DRIVE THRU CONFESSION???

GodsGrace101 said:

Hi
You're the second poster that said confession imparts sanctifying grace.

I'm not catholic, but I know that it's Actual Grace.
Could you please give a source for YOUR information....
Past midnight here or I'd look it up.
I'd appreciate it.
'Night.

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St Paul explains in Ephesians:
Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it, that he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life, that he might present it to himself, a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The early Church coined the term Santifying Grace. I've also heard it referred to as "Grace of Justification." Sanctifying Grace's prefects the soul, just like St Paul describes.

Can't Catholics sometimes do more impersonal confessions. I remember once a RC priest having the entire congregation silently confess their sins while sitting in their pews followed by a blanket pronouncement of absolution for those who sincerely confessed with no prescribed penance. Is that still practiced anywhere in the RCC or was that a rogue priest? It seemed a little scandalous to my father at the time.

GodsGrace101 said:

Just a side note.
Actually the very early church DID start out doing confession the way you describe...However, the sins were said out loud and this became a problem.

It would be interesting for you to do a short study on how the confession we have today came about.
Church history is important to know,,,it's a shame more are not interested - especially we Protestants...we don't care at all about church history because we feel it's a "catholic thing".
This is unfortunate.

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Now I'm wondering if they did a horse and cart drive thru confession during the black plague?

Chris V++ said:

Now I'm wondering if they did a horse and cart drive thru confession during the black plague?

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GodsGrace101 said:

Just a side note.
Actually the very early church DID start out doing confession the way you describe...However, the sins were said out loud and this became a problem.

It would be interesting for you to do a short study on how the confession we have today came about.
Church history is important to know,,,it's a shame more are not interested - especially we Protestants...we don't care at all about church history because we feel it's a "catholic thing".
This is unfortunate.

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Very unfortunate, indeed.

GodsGrace101 said:

Right!
12:23 A.M. here.
Good night!

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Have a good night. It is 5:39 p.m. here - almost time for dinner,

Michie said:

Oh I agree. It won’t be forever.

A very strange Lent it been!

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Our deacon called it, "the Lentiest Lent he had ever had"

bbbbbbb said:

the massive doctrine of auricular confession of all sins.

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Spoken confession of sins is what the verse is about and auricular means "heard" that is, spoken and heard by another. So what is the wrenching out of context?

bbbbbbb said:

told him to call for the elders (not the priest, nor even a set of priests

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"elders" in Greek is presbyters and presbyter is the root for the English word priest.

so the verses do in fact ask for the priests to come and hear the confession and the priests are to pray for the sick that he may be heard because the prayers of "a righteous man avails much". Presumably the priests were accounted righteous men of good reputation and good example.

bbbbbbb said:

When was the last time your priest anointed you with oil when you were sick and confessed your sins to him?

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I am not a Catholic so I do not go to confess to a Catholic priest but it is common for Catholics to be anointed especially the sick. Catholics have a rite called "the anointing of the sick" where the sick are anointed with chrism oil.

Those who offer a critique of Catholic practise ought to find out what it is so that their critique will be accurate.

bbbbbbb said:

So, now that folks here are okie-dokie with drive-through confession, but not telephone confessions, what do you think about Skype confessions?

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I think that imagination can run away - very far away - from reality.

concretecamper said:

In the Sacrament of confession, the priest forgives sins.

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In the sacrament of confession the priest absolves sins he does not forgive them. I see that you are a Catholic while I am not but I urge you to ask a priest or bishop if they teach and if the Catholic Church teaches that priests forgive sins as distinct from absolving sins.

GingerBeer said:

Spoken confession of sins is what the verse is about and auricular means "heard" that is, spoken and heard by another. So what is the wrenching out of context?

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First, of course, is that I did not reference any biblical verse, so one cannot say that I "wrenched" a verse out of context. My reference was to the massive body of doctrine that has accrued over the centuries in the Catholic church regarding the auricular confession of sins. If you wish I can cite at least 31 direct teachings regarding confession from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Over time confession in the Catholic Church has morphed from individual confession of sins to God alone to specific practices centered on confession of sins to an ordained priest.

GingerBeer said:

I think that imagination can run away - very far away - from reality.

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A year ago I dare say had anyone proposed the notion of drive-through confession you would have had the same comment. Reality, such as we know it, is getting more imaginative each day.

GingerBeer said:

I am not a Catholic so I do not go to confess to a Catholic priest but it is common for Catholics to be anointed especially the sick. Catholics have a rite called "the anointing of the sick" where the sick are anointed with chrism oil.

Those who offer a critique of Catholic practise ought to find out what it is so that their critique will be accurate.

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I am well aware of extreme unction and the anointing of sick parishioners. However, the context in James, which is used to justify the Catholic practice of auricular confession of sins to a priest, ignores James' context in significant ways - calling for the elders of the church (several men who would come to a person's home) rather than having the sick person go to a church to meet with a clergyman and including confession of sins as part and parcel with the anointing with oil of the sick person. There is no mention or confessing sins for its own sake, much less a distinction between mortal and venial sins,

GingerBeer said:

"elders" in Greek is presbyters and presbyter is the root for the English word priest.

so the verses do in fact ask for the priests to come and hear the confession and the priests are to pray for the sick that he may be heard because the prayers of "a righteous man avails much". Presumably the priests were accounted righteous men of good reputation and good example.

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Presbyter is translated in English as elder, which is precisely its meaning in Greek. There is a commonly held myth loosely based on the fact that presbyter and priest share the two same first letters, that they are synonymous. Were that true, the English translations of the Bible would use "priest" instead of elder. There is a perfectly fine word in Greek for priest (Ιερέας) which is used more frequently in the New Testament. James chose not to use it, however. The argument that presbyters are synonymous with a priest is baseless.

There is also the niggling problem of the plurality of these men. James uses πρεσβυτέρες rather than πρεσβυτέρε. If confession is properly made to a priest (singular) why did James not say so?