LDS Why do Mormons really not understand the Cross?

Peter1000

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I've never heard of anyone wearing a cross to refute or annoy or witness to Mormons. The cross is more than love. Christ blood was shed to pay for our sins. In Mormonism it is only an opportunity for the Mormon to earn eternal life.

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ believe that Christ's blood was shed to pay for our sins. Only in this way can we have eternal life. WE DO NOT BELIEVE WE CAN EARN ETERNAL LIFE. That is a falsehood that some Christians use to keep people from joining us.
 
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Jamesone5

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I don't know how you seem to get everything so mixed up. When you said: "You hope you have Faith?" did you not notice that faith comes first? You are trying so hard to find fault, that you are not reading things correctly.

Really does not matter which term comes first--your BoM says this

42 Wherefore, if a man have faith he must needs have hope; for without faith there cannot be any hope.

Why does Joseph Smith put the two together if one did not work without the other? Oh, I guess to also support his Article of Faith which says this;

We hope to be able to endure.

[Maybe with the Faith we HOPE we have]
 
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He is the way

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Really does not matter which term comes first--your BoM says this

42 Wherefore, if a man have faith he must needs have hope; for without faith there cannot be any hope.

Why does Joseph Smith put the two together if one did not work without the other? Oh, I guess to also support his Article of Faith which says this;

We hope to be able to endure.

[Maybe with the Faith we HOPE we have]
And they are both correct.
 
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Jamesone5

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And they are both correct.

I have just about been bored to tears explaining things.

Let us take the word "endure" and how it is used in the Bible. One solid example would be here:

Matthew 13:20-22
20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Mormons are told only rely on their hope to endure, will be like the example here. Not proving to anyone they have the Faith they Hope they have.

We hope to be able to endure to the end---that is your mandate, certainly not mine.
 
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He is the way

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I have just about been bored to tears explaining things.

Let us take the word "endure" and how it is used in the Bible. One solid example would be here:

Matthew 13:20-22
20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Mormons are told only rely on their hope to endure, will be like the example here. Not proving to anyone they have the Faith they Hope they have.

We hope to be able to endure to the end---that is your mandate, certainly not mine.
So what is your mandate?
 
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He is the way

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Show you were you are only placing your faith in your hoping to endure
Do you not hope to endure to the end?

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I sure hope I do.
 
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Jamesone5

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Do you not hope to endure to the end?

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I sure hope I do.


Good luck in only hoping to endure;

But look at that verse, now that you bring it up.

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Are you assumeing that verse is conditional? the key word is "But"

No ----it is a Promise that evidently you cannot receive or comprehend.

The Bible explains itself when you cannot understand a particular verse, like in this case.
Acts 24:15
I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust

Place your hope in God, not in self.

And once again--good luck with only your fleshly hope.
 
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He is the way

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Good luck in only hoping to endure;

But look at that verse, now that you bring it up.

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Are you assumeing that verse is conditional? the key word is "But"

No ----it is a Promise that evidently you cannot receive or comprehend.

The Bible explains itself when you cannot understand a particular verse, like in this case.
Acts 24:15
I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust

Place your hope in God, not in self.

And once again--good luck with only your fleshly hope.
(New Testament | Revelation 3:5)

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(New Testament | Revelation 20:15)

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

(New Testament | Matthew 23:33)

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

(New Testament | Mark 9:43)

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

(New Testament | Luke 12:4 - 5)

4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
 
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Rescued One

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Members of the Church of Jesus Christ believe that Christ's blood was shed to pay for our sins. Only in this way can we have eternal life. WE DO NOT BELIEVE WE CAN EARN ETERNAL LIFE.

That is a falsehood that some Christians use to keep people from joining us.

Maybe you don't know you have to earn eternal life, but your religion says otherwise

D&C
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

I know what Mormonism is about. I was an active member for years and you should know that by now.

That is a falsehood that some Christians use to keep people from joining us.

So do you believe that your own leaders were telling lies?

“Our Master Teacher, the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, has also given us a simple formula, and there is a price to pay as well. His plan for us, and His doctrine, is clear and concise. He does not give trick questions, and He does not grade on the curve. He clearly wants everyone to live with Him in the Celestial Kingdom for He has stated:

“For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.1

“However, we must
earn the privilege to do so.”
Elder Mervyn B. Arnold, Our Book of Life, Brigham Young University–Idaho Devotional, January 29, 2008


In order to qualify for exaltation in the celestial kingdom, we must gain the trust of the Lord here on earth. We gain the trust of the Lord through
earning it,
and that is accomplished through our actual performance in living His gospel and keeping our covenants. In other words, we earn the trust of the Lord by doing His will.
Richard J. Maynes, “Keeping Our Covenants,” Ensign, Nov 2004, 92

“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned. "
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 305
 
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Rescued One

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Do you not hope to endure to the end?

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I sure hope I do.

We are promised we will endure.
 
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He is the way

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Maybe you don't know you have to earn eternal life, but your religion says otherwise

D&C
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

I know what Mormonism is about. I was an active member for years and you should know that by now.



So do you believe that your own leaders were telling lies?

“Our Master Teacher, the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, has also given us a simple formula, and there is a price to pay as well. His plan for us, and His doctrine, is clear and concise. He does not give trick questions, and He does not grade on the curve. He clearly wants everyone to live with Him in the Celestial Kingdom for He has stated:

“For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.1

“However, we must
earn the privilege to do so.”
Elder Mervyn B. Arnold, Our Book of Life, Brigham Young University–Idaho Devotional, January 29, 2008


In order to qualify for exaltation in the celestial kingdom, we must gain the trust of the Lord here on earth. We gain the trust of the Lord through
earning it,
and that is accomplished through our actual performance in living His gospel and keeping our covenants. In other words, we earn the trust of the Lord by doing His will.
Richard J. Maynes, “Keeping Our Covenants,” Ensign, Nov 2004, 92

“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned. "
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 305
You do NOT understand what we believe. As I have said many times, salvation is not by works neither is it without works. It is our duty to do good works and without them there is NO salvation, but works are NOT enough. We are saved by grace (the atonement) only after all that we can do.
 
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Rescued One

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You do NOT understand what we believe. As I have said many times, salvation is not by works neither is it without works. It is our duty to do good works and without them there is NO salvation, but works are NOT enough. We are saved by grace (the atonement) only after all that we can do.

You either don't believe your leaders or are proudly saying that you know more and don't believe your own scripture: D&C 130:21.
 
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John 10
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man
pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


Our Shepherd is not an hireling!
 
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Jamesone5

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No, you are NOT promised that you will endure.

If you have no true Faith in God, I guess you won't.

Here is the funny part you hve not figured out is that, you will have to suffer in the flesh like everyone else. No one get out of dying. The endurance part is whether or not you deny Christ---the true Christ at the very end. We go out shooting our six-guns or gun like Joseph Smith? Or do we realize like nothing can separate us from the Love of Christ-- Romans 8:35


Seems to be your problem, not ours.
 
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Jamesone5

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(New Testament | Revelation 3:5)

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(New Testament | Revelation 20:15)

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

(New Testament | Matthew 23:33)

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

(New Testament | Mark 9:43)

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

(New Testament | Luke 12:4 - 5)

4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
How could you understand the promise if you have a false Christ to start with?

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect
 
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He is the way

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You do NOT understand what we believe. As I have said many times, salvation is not by works neither is it without works. It is our duty to do good works and without them there is NO salvation, but works are NOT enough. We are saved by grace (the atonement) only after all that we can do.
D&C 130:21 is about blessings, not the atonement:
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 130:21)

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

The atonement is a gift, not a blessing:

(New Testament | Ephesians 2:8)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 
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Jamesone5

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D&C 130:21 is about blessings, not the atonement:
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 130:21)

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

The atonement is a gift, not a blessing:

(New Testament | Ephesians 2:8)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Once again talking to yourself.
 
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