Corona Virus no worse than a cold

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About The Common Cold | Villanova University
The Viruses. More than 200 different viruses are known to cause the symptoms of the common cold. Some, such as the rhinoviruses, seldom produce serious illnesses. Others, such as parainfluenza and respiratory syncytial virus, produce mild infections in adults but can precipitate severe lower respiratory infections in young children.

Rhinoviruses (from the Greek rhin, meaning "nose") cause an estimated 30 to 35 percent of all adult colds, and are most active in early fall, spring and summer. More than 110 distinct rhinovirus types have been identified. These agents grow best at temperatures of 33 degrees Celsius [about 91 degrees Fahrenheit (F)], the temperature of the human nasal mucosa.

Coronaviruses are believed to cause a large percentage of all adult colds. They induce colds primarily in the winter and early spring. Of the more than 30 isolated strains, three or four infect humans. The importance of coronaviruses as causative agents is hard to assess because, unlike rhinoviruses, they are difficult to grow in the laboratory.

Approximately 10 to 15 percent of adult colds are caused by viruses also responsible for other, more severe illnesses: adenoviruses, coxsackieviruses, echoviruses, orthomyxoviruses (including influenza A and B viruses), paramyxoviruses (including several parainfluenza viruses), respiratory syncytial virus and enteroviruses.
 
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And do you remember that Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, and Donald Trump were all downplaying this?
Do you remember when President Donald Trump put in the TRAVEL BAN from CHYNA?
Don't mistake trying to calm rather than instill fear and panic.
 
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mindlight

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I heard this afternoon on the BBC that a cat in Belgium contracted the virus from his/her owners. It is bad enough that it is killing people, but cats are special. Prayers that this little kitty recovers and that no other kitties come down with the virus. Thus far this is the only known case of human to kitty transmission.

The only BBC article I could find contradicts saying there is no evidence for this


Cat rehoming pleas from owners over virus fears
 
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Your link appears to be broken, the you tube one also. Can you summarise his findings for us.

Broken? That's a bit odd. Dr Wodarg says:
  • he is a pulmonologist who ran a Health Dept flu monitoring program for many years covering 150,000 population.
  • every year we have around 100 new types of virus, because they need to change to stay ahead of our immune system.
  • Between 2005-13, Glasgow did testing for which viruses produce acute respiratory diseases, testing 8-10 viruses, results show 7-15% include coronaviruses.
  • Hence it's normal that coronaviruses comprise a large part of these diseases.
  • Wuhan is a big city, 11M ppl, with China's biggest virus lab, lots of hospitals. Always hundreds of ppl being ventilated with pneumonia.
  • They tested under 50 ppl, and found a new type of coronavirus.
  • When a virologist finds a new type, he puts it on the global database, accessible to scientists everywhere.
  • In Berlin they tried to develop a test for this variant.
  • Mr Drosten of Charite Clinic submitted a protocol to WHO, and it was approved really quickly. Normally these things require validation.
  • A virologist is unable to say if a virus is dangerous until the epidemiological data is in.
  • The usual method is to observe a population over several years, presumably 8-10% will have some virus that makes them sick.
  • If you do your tests in a hospital, you'll find a higher %, especially those who are in intensive care waiting to die.
  • In that case, you'll find those 7-15% coronaviruses in every patient, and when they die it's impossible to determine whether corona was a cause.
  • So in Italy, where and on whom were the tests done?
  • Flu stats are about 0.1%. Assumption is in Germany 20k-30k more deaths will occur p/a than without flu (called 'excess mortality')
  • Coronaviruses @ 10% should therefore contribute 2-3k p/a extra deaths. We are still very far away from that number.
  • This has become a big political issue, and swept politicians up in a woven network of information and opinions from the expert groups that created it.
  • Made it hard for the critics saying 'Stop, there's nothing going on' to be heard. It's a case of 'the king has no clothes'.

It's really a bit silly telescoping Hubei and Italy when there's 150 other countries out there nonplussed by the results. Australia announced its 16th death today. They're plainly all oldies with underlying respiratory conditions. To say it 'tipped them over the edge' is a leap that cannot be made on the available data. So I'd surmise some wit has tested all the old wheezers in the Italian ICU in order to declare 'virus dell'arte.'

Here's a video showing an irate English woman from a tower block accusing the Housing Dept workers of lying about the death of her neighbour. You decide if you think she's full of it.

I tell you, ppl watch too much TV, when instead they should be contemplating 'We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.'
 
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Is there anyone not speaking German but English perchance?

Unfortunately they're Germans, it's what they do over there. But you can turn on the subtitles and read the English transcript.
 
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mindlight

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Broken? That's a bit odd. Dr Wodarg says:
  • he is a pulmonologist who ran a Health Dept flu monitoring program for many years covering 150,000 population.
  • every year we have around 100 new types of virus, because they need to change to stay ahead of our immune system.
  • Between 2005-13, Glasgow did testing for which viruses produce acute respiratory diseases, testing 8-10 viruses, results show 7-15% include coronaviruses.
  • Hence it's normal that coronaviruses comprise a large part of these diseases.
  • Wuhan is a big city, 11M ppl, with China's biggest virus lab, lots of hospitals. Always hundreds of ppl being ventilated with pneumonia.
  • They tested under 50 ppl, and found a new type of coronavirus.
  • When a virologist finds a new type, he puts it on the global database, accessible to scientists everywhere.
  • In Berlin they tried to develop a test for this variant.
  • Mr Drosten of Charite Clinic submitted a protocol to WHO, and it was approved really quickly. Normally these things require validation.
  • A virologist is unable to say if a virus is dangerous until the epidemiological data is in.
  • The usual method is to observe a population over several years, presumably 8-10% will have some virus that makes them sick.
  • If you do your tests in a hospital, you'll find a higher %, especially those who are in intensive care waiting to die.
  • In that case, you'll find those 7-15% coronaviruses in every patient, and when they die it's impossible to determine whether corona was a cause.
  • So in Italy, where and on whom were the tests done?
  • Flu stats are about 0.1%. Assumption is in Germany 20k-30k more deaths will occur p/a than without flu (called 'excess mortality')
  • Coronaviruses @ 10% should therefore contribute 2-3k p/a extra deaths. We are still very far away from that number.
  • This has become a big political issue, and swept politicians up in a woven network of information and opinions from the expert groups that created it.
  • Made it hard for the critics saying 'Stop, there's nothing going on' to be heard. It's a case of 'the king has no clothes'.

It's really a bit silly telescoping Hubei and Italy when there's 150 other countries out there nonplussed by the results. Australia announced its 16th death today. They're plainly all oldies with underlying respiratory conditions. To say it 'tipped them over the edge' is a leap that cannot be made on the available data. So I'd surmise some wit has tested all the old wheezers in the Italian ICU in order to declare 'virus dell'arte.'

Here's a video showing an irate English woman from a tower block accusing the Housing Dept workers of lying about the death of her neighbour. You decide if you think she's full of it.

I tell you, ppl watch too much TV, when instead they should be contemplating 'We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.'

OK so in essence he is saying the virus is not new, that the corona test is not validated and the disease is not as dangerous as people are saying and that excess mortality may even be down this year. The experts disagree with him on every count:

1) NOT NEW:

"If this virus had already been present in Italy or China before that, they would have recognized the diseased patients who were negative for the known respiratory pathogens and would have looked for the new pathogen - as they did in China in December," says Stephan Becker from the Institute of Virology at the University of Marburg.

According to Jörg Janne Vehreschild, member of the board of the German Society for Infectiology, further indications that this is a new, rapidly spreading pathogen provide data on the course of the disease. The majority of statistics also show an increase in the number of deaths about two weeks after the increase in the number of cases. If the virus had been spread in the entire population from the outset, the pattern would have been different.

2) NOT VALIDATED: The corona test developed in Germany is "not even validated". It could possibly react positively to many viruses, not only to the novel Sars-CoV-2. Wodarg suggests that people are making hype about the corona virus so that researchers can make money with the tests.

Although the test also turns out positive for other viruses, this information is misleading, says Drosten in a podcast of the NDR. These viruses only occur in bats or no longer exist - for example the old Sars virus from 2002, "This test does not react against any other human corona virus or any other human cold virus.

3) NOT DANGEROUS

we realised relatively early on that the mortality rate is about ten times higher than with normal influenza - medicine professor Alexander Kekulé

The sars coronavirus-2 multiplies in the upper throat. This makes it more contagious than the sars 1 virus. Sars-CoV-2 doesn't often affect the lungs. But when it does, the disease usually progresses to a severe stage.
The main problem with the new pathogen is that because hardly any people have contracted the new virus, there is no basic immunity in the population. This leads to rapid infection if social contacts are not prevented. Approximately one in five falls ill with Covid-19 so severely that they have to be treated in a hospital.


Faktencheck zu Wodarg: Sind die Maßnahmen gegen Corona übertrieben? | MDR.DE

Corona – alles „Panikmache“?: Virale Thesen des Lungenarztes Wodarg im Faktencheck
 
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1) NOT NEW:

"If this virus had already been present in Italy or China before that, they would have recognized the diseased patients who were negative for the known respiratory pathogens and would have looked for the new pathogen - as they did in China in December," says Stephan Becker from the Institute of Virology at the University of Marburg.

Rubbish. There's 100 new virus variants every year. The area's in a constant state of flux. Dr Wodarg isn't even saying it's not potentially a new coronavirus variant, like so many others, just needs to go through the usual process, to establish if it even exists, let alone its effects. There's very little epidemiological data on the causal link between particular viruses and diseases generally.

The majority of statistics also show an increase in the number of deaths about two weeks after the increase in the number of cases.

Ah, right. That would be the case if you're looking for it in amongst acute respiratory deaths and then attributing cause ex post facto.

If the virus had been spread in the entire population from the outset, the pattern would have been different.

The 'pattern' depends on your demographic.

2) NOT VALIDATED: The corona test developed in Germany is "not even validated".

I understood him to be talking about validation of the claims as to the existence and severity of the virus, the latter of which of course takes significantly more time and data than we now have.

Wodarg suggests that people are making hype about the corona virus so that researchers can make money with the tests.

Although the test also turns out positive for other viruses, this information is misleading, says Drosten in a podcast of the NDR. These viruses only occur in bats or no longer exist - for example the old Sars virus from 2002, "This test does not react against any other human corona virus or any other human cold virus.

A claim that Drosten (making a packet from his tests) vehemently denies lol.

3) NOT DANGEROUS

we realised relatively early on that the mortality rate is about ten times higher than with normal influenza - medicine professor Alexander Kekulé

Because we looked for it in sufferers of acute respiratory illness who were over 60 and heading towards palliative care.

The sars coronavirus-2 multiplies in the upper throat. This makes it more contagious than the sars 1 virus. Sars-CoV-2 doesn't often affect the lungs. But when it does, the disease usually progresses to a severe stage.
The main problem with the new pathogen is that because hardly any people have contracted the new virus, there is no basic immunity in the population. This leads to rapid infection if social contacts are not prevented. Approximately one in five falls ill with Covid-19 so severely that they have to be treated in a hospital.

More propaganda. Again, scoreboard. We're just not seeing the predicted waves of living dead zombies lurching through the streets in their hunt for 'brains', or whatever. Then again, depends how you look at it.
 
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mindlight

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Rubbish. There's 100 new virus variants every year. The area's in a constant state of flux. Dr Wodarg isn't even saying it's not potentially a new coronavirus variant, like so many others, just needs to go through the usual process, to establish if it even exists, let alone its effects. There's very little epidemiological data on the causal link between particular viruses and diseases generally.



Ah, right. That would be the case if you're looking for it in amongst acute respiratory deaths and then attributing cause ex post facto.



The 'pattern' depends on your demographic.



I understood him to be talking about validation of the claims as to the existence and severity of the virus, the latter of which of course takes significantly more time and data than we now have.



A claim that Drosten (making a packet from his tests) vehemently denies lol.



Because we looked for it in sufferers of acute respiratory illness who were over 60 and heading towards palliative care.



More propaganda. Again, scoreboard. We're just not seeing the predicted waves of living dead zombies lurching through the streets in their hunt for 'brains', or whatever. Then again, depends how you look at it.

OK the way in which you are ignoring the experts and consensus of scientific opinion tells me that an evidential argument is not going to work with you so let us try a different approach

1) Who benefits from a lie?

Donald Trump whose personal business interests and election prospects are most likely going to be devastated by this disease has accepted the need to containment. Why would he do that if he was in on the lie. If the president of the USA can be deceived by the liar who is doing the lying. Every country in the world is suffering from the economic pain caused by this virus and it is not clear there are any beneficiaries from it.

2) Why has the whole world bought into it?

Normally opposed nations, media companies are agreeing on this. Companies who stand to lose billions have accepted the need for quarantine restrictions on their businesses some to the point of closure

Given that the evidence is there, no one benefits and the whole world has bought into this, the burden of proof rests on you and you are not providing anything like convincing scientific evidence.
 
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OK the way in which you are ignoring the experts and consensus of scientific opinion tells me that an evidential argument is not going to work with you

Um, you've failed to provide any rebuttal evidence to show (a) that the novel strain has been shown to exist by means of the usual peer-review processes and (b) assuming it does exist, that it has caused or contributed to any deaths or diseases.

So please, leave the subtle ad homs to one side.

1) Who benefits from a lie?

Donald Trump whose personal business interests and election prospects are most likely going to be devastated by this disease has accepted the need to containment. Why would he do that if he is was in on the lie. If the president of the USA can be deceived by the liar who is doing the lying. Every country in the world is suffering from the economic pain caused by this virus and it is not clear there are any beneficiaries from it.

Who benefits from totalitarianism? Absolutely nobody Winston.

2) Why has the whole world bought into it?

Normally opposed nations, media companies are agreeing on this. Companies who stand to lose billions have accepted the need for quarantine restrictions on their businesses some to the point of closure

Why did the Gulf Wars start? WMD, of course there were - or not? No.2 - 911, which had nothing to do with Iraq. Just illustrating how easy it is to 'catapult the propaganda' as W once put it.

The reality is that all governments are debtors. Look it up, creditors are 'foreign bondholders'. Not 'mum and dad investors', in case you were wondering. So debtors do what they're told. It's economic realpolitik. To suggest otherwise would display naivete of the grossest variety. So ask who has the power to demand its own appointees on certain advisory boards and international bureaux. And on whose health advice is the government required to act? It's not rocket surgery, and it's well-documented that creditors impose a host of control requirements on debtor nations.

So what happens here, governments are forced into bankruptcy, default on loans, economic slavery deepens and worsens, leading to despair and misery on the ground everywhere, and the devil and his elite minions riding high on the hog.

It's all there in the Bible my friend.

Given that the evidence is there, no one benefits and the whole world has bought into this, the burden of proof rests on you and you are not providing anything like convincing scientific evidence.

Au contraire, the hysteria is an alibi for the paucity of evidence to support the shrill claims, a small contingent of elite internationalist money-men and their jackbooted myrmidons benefit, and the whole world is experiencing surrealist confusion at the readily-observed disparity between claims and effect, effect and response.
 
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Unfortunately they're Germans, it's what they do over there. But you can turn on the subtitles and read the English transcript.

I am sorry I didn't mean to offend, I was just wondering. Watching the Dr makes me want to learn German more
 
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On February 24 on Rush Limbaugh's show said:
“Now, I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus. ... I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.”

And do you remember that Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, and Donald Trump were all downplaying this?

And still are...

Moral of the story: listen to Drs and scientist, not people trolling for votes.
 
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I am sorry I didn't mean to offend, I was just wondering. Watching the Dr makes me want to learn German more

Doesn’t matter to me what language a man speaks, long as it's the truth he's sincerely wanting to convey. Because the devil is the father of lies, and speaks his native tongue when he lies.
 
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Euodius

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And still are...

Moral of the story: listen to Drs and scientist, not people trolling for votes.

Yes, technocracy is the future. All hail the HAL the new overlord!
 
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OK the way in which you are ignoring the experts and consensus of scientific opinion tells me that an evidential argument is not going to work with you

How about this evidence:
  1. Is there an electron micrograph of the pure and fully-characterised virus?
  2. What's the name of the peer-reviewed paper in which the virus is illustrated and its full genetic information is described?
  3. What's the name of the primary specialist peer-reviewed paper that provides the proof that the virus is cause of a particular disease?
 
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How about this evidence:
  1. Is there an electron micrograph of the pure and fully-characterised virus?
  2. What's the name of the peer-reviewed paper in which the virus is illustrated and its full genetic information is described?
  3. What's the name of the primary specialist peer-reviewed paper that provides the proof that the virus is cause of a particular disease?

Those are questions not evidence. But there is already an extensive list of peer reviewed articles which address this from WHO, EU, Chinese and American sources. You are taking on every mainstream scientist in the world on this one and they have the research to shoot you down but you do not.

LitCovid - NCBI - NLM - NIH
The Epidemiological Characteristics of an Outbreak of 2019 Novel Coronavirus Diseases (COVID-19) — China, 2020
https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...na-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf
Scientific advice on coronavirus
 
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Those are questions not evidence.

Evidence is required.

Wuhan uploads a proposed new variant to the international database, just 1 out of 100 per annum, and the world goes mad. Doesn't matter how many learned papers are piled up, the necessary methods for proper identification and epidemiology haven't been followed. 3-4 months' data under conditions of hysteria is patently inadequate.

You are taking on every mainstream scientist in the world on this one

That's because I don't idolise scientism. It doesn't require any particular expertise to apply the God-given faculty of reason.

Take this clown erm leading UK expert who's now revised his predictions down from 500,000 deaths to 20,000. Imperial College scientist who predicted 500K coronavirus deaths in UK adjusts figure to 20K or fewer
'Is that your final answer sir or would you like to phone a friend?'
Maybe that's why the UK no longer classifies Covid-19 as a high risk of infectious disease. High consequence infectious diseases (HCID)

We observe a massive disparity between claims and reality as to health impact, government doublespeak and disinformation campaigns, media hysteria, martial law suspension of Constitutional guarantees and human rights. All because the virus allegedly 'pushes over the edge' sick ppl, a whole 16 old frail ppl in Australia over the last months? Get a grip, man.
 
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Evidence is required.

So where is yours, the burden of proof is on you. The rest of the world is in lockdown.

Wuhan uploads a proposed new variant to the international database, just 1 out of 100 per annum, and the world goes mad. Doesn't matter how many learned papers are piled up, the necessary methods for proper identification and epidemiology haven't been followed. 3-4 months' data under conditions of hysteria is patently inadequate.

Given the level of attention this virus is getting from just about every infectious diseases expert on the planet it is extraordinarily arrogant to suggest that they have not given it enough scrutiny. The manhours on this exceeds just about any disease from recent memory and in just 4 months. In my last post I did not just share the Chinese research, extensive as it is, there is EU, WHO and American reports also. Also the number of virus variants is irrelevant if they do not transmit or kill humans. It is SARS-COV-2 that is the virus out of the coronavirus family that is actually killing people here and now with COVID-19. There are literally billions of bat diseases but it is this one that made the jump between species.

That's because I don't idolise scientism. It doesn't require any particular expertise to apply the God-given faculty of reason.

Neither do I, I am a Creationist who thinks that science has gone way outside its scope in asserting claims about macroevolution, Big Bang and abiogenesis for instance. But this discussion is different because experiments are possible and are being carried out, so we are dealing with actually verifiable facts, because there are empirical people on the table dying of this, people of my acquaintance have this illness and are suffering with it, the whole world is on lockdown and leaders as diverse as Xi Jinping, Trump, Modi and Angela Merkel all agree it is a problem. The business elite have grudgingly accepted it is a problem despite it costing them hundreds of billions. I live in Germany and 60000 people have this from only 28 on February 28th, that rate of growth is phenomenal and the death rate here and around the world is also growing exponentially. This is not the flu season, it usually ends with Spring, so we have here an illness that is at minimum ten times as deadly as flu, apparently more contagious given the speed of its growth and which can thrive in any climate or season. It is a perfect storm of a disease and there is no cure. When you spread your lies about this you make it more likely that people will not listen to the advice being given and make it more likely that people will die from this.

Take this clown erm leading UK expert who's now revised his predictions down from 500,000 deaths to 20,000. Imperial College scientist who predicted 500K coronavirus deaths in UK adjusts figure to 20K or fewer
'Is that your final answer sir or would you like to phone a friend?'

His estimate related to the situation if nothing was done and to be honest errs on the side of caution in my view. But with the decisive preventative measures that the government is taking and with the self isolation that number can now be reduced. You were talking about using your brain?

Maybe that's why the UK no longer classifies Covid-19 as a high risk of infectious disease. High consequence infectious diseases (HCID)

The reasons they give are signs of progress in how the disease is being managed and also an increased understanding of what is and what it can do.

The British government estimate of a 1% kill ratio is a lot lower that Italys (7-10%) or even WHOs (3.4%) but is still 10 times that of Flu in America. The actual rate at the moment is 3.4% in measured cases globally. But not sure why the British are so confident they can keep the numbers down when their death rate is currently 3 times that of Germany who have 3 times the cases that they do and when half of the people going to intensive care are dying right now. Confident or not they have imposed a total lock down on the country, at a cost of billions, ordered 20000 more ventilators not to mention these new innovative breathing masks that seem to work for intermediary cases

They have determined that several features have now changed; in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall), and there is now greater clinical awareness and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continues to increase.

We observe a massive disparity between claims and reality as to health impact, government doublespeak and disinformation campaigns, media hysteria, martial law suspension of Constitutional guarantees and human rights. All because the virus allegedly 'pushes over the edge' sick ppl, a whole 16 old frail ppl in Australia over the last months? Get a grip, man.

And of course Australia is the whole world , get some perspective man. We have 600 deaths from 64000 cases here in Germany, with an exponential growth rate, and we are on the low end of this epidemic in Europe with a better medical service, more infrastructure in place and more social discipline. The italians are hitting 100000 with 10000 deaths and the Spanish are close behind and all this in the space of some 4 weeks. The British despite their confidence are now at 20000 cases and some 1500 deaths. This is not some pipe dream, it is happening now and even younger doctors are dying from it and 21 year olds
 
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So where is yours, the burden of proof is on you. The rest of the world is in lockdown.

No, the onus of proof is on those claiming a new virus exists and it is a severe health hazard. That onus has not been discharged on even the most elementary questions of virology and epidemiology. Moreover, the virus has been officially reclassified by the UK govt as 'not highly contagious', its head expert Ferguson has slashed the predicted toll by 95%, testing has become a fiasco, almost no countries are seeing any stats worse than the flu, hospitals are sitting empty, the list goes on.

I think you need to do a reality check there my friend, seems you've been 'punked' by the NWO. Why not review your paradigm and blind trust in scientism, 'get with the program' and take a look at what's really going on here?
 
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See in the dark
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This thread reminds me of a song by Ed Harcourt called Undertaker strut

Down in the valley where the river flows
There´s a man with a long black coat
Rain that is falling and clouds that are black
On the coffin that tries to float
Children they cry
When they look eye to eye
Stay in your home
When the undertaker roams
Your town
The Funeral director is a busy man
He must do the job on time
Tape measures, nails and a clawhammer beckon him
To bind the wood that binds
Children they cry
When they look eye to eye
Stay in your home
When the undertaker roams
Your town
Blind as a bat
Chain up the soul
Don´t chew the fat
Just hide in a hole
Oh, down in the valley where the river flows
There´s a man with a long black coat
Rain that is falling and the clouds that char black
On the coffin that starts to float
Children they cry
When they look eye to eye
Stay in your home
When the undertaker roams your town
Blind as a bat
Chain up the soul
Don´t chew the fat
Just hide in a hole
 
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