?

This topic strays from the OP, but my point is that law exists during the Millennium which is not now but in the future. If the law no longer applies today as you claim, then how can it exist in the future during the Millennium?

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The Kingdom of God on this earth is set up during the time of the Mark of the Beast, it is not the eternal promised kingdom to come(which we receive in the New heavens and new earth)

He Judges them after the destruction of the Earth as everyone then must stand before the Lord, not in the flesh, but rather he judges them who are now souls without a body(Revelation 20:9-15). We see them all giving an account of themselves at this time(Matt 12:36-37; Romans 14:12; 1 Peter 4:5) but they do so after the destruction of the earth since that is the only time the books are opened to judge the wicked(Revelation 20:9-12). Then after they are judged, it is then that the New heavens and the new earth are created and the Righteous inherit the New earth(the perfect and promised earth, not this corrupt one) Revelation 21:1-27. So what we see in Matt 25 is actually several different events taking place, the first resurrection of the righteous(matt 25:34-40; Revelation 20:4-6) the second resurrection(for the wicked)(Matt 25:41-46; Revelation 20:11-15), we see the Lord returning to gather the righteous in the first resurrection, but he does so not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Since we know that when he does finally return in the flesh all things are destroyed(Revelation 20:9-11), and we also know that no unrighteous person is cast into the Lake of fire until he returns to destroy everything since the books are not opened for their judgment until after the thousand years and until after all things are destroyed by fire(Revelation 20:9,11-12).

We find then brother that the first resurrection before the thousand years is for the righteous but the wicked for a thousand years will remain upon the earth until Christ's return with fire once the unrighteous come to take the Camp of the saints(valley of the Mountain) after Satan is loosed from his prison. After which every unrighteous person stands to be judged.

So again brother, the Law of Moses is not what is being kept by the people of God within the Valley bu the Law of Christ, it is only the only Anti-typical feast days that are being kept by the people of God.

God bless brother

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

The Kingdom of God on this earth is set up during the time of the Mark of the Beast, it is not the eternal promised kingdom to come(which we receive in the New heavens and new earth)

He Judges them after the destruction of the Earth as everyone then must stand before the Lord, not in the flesh, but rather he judges them who are now souls without a body(Revelation 20:9-15). We see them all giving an account of themselves at this time(Matt 12:36-37; Romans 14:12; 1 Peter 4:5) but they do so after the destruction of the earth since that is the only time the books are opened to judge the wicked(Revelation 20:9-12). Then after they are judged, it is then that the New heavens and the new earth are created and the Righteous inherit the New earth(the perfect and promised earth, not this corrupt one) Revelation 21:1-27. So what we see in Matt 25 is actually several different events taking place, the first resurrection of the righteous(matt 25:34-40; Revelation 20:4-6) the second resurrection(for the wicked)(Matt 25:41-46; Revelation 20:11-15), we see the Lord returning to gather the righteous in the first resurrection, but he does so not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Since we know that when he does finally return in the flesh all things are destroyed(Revelation 20:9-11), and we also know that no unrighteous person is cast into the Lake of fire until he returns to destroy everything since the books are not opened for their judgment until after the thousand years and until after all things are destroyed by fire(Revelation 20:9,11-12).

We find then brother that the first resurrection before the thousand years is for the righteous but the wicked for a thousand years will remain upon the earth until Christ's return with fire once the unrighteous come to take the Camp of the saints(valley of the Mountain) after Satan is loosed from his prison. After which every unrighteous person stands to be judged.

So again brother, the Law of Moses is not what is being kept by the people of God within the Valley bu the Law of Christ, it is only the only Anti-typical feast days that are being kept by the people of God.

God bless brother

Click to expand...

You did not address the scriptures I cited.

Oldmantook said:

You did not address the scriptures I cited.

Click to expand...

I actually did brother,
He Judges them after the destruction of the Earth as everyone then must stand before the Lord, not in the flesh, but rather he judges them who are now souls without a body(Revelation 20:9-15). We see them all giving an account of themselves at this time(Matt 12:36-37; Romans 14:12; 1 Peter 4:5) but they do so after the destruction of the earth since that is the only time the books are opened to judge the wicked(Revelation 20:9-12). Then after they are judged, it is then that the New heavens and the new earth are created and the Righteous inherit the New earth(the perfect and promised earth, not this corrupt one) Revelation 21:1-27. So what we see in Matt 25 is actually several different events taking place, the first resurrection of the righteous(matt 25:34-40; Revelation 20:4-6) the second resurrection(for the wicked)(Matt 25:41-46; Revelation 20:11-15), we see the Lord returning to gather the righteous in the first resurrection, but he does so not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Since we know that when he does finally return in the flesh all things are destroyed(Revelation 20:9-11), and we also know that no unrighteous person is cast into the Lake of fire until he returns to destroy everything since the books are not opened for their judgment until after the thousand years and until after all things are destroyed by fire(Revelation 20:9,11-12).