Baptism

Not an attempt to censor. This just isn’t the forum to argue with Lutherans what they believe, and the OP asked this question specifically in the LCMS/WELS sub forum.

We’re all running the same race. Praying we all get to the same destination.

heal103 said:

I have a bit of a complicated church history.. I was raised Catholic and baptized as an infant in the Catholic church. At age 15, my family joined a Baptist church where I was baptized again by immersion. I have been a member of a lcms church for the past 20 years. I am going to israel on a tour next fall and part of the tour is a visit to thr jordan river where you can be baptized if you want to. I Would love to experience baptism in such a Holy place but can I? Is it allowed in the lutheran church to be baptized more than once? This is a once in a lifetime but I understand there is a belief in one baptism. What do you think? Is there anything wrong with getting baptized again in the jordan river? Thanks!

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No, I don’t think that there is anything wrong with being baptized again. I think it’s up to you and what you feel like God is telling you about it.

Religiot said:

If your statement were true, then the scriptures would be false.

PS: Your "reminder" is obviously a veiled attempt at censorship... ...I don't know of any Lutheran that would object to what I've said--could be you're not really Lutheran.

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@TKA_TN is correct. You are not teaching correct nor Lutheran doctrine and are making baptism a work. Baptism is a gift given with water and the word. You are in essence confusing Law and Gospel. This is what Scripture teaches and what our confessions teach. If you want to discuss the matter start a thread in another forum and address it to Lutherans and we can discuss in detail. This is not the arena to debate Lutheran doctrine.

consider the following before you start your thread:

Titus 3:4-6

Athanasius377 said:

@TKA_TN is correct. You are not teaching correct nor Lutheran doctrine and are making baptism a work. Baptism is a gift given with water and the word. You are in essence confusing Law and Gospel. This is what Scripture teaches and what our confessions teach. If you want to discuss the matter start a thread in another forum and address it to Lutherans and we can discuss in detail. This is not the arena to debate Lutheran doctrine.

consider the following before you start your thread:

Titus 3:4-6

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Truly, I've never had a Lutheran object to this... ...It seems I'm learning something new here.

No, I don't want to debate, but if you would be so kind, as to tell me what it is that I've said that you find contrary to the Lutheran Doctrine, I would be happy to consider it more deeply.

Perhaps I'm not following what you mean by gift vs works: cause I do believe that baptism is a gift, yet I'm not sure why you are saying that I think it's a work... Receiving is an action, but it is not a work to earn salvation--I don't mean that at all... The obedience I'm referring to, is the obedience to receive that which is free, etc.

If you wouldn't mind just briefly clarifying, I would truly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

Religiot said:

Truly, I've never had a Lutheran object to this... ...It seems I'm learning something new here.

No, I don't want to debate, but if you would be so kind, as to tell me what it is that I've said that you find contrary to the Lutheran Doctrine, I would be happy to consider it more deeply.

Perhaps I'm not following what you mean by gift vs works: cause I do believe that baptism is a gift, yet I'm not sure why you are saying that I think it's a work... Receiving is an action, but it is not a work to earn salvation--I don't mean that at all... The obedience I'm referring to, is the obedience to receive that which is free, etc.

If you wouldn't mind just briefly clarifying, I would truly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

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No worries brother. Forgive me if I need more time to fully answer or clarify to our position. I’m typing on a phone right now. I suspect our differences are of emphasis now that I more closely read your reply. I think we are closer than either of us realize. More to come when I get a chance to respond.

tampasteve said:

To be clear though, you are coming across several here, myself included. Please note that Lutherans also believe in infant baptism, not believer's baptism.

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To be exact, it's just two, including you; the first no longer thinks he objects, but believes we're on, essentially, the same page.

I am, however, extremely interested in knowing what you do find objectionable about what I've said. --I do not say this with any sarcasm, but with true sincerity, and for the expansion of my personal knowledge.

So any comment that would illustrate the objection is completely welcomed, and will be taken as constructive criticism.

Thanks in advance.

tampasteve said:

Thank you for the kind reply. I will do my best, but there are certainly others that are better at this than I





These would be the parts that I would object to. Lutherans do not believe that a person must repent towards God for a Baptism. We believe that the baptism is efficacious regardless as one does not need to be of a certain age to be baptized, one does not need to be able to profess a belief.

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Thanks for the reply!

Now here's where it gets confusing for me. The following 5min video clip shows a Lutheran priest advocating that babies have faith, tho they can't profess it:
I don't say that someone needs to verbally profess to be baptized--some people can't speak--nor do I object to baptizing babies or dedicating them to the Lord, but where I do object is in regards to repentance.

I think repentance is critical for salvation.

Yes, I know babies have nothing to repent of, nor could they repent, but they don't have to repent, because the Lord said, plainly, that the Kingdom of Heaven is already theirs; so whether or not a baby is baptized, their salvation is already assured.

Remember, the baptism that now saves us, who are not babies, is the answer of a good conscience toward God; thus, conscientiousness is required, and that it must be good toward God.

The Kingdom of Heaven already belongs to children, wherefore the Lord said that we must become like one of them (in our hearts), before we could enter in:

"And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them." --Mark 10:13-16

"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." --Matthew 18:1-6

So it does seem that we have a difference, but I'm not sure that it's irreconcilable.

Thanks again.