SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

Dkh587 said:

Also, the Pharoah had magicians that could do several things that Moses and Aaron could do...

they were able to turn their staffs into snakes, they turned water into blood, and even got frogs to come out of the water onto the land of Egypt.

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pasifika said:

Those are not miracles

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Dkh587 said:

Have you raised somebody from the dead?

there is no requirement to raise the dead, heal the blind, or cast demons out in order to keep the Sabbath holy.

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Dkh587 said:

Also, the Pharoah had magicians that could do several things that Moses and Aaron could do...

they were able to turn their staffs into snakes, they turned water into blood, and even got frogs to come out of the water onto the land of Egypt.

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Jesse Johnson said:

Please give Scripture references for signs and wonders being called good works.

Here, let me help:

Bible Search: good work

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pasifika said:

Whoever claims to live in Him, must live as Jesus did..

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pasifika said:

The apostles did raise one from the dead...that is where we as Christians must show 1John 4:17....in this world we are like Jesus, 1John 2:6...

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Jesse Johnson said:

Should we accept worship, absolve sins? Be transfigured, die on a cross? You're making blanket statements that prove too much, and therefore nothing, as someone said earlier. The Bible is not a buffet dinner. Key doctrines have to have a solid foundation. Emphasis on spiritual gifts is fanaticism. Religion is not sensational excitement. Jesus spoke of this very error in one of the most fearful warnings in the Bible:

Matthew 7:19-23 KJV Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

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Jesse Johnson said:

Heaven will be an awfully lonely place with no one there except for apostles.

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LoveGodsWord said:

Again more nonsense which does not address anything in the OP. This is what the OP is about but your only quoting what the OP is about without addressing anything in the OP that disagrees with your understanding of COLOSSIANS 2:16.

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These include;

1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54
9. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

A detailed scripture response starting here for those interested.

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]

The Sabbath is a part of the FINISHED WORK of creation as it is written...

GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], THIS THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH WERE FINISHED, AND ALL THE HOST OF THEM. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.


to be continued...

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LoveGodsWord said:

Indeed, we have looked at your two scriptures in detail proving through the scriptures alone that they are not saying what you are claiming they are saying with multiple scriptures as provided above. We should indeed also look to the writings of JESUS and the APOSTLES to see what they teach about the God's LAW and the Sabbath.

WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW AND THE SABBATH?
(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive)

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matthew 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matthew 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matthew 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Corinthians 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Romans 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Romans 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Hebrews 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2 Timothy 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Ephesians 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Romans 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Romans 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Romans 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Romans 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Romans 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Romans 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Romans 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Romans 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Galatians 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Romans 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Romans 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Romans 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Hebrews 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Revelation 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Peter 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Peter 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Peter 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Peter 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Peter 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Peter 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Peter 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Peter 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Peter 3:5-14)

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10)

Yep they are not saying what your saying. JESUS and the Apostles are teaching the law and the Sabbath established through faith. Does this not worry you? It should.

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LoveGodsWord said:

Not really JLB. This OP is developed around COLOSSIANS 2:16 and all the scriptures from the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT that PAUL is referring to and examines both the within scripture and chapted CONTEXT of COLOSSIANS 2.

All you have managed to do is to ignore all the scriptures in the OP that disagree with you and state the scripture that the OP is discussing without discussing anything in the OP.

If you disagree with anything posted here your welcome to prove your claims. All you have done throughout this thread is repeat the scriptures that OP is discussing and talking about without discussing anything within the OP to prove anything you have said here. If you cannot prove your claims, why not believe the scriptures that show what COLOSSIANS 2:16 is talking about as it is God's Word not mine.

May you receive Gods' Word and be blessed. If we ignore it then it does not make God's Word disappear. According to JESUS all those who knowingly follow man made teaching and tradition that breaks the commandments of God are not following God. Many do this out of ignorance and God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of His truth calls all men everywhere to believe and follow His Word *ACTS 17:30-31.

If we have been given a knowledge of the truth and reject Gods' Word in order to follow sin according to the scriptures there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *HEBREWS 10:26-39.

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy. day. This is a man made teaching and tradition that has lead many to break the commandments of God.

Who should we believe and follow; God or man? I know who I believe and follow and it is not you my dear friend as it is written we ought to obey God rather than man *ACTS 5:29.

Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4.

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Jesse Johnson said:

And ending with this:

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:1-17

No mention of the ten commandments being abolished. Just written on human hearts.

bro
.

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pasifika said:

1Corinthians 11:1...Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ...

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pasifika said:

I think your view of our transformation into be like Christ is very small...

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JLB777 said:

You got me confused with someone else.

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JLB777 said:

I have never said the 10 Commandments were abolished.

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JLB777 said:

Do you ever bother to read what I write?

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JLB777 said:

Do you keep the law of Moses?

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JLB777 said:

If you disagree with Colossians 2:14-17 the please show us where Jesus commanded the Church to specifically observe the Sabbath the way the children of Israel were commanded.



having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:14-17


Please show us anywhere in these verses or any other, where the Church is commanded to be called Seventh Day Adventist, and follow the teachings of Ellen G White, and attend meetings on Saturday.




JLB

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LoveGodsWord said:

I do not disagree with COLOSSIANS 2:16-17.

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LoveGodsWord said:

have already spent considerable time answering all of your questions while you simply ignore the posts and scriptures shared with you and the OP here. You also ignore the questions that are asked of you to help the dicussion, while expecting me to answer all of your questions. A discussion goes two ways my friend. Now where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? Here let me help you.

There is no scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day, and if there is no scripture, why do you not keep God's 4th commandment Sabbath? Something to think about. You are free to believe as you wish as we all answer only to God come judgment day. Until then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

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