Has Covid-19 changed/refined anyone's beliefs about how God heals today?

Guojing

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You seem to have a very narrow view of signs and wonders. Besides, if you've been infected with Covid19 and God instantly healed you, how would you even know? Doesn't He say that the best way to give us in secret? Wouldn't God do things the best way?
The best way while Jesus was on earth was exactly how they happen. Does that mean it's the best way now? In every instance?
When the plague came while David was king, prayers and sacrifice stopped it.
But, for your original question: no. This hasn't changed anything. Why would it? I haven't thought much on if I will get it or not. I haven't stocked up. I've been think more about how I can help others.
I'm older, I have every risk factor for making it more serious, but nothing can touch me unless God lets it. Live or die, I trust Him.

Thanks for the question. See my previous reply to another in this thread here, #18, and let me know your perspective.

Has Covid-19 changed/refined anyone's beliefs about how God heals today?
 
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Guojing

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I am glad personal experience, doubts or opinions of others do not change the word of God. If you notice in Psalm 91 there are thousands falling at the right or left. Here is on commentary on this verse. Psalm 91:7 (KJV)
7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. "The meaning is, "Though a thousand, or even ten thousand, should fall beside thee, in battle, or through pestilence, or sunstroke," yet - It shall not come nigh thee - the danger, whatever it be, shall not touch thy person; thou shalt be protected from it."

So those Christians that get infected with covid-19, did they believe in Psalms 91 too?
 
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Nancy Hale

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Thanks for the question. See my previous reply to another in this thread here, #18, and let me know your perspective.

Has Covid-19 changed/refined anyone's beliefs about how God heals today?
I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote. Or, the questioned you asked.
Are you implying that because Jesus raised someone from the grave, and Jesus doesn't change, he should raise every believer here on earth?
Sorry, that's the only thing I can surmise from your posts.
 
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With Covid-19, we have seen how many churches, even megachurches who strongly believe that the signs and wonders of Jesus in the 4 Gospels are still present for us today, having to switch to online service broadcasts, and stopping their healing groups from going around praying for healing.

What happen to these churches who often teach us the following:
  1. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Hebrews 13:8
  2. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12
  3. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mark 16:17-18
We read about how churches, who still insist on gathering today and going against social distancing, some of them ended up being new clusters of covid-19, and even today, I read about Rodney Howard Browne being arrested by the police. Florida police arrest pastor Rodney Howard-Browne - CNN

Anyone has their views about how God heals today being modified by this real life incident?

For me, my view has been refined to this, covid-19 has shown that the era of healing as "signs and wonders" is truly over. If Jesus were to come to earth now, as he did during the 4 Gospels, he would have healed people with covid-19 who are brought to him, to show us a sign that he is God among us.

But now, in the present evil age , as Paul would say in Galatians 1:4, there are no more signs and wonders to expect, the body of Christ is groaning in our earthly bodies, waiting eagerly for the rapture and our bodies to be transformed into one just like Christ had when he resurrected.

Until that comes to past, healing is not guaranteed to anyone. Just as Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:20 that "Trophimus I left at Miletus sick.", and advise his "son" Timothy to drink a little wine instead of the dirty water because of his illness in 1 Timothy 5:23, likewise, the church is to exercise common sense, wash their hands, and practice social distancing.

Any views from interested Christians?
My views have remained the same - God heals when He heals. And He doesn't heal when He doesn't.

And I'm thankful for the God-given vocation of doctors and researchers and scientists.

What this is challenging is my doctrine of place and mission. All those plans to go here and minister there... all thought were God's ideas, God's call, and then borders are shut, and then maybe it wasn't God's idea after all, maybe just mine or ours. That's what I'm wrestling with.
 
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Guojing

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I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote. Or, the questioned you asked.
Are you implying that because Jesus raised someone from the grave, and Jesus doesn't change, he should raise every believer here on earth?
Sorry, that's the only thing I can surmise from your posts.

No, I was trying to point out the difference between:
  • signs and wonders of Jesus's miracles during the 4 Gospels,
  • and the miracles healings we see nowadays.
Surely, objective people can tell that these 2 are very different? You want to say they are the same?
 
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GirdYourLoins

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I had my view on healing changed a year or two ago. I now see it as two distinct types of healing. One I think of as just healing is the gradual healing of a sickness or injury over time, it is not instant but does include a return to full health. The only exception possibly being a thorn in the flesh as Paul had.

The second type of healing is what I call miraculous healing which is the instant healing we see in some of these meetings. I see this more as a gift of miracles in the modern church than a gift of healing.

There is one aspect of COVID 19 that I have not seen anyone else mention. It is that when Jesus died on the cross he was completely alone, rejected by even his disciples. Part of crucifixion is that as you die on the cross you cannot lift your head which results in struggling to breathe. COVID 19 is resulting in people being alone in their hospital beds, on ventilators unable to breathe. They are left alone, many not even with medical staff with them, to die.

This comparison of the cross and COVID 19 brings the suffering of Jesus to the forefront of my mind and this comparison is what I have not seen mentioned.

I have felt for several years that the church has moved away from Jesus too much. The church worldwide seems to have one focus which is to thank the Father for what he does for us. It seems to me to be very self-centred and focused on what we get out of it. Jesus has been "demoted" to just a "tool" to bring us closer to the Father. Jesus is our saviour, redeemer, Lord and much much more. If nothing else, if COVID 19 brings us back to Jesus some good can come out of the current situation.
 
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Nancy Hale

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No, I was trying to point out the difference between:
  • signs and wonders of Jesus's miracles during the 4 Gospels,
  • and the miracles healings we see nowadays.
Surely, objective people can tell that these 2 are very different? You want to say they are the same?
The question that your title is and the point you are trying to get to with your post make this a bit confusing.
I don't want to answer your question, it feels like a trap.
Are you actually asking me if I think God can do miracles in this day and age? Yes, I've seen them. He does them still; actual instant, inexplicable acts before multiple people (or one person, I doubt that matters)
If you are expanding on my previous statement: I was referring to what I felt you would require to consider Gods hand in something from your previous comments.
This post is something other than I expected it to be, clearly.
 
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Nancy Hale

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My views have remained the same - God heals when He heals. And He doesn't heal when He doesn't.

And I'm thankful for the God-given vocation of doctors and researchers and scientists.

What this is challenging is my doctrine of place and mission. All those plans to go here and minister there... all thought were God's ideas, God's call, and then borders are shut, and then maybe it wasn't God's idea after all, maybe just mine or ours. That's what I'm wrestling with.
The part I'm wrestling with is that most people are being sent home to their country of origin. That just makes no logical sense to me.
I think it goes with what you are wrestling with, but I don't want to change topics.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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With Covid-19, we have seen how many churches, even megachurches who strongly believe that the signs and wonders of Jesus in the 4 Gospels are still present for us today, having to switch to online service broadcasts, and stopping their healing groups from going around praying for healing.

What happen to these churches who often teach us the following:
  1. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Hebrews 13:8
  2. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12
  3. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mark 16:17-18
We read about how churches, who still insist on gathering today and going against social distancing, some of them ended up being new clusters of covid-19, and even today, I read about Rodney Howard Browne being arrested by the police. Florida police arrest pastor Rodney Howard-Browne - CNN

Anyone has their views about how God heals today being modified by this real life incident?

For me, my view has been refined to this, covid-19 has shown that the era of healing as "signs and wonders" is truly over. If Jesus were to come to earth now, as he did during the 4 Gospels, he would have healed people with covid-19 who are brought to him, to show us a sign that he is God among us.

But now, in the present evil age , as Paul would say in Galatians 1:4, there are no more signs and wonders to expect, the body of Christ is groaning in our earthly bodies, waiting eagerly for the rapture and our bodies to be transformed into one just like Christ had when he resurrected.

Until that comes to past, healing is not guaranteed to anyone. Just as Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:20 that "Trophimus I left at Miletus sick.", and advise his "son" Timothy to drink a little wine instead of the dirty water because of his illness in 1 Timothy 5:23, likewise, the church is to exercise common sense, wash their hands, and practice social distancing.

Any views from interested Christians?

The era of signs and wonders in not over. I have had a small outreach going on Facebook for a few years where I offered healing prayer for people who wanted it. One Muslim man accepted prayer and was healed, he told me after prayer he regained strength to his body. To such a degree that he sough me out to know about faith in Jesus.

I also work as a computer programmer and have a long term client, whom I see more as a friend. While working on His website he brought up the fact that his daughter was very ill, she had developed Ulcerative Colitis, and had extreme pain and bleeding. He mentioned that doctors had told him it had no cure, and she would be on harsh medications to treat its symptoms for life. The father was saddened for his daughter, for he loved her. I having seen God heal in the past asked if he would mind if we could pray for her. He said he would appreciate it. So I set about to pray, to God for his daughter. That Sunday I also put a prayer request in the churches @SCFcentral prayer box. A month or so passed, and I received a work related call from the father. He ended the call by telling me, he did not know everything about God and healing, but his daughter was now well. So well that they were able to take the medications they were using right down. He thanked us for the prayer, and was confident that his daughter would stay well.

So you might ask where is all the faith, at this time. Well when the virus first came I began to pray in faith against it, fully believing God would end it. When I saw no signs of turn around, I thought back to a vision that I received before the virus was here in Australia, where I heard a voice declare out "invade them", with a curse, referencing the sin of pandering to homosexuality. This then made me think, God has sent this virus to judge the earth, he may not heal everybody at this time, He may be allowing it.

I am still seeking the LORD as to how to respond to the sickness, and if and when I should pray, i am truly conflicted in Spirit. I know at least that God's promise to His people is that of Psalm 91, a promise of shelter in the time of disease; so as for my self I truly believe God will keep me well, according to his promise.
 
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Guojing

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I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote. Or, the questioned you asked.
Are you implying that because Jesus raised someone from the grave, and Jesus doesn't change, he should raise every believer here on earth?
Sorry, that's the only thing I can surmise from your posts.

Another example that I pointed elsewhere in this thread in the Bethel church attempt to resurrect that young girl who died.

This is the same Bethel that gave us all those wonderful songs No Longer Slaves, Way Maker, Living Hope, Raise a Hallelujah, Goodness of God , King of my Heart,

They obviously believe in signs and wonders being present today. Yet, all their believing in faith that Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever, resulted in no resurrection. Their pastor have to release this


Something has obviously change now right?
 
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Guojing

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The era of signs and wonders in not over. I have had a small outreach going on Facebook for a few years where I offered healing prayer for people who wanted it. One Muslim man accepted prayer and was healed, he told me after prayer he regained strength to his body. To such a degree that he sough me out to know about faith in Jesus.

I also work as a computer programmer and have a long term client, whom I see more as a friend. While working on His website he brought up the fact that his daughter was very ill, she had developed Ulcerative Colitis, and had extreme pain and bleeding. He mentioned that doctors had told him it had no cure, and she would be on harsh medications to treat its symptoms for life. The father was saddened for his daughter, for he loved her. I having seen God heal in the past asked if he would mind if we could pray for her. He said he would appreciate it. So I set about to pray, to God for his daughter. That Sunday I also put a prayer request in the churches @SCFcentral prayer box. A month or so passed, and I received a work related call from the father. He ended the call by telling me, he did not know everything about God and healing, but his daughter was now well. So well that they were able to take the medications they were using right down. He thanked us for the prayer, and was confident that his daughter would stay well.

So you might ask where is all the faith, at this time. Well when the virus first came I began to pray in faith against it, fully believing God would end it. When I saw no signs of turn around, I thought back to a vision that I received before the virus was here in Australia, where I heard a voice declare out "invade them", with a curse, referencing the sin of pandering to homosexuality. This then made me think, God has sent this virus to judge the earth, he may not heal everybody at this time, He may be allowing it.

I am still seeking the LORD as to how to respond to the sickness, and if and when I should pray, i am truly conflicted in Spirit. I know at least that God's promise to His people is that of Psalm 91, a promise of shelter in the time of disease; so as for my self I truly believe God will keep me well, according to his promise.

Thanks for your reply. I would like to ask though, if you believe that the era of signs and wonders is not over, what do you think are their roles NOW?

If someone perform a sign, what is it suppose to point out to the rest of us?
 
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Jamdoc

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Even in the days of Jesus and the Apostles, many were healed but not every person in the world. People still got sick, and still died.
God will still heal people miraculously, but not everyone, not even everyone who asks, if He did, it wouldn't be seen as miracle, it'd be mundane, rather than holy.
When a miracle occurs, it's going to be something out of the ordinary, where it cannot be for any other reason than the hand of God, to give Him glory. If it happens every single time, people will find another explanation and it no longer glorifies God, does that make sense?
 
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Thanks for your reply. I would like to ask though, if you believe that the era of signs and wonders is not over, what do you think are their roles NOW?

If someone perform a sign, what is it suppose to point out to the rest of us?

The bible said that the spiritual gifts that God gives to the church are used for "building up the church, till we all come to a perfect knowledge of the truth". People who see signs from God are more likely to believe, imagine a world where God never intervened in the affairs of men, unbelief would be rampant. As for what is their purpose right NOW. Well lets take Psalm 91, or a portion of it.

Psa 91:7-10 You will see a thousand falling by your side, and ten thousand at your right hand; but it will not come near you. Only with your eyes will you see the reward of the evil-doers. Because you have said, I am in the hands of the Lord, the Most High is my safe resting-place; No evil will come on you, and no disease will come near your tent.

This Psalm talks about a plague, it says that a thousand may fall beside you, and why? It is the reward for evil doing. Would God send a prophet to the evil doers to "heal them", and the answer is no, their time for healing has passed. But He (God) provides a place of refuge in the time of plague, a place of safety and healing for those who seek Him.

So that is why I am conflicted, I can't just rise up and say Jesus heals you all, although as believers we have that power. For if God be judging the earth he will not answer that type of prayer.

Yet my heart remains open to pray, and to seek miracles at this time, but how, and when is important.
 
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tturt

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No this virus hasnt changed my views based on Scripture- God still heals Jehovah Rapha is our healer

He created us so He can certainly heal us.Psa 139:13,, Mal 2;10

There are believers who are praying for every person concerning this situation
 
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I dont have faith in healers. Does anyone have this kind of faith? Can you manipulate the weather?

James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective [o]prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed [p]earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. 18 Then he prayed again, and the [q]sky [r]poured rain and the earth produced its fruit.
 
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Bobber

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So far, those with covid-19 are all healed thru "natural means",

You don't know that. And would you actually expect CNN to report someone was prayed for and was healed? To know what you're seeking to claim you'd have to have infinite knowledge of billions of people on the earth. You don't so sorry but you're being very much presumptuous in your statement.
 
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Guojing

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You don't know that. And would you actually expect CNN to report someone was prayed for and was healed? To know what you're seeking to claim you'd have to have infinite knowledge of billions of people on the earth. You don't so sorry but you're being very much presumptuous in your statement.

Feel free to prove me wrong, by pointing out any news link that recorded a miracle cure of covid 19.

I have discussed this with others a few times in this thread already, the difference between a sign during the 4 Gospels era, and the miracle healings that are claimed to have happened these days.

Has Covid-19 changed/refined anyone's beliefs about how God heals today?
 
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Bobber

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I dont have faith in healers. Does anyone have this kind of faith? Can you manipulate the weather?

James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective [o]prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed [p]earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. 18 Then he prayed again, and the [q]sky [r]poured rain and the earth produced its fruit.
Might I kindly suggest you're missing the whole point of the passage. The Holy Spirit through James was talking about this was for the reason is to exhort people to believe that even the most biggest things imaginable YES like changing the weather by a righteous man praying can occur.

Now keep this in mind.....if you're talking about praying rain stopped on a nation for over three years I'm confident such a prayer would never be answered unless it was in the exact will of God but I'll tell you I've seen people pray for church gatherings to be held in parks with rain on the way and the storm veers off an entirely different direction.

You might say only a coincidence but why should we accept such a dismissal of people praying for good weather and seeing it realized? If a group prays for good weather and they get it should they not be thanking God for it? Does that mean we can as you say "manipulate" the weather or cause it to be changed with our any whim? Of course not. But don't go down the road and say weather can't be changed by prayer. I'd encourage you to consider there's a lot of things God might do for his children.
 
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Guojing

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No this virus hasnt changed my views based on Scripture- God still heals Jehovah Rapha is our healer

He created us so He can certainly heal us.Psa 139:13,, Mal 2;10

There are believers who are praying for every person concerning this situation

Yes, I agree he still heals, no one is denying that.

But do you agree there is a significant difference in the healings we see today, and the healings that were done as sign and wonders in the 4 gospels?

Why is there that difference?
 
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