The Saint Steve Highlights of Christ Triumphant

com7fy8 · Mar 30, 2020

FineLinen said:
the true meaning of the words aion and aionios

So, you agree it is possible to spin the meaning of a word to say what you want people to think it means.

And ones have our motives for making words mean what we may claim.

And those who claim there is hell can say this is because God is just.

Meanwhile, others who deny hell will say they are right because God is just.

So, anyone can spin the "God is just" argument to suit their purpose.

And each one can point to someone they claim is surely an authority to back up what they say.

But God knows. And no one can change what's really going to happen.

Now, I will just offer what I have picked up. I do not claim to be an expert who can know which scholars really know what they are talking about, in their claims about study of the Greek from which the New Testament has been translated. I am not an expert to know who is really qualified and who isn't.

But I do find the English translation work of God's word is enough to minister me to be with God and find out how to relate in His love with people.

So . . . for one thing, I have not read anywhere that Jesus or His New Testament writers say people will be in hell only until they are corrected so they come out. This is not actually stated, anywhere, that I can quote.

People are already in torment, and God has not brought a lot of sinners out of their torment >

"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

There is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2).

This evil and stupidly selfish spirit of Satan is messing people, and they are going where Satan's vile and filthing spirit will go . . . unless they trust in Jesus and stop containing Satan's filthy and nasty stuff, such as unforgiveness and conceit, arguing and complaining, boredom and loneliness, anger and wrath and frustration and ill-temperedness, and dominating and dictatorial drives for pleasure and excitement. These things are on their way to the flaming sewer.

Their character makes them able to have these anti-love things in them, while they suffer torment, including because of worry and fear > 1 John 4:18.

By the way, we have Hebrews 12:29 >

"For our God is a consuming fire." (Hebrews 12:29)

But we in Jesus do not suffer torment of being burned by God who is "a consuming fire". Because in Jesus our character is compatible with God's love. But a person with a selfish character can burn. And that nasty filth of selfishness needs be somewhere. And we can see how stubborn people are; they can even suffer so greatly, yet they do not turn to Christ for how He can give them "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)

They are so stubborn, that I can see how the fire of hell is the only thing that can control them. That is not the fire's fault, I would say; their own character is their real problem.

Ones say hell is for correction. Why the procrastination? God is now correcting us who are His children > Hebrews 12:4-14 < now is the time.

FineLinen · Mar 30, 2020

com7fy8 said:
So, you agree it is possible to spin the meaning of a word to say what you want people to think it means.

One can spin their little brains out, or their wee wheels till the rubber disappears.

An adjective does not have greater scope than the noun upon which it is based. Aion is the noun, aionios is the adjective.

The Apostle John defines aionios in 9 (nine) concise words that manifest the scope of aionios, not as a time word, but as a dimension of quality for both aionios kolasis & aionios zōē.

"This IS aionios zōē , that we may know You.."

Der Alte · Mar 30, 2020

FineLinen said:
...

FineLinen said:
One can spin their little brains out, or their wee wheels till the rubber disappears.
An adjective does not have greater scope than the noun upon which it is based. Aion is the noun, aionios is the adjective.
The Apostle John defines aionios in 9 (nine) concise words that manifest the scope of aionios, not as a time word, but as a dimension of quality for both aionios kolasis & aionios zōē.
"This IS aionios zōē , that we may know You.."

Unfortunately there are 31,172 verses in the Bible 31,171 more verses than you quoted. Anyone with reasonable comprehension should know that "knowledge" does not literally equate to "life," therefore Jesus was speaking figuratively,.
I have heard these wild speculations for more than 2 decades on this forum. And I have seen the accredited lexicons such as Bauer, Danker, Arndt, and Gingrich pooh-poohed as biased etc. A long time ago I decided to do my own word study in the N.T. I reviewed every occurrence of αἰώνιος/aionios and I found that twenty-four verses define aionios by being paired or contrasted with other adjectives. This list has never been refuted.
Aion and aionios sometimes refer to things which clearly are not eternal. But neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following verses.
…..In 9 of these verses Jesus has defined “aionios” as eternal.
Jesus used “aionios” twenty nine times. He never used “aionios to refer to anything that was clearly not eternal.
In 10 verses Paul has defined “aionios” as eternal. Jesus uses "aionios" twenty nine times and He never uses it to refer to something that is clearly not eternal.
In twenty four [24] of the following verses aion and aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by comparison or contrast with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
List of verses cited:1 Timothy 1:17, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, 2 Corinthians 5:1, Hebrews 7:24, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, Galatians 6:8, John 6:58, John 10:20, 1 John 2:17, 1 Peter 5:10, Romans 2:7, Luke 1:33,Revelation 14:11, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 8:51, Ephesians 3:21, Romans 1:20, Romans 5:21, Romans 16:26, John 3:36 , John 4:14, John 6:27

[1] Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[2] Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.

[3] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos]

In this verse the reign basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.

[4] 2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]

In this passage “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[5] 2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.

In this verse “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[6] Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.

In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”

[7] 1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.

In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”

[8] 1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [/aionios]

In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”

[9] Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]

In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”

[10] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios]

In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[11] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”

[12]1 John 2:17
(17) The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. [aion]

In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “pass away,” “lives aionios” cannot mean a finite period, which is is not opposite of “pass away.” Thus “lives aionios” by definition here means “lives eternally.”

[Character limit. Continued next post]

Der Alte · Mar 30, 2020

[Post #183 continued]

[13]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.

In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “little while” Does Jesus give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die? Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”

[14] Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.

In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”

[15] 1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.

In this verse “aion” is paired with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”

[16] Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paired with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”

[17] John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.
[18] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.

[19] John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[20] Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death, “eternal life” is. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”

[21] Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.

In this verse “tou aionios ton aionion” is paired with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.

[22] John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

In this verse aionios life is contrasted with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.

[23] John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.

In this verse aionios is contrasted with “shall never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[24] John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

In this verse “aionios meat” is contrasted with “meat that perishes” .” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[25] John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona] see death."

According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent

"The double negative [ou mé] signifies in nowise, by no means. [theorese], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally."

com7fy8 · Mar 31, 2020

FineLinen said:
a dimension of quality for both aionios kolasis & aionios zōē.

"This IS aionios zōē , that we may know You.."

And to know Jesus is eternal . . . for all eternity. So, this use could mean not only for an age.

Now, I think of this :idea:

> if you age some cheese, that takes a limited period of time > an age > to cure the cheese which then has become aged, meaning it has a lasting quality which goes longer . . . as aged cheese . . . than just the limited period of time used to age it. So, now it has an age, meaning a lasting quality

So, the same word for age can have a limited-time or a longer meaning.

And in English we have words with exact opposite meanings, and/or multiple meanings totally different than one another. A "citation" can mean a reprimand or an honor. A key can mean a piano key, or an island, or a door key, or the word can have to do with a key idea.

So, people can make their preset conclusions the dictators of what they dictate a word means.

But the Bible says there is fire > of hell, and "our God is a consuming fire" (Hebrews 12:29), and it says the guy looking at Lazarus and Abraham was in torment in fire, and Revelation says people will look at Jesus and be tormented, instead of loving and admiring and appreciating Jesus who is so unconceited that He came to this earth and shared with us and then suffered and died with hope for any evil person, at all. Demons cried out that they were afraid Jesus would torment them, when it does not say He was doing anything in order to torment them; of course, I would not guarantee that anything a demon is says is reliable. But it does say evil people will be tormented with fire and brimstone, right in the presence of Jesus > Revelation 14:10.

It doesn't say they will be corrected. Being with Jesus did not correct those demons, nor did being with Jesus keep Satan from rebelling in Heaven. Because the character of pride can be a person's dictator, no matter what proof is right in the person's face; look at how those evil people had the proof of Jesus healing people and raising Lazarus from the dead, but still they wanted to kill Him. They had proof in their faces!!

But Hebrews 12:4-14 clearly says God's children will be corrected, and how this will have them become > "partakers of His holiness" in His love's "peaceable fruit of righteousness"; and God's word says we have this "in this world" > 1 John 4:17 > and we all have been in pride; all of us have needed this correction. He has changed our character so we can benefit from Him, like this; because plenty of people are told and they go through what could correct them, but their own character is their cruel dictator which keeps them from benefitting from what could help them.

The character of God's love in us will last for eternity, because of its unchanging quality.

But the stubborn self-seeking character of the spirit of selfishness (in Ephesians 2:2) will not change itself, no matter what the circumstances and proof.

Saint Steven · Mar 31, 2020

com7fy8 said:
So, people can make their preset conclusions the dictators of what they dictate a word means.

I like this OT description of the day of God's wrath.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

com7fy8 · Mar 31, 2020

Saint Steven said:
I like this OT description of the day of God's wrath.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

This can be understood in different ways, in relation to if there will be permanent or corrective fire of hell.

Yes, fire can refine an individual. And ones say, therefore God's refining fire will correct everyone, now or later in fire of hell . . . so then all are with God.

Others can argue that God's refining fire is separating evil people from God's children, and then the separation will be permanent.

So, ones can use the same scripture, here, to mean different results.

But, in amy case, the one who benefits from God's refining is obeying how God has the person being corrected. And that same fire can burn away the ones who disobey, and then that fire can keep them away and under control.

Meanwhile, that same fire can keep and protect the ones who submit to God.

FineLinen · Mar 31, 2020

com7fy8 said:
And to know Jesus is eternal . . . for all eternity. So, this use could mean not only for an age.

Knowing the Lord Jesus Christ is an ongoing experience with many dimensions of union in Him. It is not based in ages, but in the Realm in which He dwells with Abba who alone is aidios.

Aionios is knowing Him, & in knowing Him a new dimension breaks upon the one experiencing that wonderful dimension of fullness.

"This IS aionios zōē , that we may know You.."

Saint Steven · Mar 31, 2020

com7fy8 said:
This can be understood in different ways, in relation to if there will be permanent or corrective fire of hell.

Yes, fire can refine an individual. And ones say, therefore God's refining fire will correct everyone, now or later in fire of hell . . . so then all are with God.

Others can argue that God's refining fire is separating evil people from God's children, and then the separation will be permanent.

So, ones can use the same scripture, here, to mean different results.

But, in amy case, the one who benefits from God's refining is obeying how God has the person being corrected. And that same fire can burn away the ones who disobey, and then that fire can keep them away and under control.

Meanwhile, that same fire can keep and protect the ones who submit to God.

Here are some scriptures below to consider along with the rest. We are told that every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus Christ as Lord. This will happen, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead). See Phil.2:10-11 --- We are also told that "... no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." - 1 Corinthians 12:3 -- And that if we declare with our mouth that “Jesus is Lord,” we will be saved. - Romans 10:9 -- The definition of "acknowledge" in Phil.2:10 is to whole-heartedly and openly declare without reservation. Therefore not induced against ones will.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Der Alte · Mar 31, 2020

Saint Steven said:
...
Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Although I have conclusively shown that "exomolegeo" does NOT mean "fully agree, agreement openly, (wholeheartedly) without reservation(no holding back)" you continue to post this patently false information.
"Exomolegeo" occurs eleven times in the NT. Here is every occurrence. It never means "fully agree" etc.
Matthew 3:6 “confessing,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess,” Philippians 2:11 “confess,” James 5:16 “Confess,” Revelation 3:5 “confess”
If you continue to post this you will be knowingly posting false information. Is that what UR is all about?

FineLinen · Mar 31, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Dear Saint: Those two little words in and at are at the foundation of the confession and worship of all beings, in all dimensions, of Abba's great consummation in the Lord Lesous.

To those who have been immersed into His glorious Presence, "IN" is clear. The confession is NOT by rote, or perfunctory genuflections, but in/en union with the Name of all names!

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." -1 Tim. 2:4-

koine thelo=

To will, have in mind, intend.

To be resolved or determined/ to purpose.

To sovereignly determine.

†θέλω thélō, thel’-o; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138; to determine (as an active option from subjective impulse.

Yup! Abba sovereignly determines that the all will ultimately worship Him in unrestrained overtures!

Saint Steven · Mar 31, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear Saint: Those two little words in and at are at the foundation of the confession and worship of all beings, in all dimensions, of Abba's great consummation in the Lord Lesous.

To those who have been immersed into His glorious Presence, "IN" is clear. The confession is NOT by rote, or perfunctory genuflections, but in/en union with the Name of all names!

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." -1 Tim. 2:4-

koine thelo=

To will, have in mind, intend.

To be resolved or determined/ to purpose.

To sovereignly determine.

†θέλω thélō, thel’-o; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138; to determine (as an active option from subjective impulse.

Yup! Abba sovereignly determines that the all will ultimately worship Him in unrestrained overtures!

That is a most interesting point. And certainly worth exploring further.
Your reply has caused me to notice (see/remember) something I haven't noticed/seen/remembered in some time. -- "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow..." Additionally, the word "that" which precedes the word "at" should also be explored, as it points backwards at something in the preceding context. (vs 9 and before)
This is getting complicated. I'll start a new post.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Saint Steven · Mar 31, 2020

@FineLinen
My understanding is that taken as a whole, this relates to a very specific point in time. (maybe)
What I mean is, the "knee bowing" takes place everywhere simultaneously. (maybe)
Both in heaven and on earth and under the earth. (in the realm of the dead)

This passage, verses 6-11 are written in poetic form though there is no reference to it as quoted poetry from another source. Maybe someone knows what that is about? (please inform us, thanks)

I anticipate an announcement when every ear everywhere can hear it. (maybe) Although I suppose it wouldn't have to be simultaneous. (the reason for all my "maybe"s) One by one for everyone who is ready to hear. (maybe)

Not sure where this is going... the image in my mind shows me passing the baton in this relay race to the next runner. - lol

Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Der Alte · Mar 31, 2020

Saint Steven said:
....
Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

You have been informed many times this is patently false. No matter how many times you post it it will always be false This shows that UR is built on a false and crumbling foundation.
Exomolegeo occurs in the NT eleven times. It never means "acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); ...("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back)"
Matthew 3:6 “confessing,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess,” Philippians 2:11 “confess,” James 5:16 “Confess,” Revelation 3:5 “confess”

FineLinen · Mar 31, 2020

Saint Steven said:
That is a most interesting point. And certainly worth exploring further.
Your reply has caused me to notice (see/remember) something I haven't noticed/seen/remembered in some time. -- "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow..." Additionally, the word "that" which precedes the word "at" should also be explored, as it points backwards at something in the preceding context. (vs 9 and before)
This is getting complicated. I'll start a new post.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Dear young Saint, please do not confuse an older man (and aspiring saint) with anything approaching complicated (lol).

The word in/en is one of the few things my poor old being grasps. I know after 62+ years of His grasp on my life what being "IN/EN" Christ Jesus means. That wee word is the foundation for what the Living One will surely accomplish when every last remnant of sin is obliterated in antiphonal worship of all beings, in all dimensions of our Abba's World.

Every being, in every dimension

Der Alte · Mar 31, 2020

FineLinen said:
...

Dear young Saint, please do not confuse an older man (and aspiring saint) with anything approaching complicated (lol).
The word in/en is one of the few things my poor old being grasps. I know after 62+ years of His grasp on my life what being "IN/EN" Christ Jesus means. That wee word is the foundation for what the Living One will surely accomplish when every last remnant of sin is obliterated in antiphonal worship of all beings, in all dimensions of our Abba's World.
Every being, in every dimension

...

Here are some of the verses in Matt where "en" is not translated "in."
Mat 5:35 at Mat 5:36 at Mat 8:6 at Mat 9:34 through Mat 11:22 at Mat 11:25 at Mat 12:1 upon Mat 12:24 by Mat 12:27 by Mat 12:28 by Mat 13:4 when Mat 14:1 at Mat 14:13 by Mat 17:21 by Mat 18:1 at Mat 21:23 by Mat 21:24 by Mat 21:27 by Mat 22:1 by Mat 22:37 with Mat 23:6 at Mat 23:16 by Mat 23:18 by

Saint Steven · Apr 2, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear young Saint, please do not confuse an older man (and aspiring saint) with anything approaching complicated (lol).

Says the guy who is attempting to calculate pi for a hobby. lol
Deciding what pizza I want is all the pi I can handle.
Fortunately a Detroit pizza is rectangular.

Saint Steven · Apr 2, 2020

A merchant who has two contradictory measures is dishonest; but what of the theologian, of whom the same is true, is he less dishonest? It is cruel to torment a cat or a dog for five minutes, but to be callous to all eternity about the endless misery of a wife or a child, is quite right and good. The transient wrongs of a chimney-sweep excite the sincerest pity; but the eternal anguish of the lost human spirit awakes not even a passing gleam of pity in the Blessed. Let a criminal be tortured for an hour by human law, and all the civilized world is roused; but let the same criminal pass to torture without end, and these endless pangs do not disturb for a moment the raptures of the inhabitants of heaven. Vivisection is odious on this earth, but is most just in hell. Is it, then, odious when temporary, and most righteous when endless? e.g., is it most righteous for Eternal Love to vivisect for ever, or at least permit to be vivisected, His own children, in the sight of the Lamb, and the Holy Angels - Rev xiv. 10

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter ten --- bold emphasis mine

FineLinen · Apr 2, 2020

Dear Saint: Your remarkable work slogging thru Christ Triumphant has truly amazed me, which after being on Christian threads is not easy (lol).

Have I missed it? What happened to Chapter 6, in particular the scope of death and its purpose?

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Saint Steven · Apr 2, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear Saint: Your remarkable work slogging thru Christ Triumphant has truly amazed me, which after being on Christian threads is not easy (lol).

Have I missed it? What happened to Chapter 6, in particular the scope of death and its purpose?

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

I think I didn't start posting until chapter nine. And it was on the Perfect Rectitude topic. Possibly earlier on another topic. Just occasional snippets at that point.

--- EDIT ---

You are correct. (as usual - so annoying - lol)
I did a search and did find some posts from chapter six. And back as far as chapter two. On various topics. I was sprinkling them around originally. Then you gave me a permanent home for them right here. Thanks.

The Saint Steve Highlights of Christ Triumphant

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You can call me Steve

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You can call me Steve

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