LDS How many negative charges has been made about JS character in LDS History? Just, curious.

mmksparbud said:

God does that. We are to present Christ to the evil, that they may see Christ in us. Jesus did not say to protect others from evil, He said to teach others everything He said.

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(Old Testament | Psalms 82:3 - 4)

3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
(New Testament | Acts 7:22 - 24)

22 And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.
23 And when he was full forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren the children of Israel.
24 And seeing one of them suffer wrong, he defended him, and avenged him that was oppressed, and smote the Egyptian:

Jamesone5 said:

And you think your Church is doing the protecting? Or your prophet is called to protect? And then, your testimony is one hedge of protecting?

That goes in line with what a missionary chanted down in Peru to me in 2008 when I finally told him why I left the Church. My missionary group, of course, went into the heart of Peru while these Mormon missionaries were told that had to stay in the relative safety of the City of Tarapoto.

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They were told correctly to stay in Tarapoto.

BigDaddy4 said:

We are talking about Joseph Smith, your religion's supposed prophet of God. Did he not have God's instruction on such matters? Or was God's instruction to shoot at the mob? Or was he listening to his false god?

I would not put myself in the position of being a false prophet, so no worries there.

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Was Moses a false prophet:

(New Testament | Acts 7:22 - 24)

22 And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.
23 And when he was full forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren the children of Israel.
24 And seeing one of them suffer wrong, he defended him, and avenged him that was oppressed, and smote the Egyptian:

He is the way said:

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:3 - 4)

3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
(New Testament | Acts 7:22 - 24)

22 And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.
23 And when he was full forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren the children of Israel.
24 And seeing one of them suffer wrong, he defended him, and avenged him that was oppressed, and smote the Egyptian:

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Yah---he spend 40 years tending sheep for that. Aren't you the guys that say God does not forgive murderers??

He is the way said:

They were told correctly to stay in Tarapoto.

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So how do you go out a Share the Gospel with the whole earth, if you only do it in cities?

Matthew 28:19
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Does this say anywhere to limit it to only the cities?

Tell you what--our group was in constant danger----definitely on the trip to the little village where we went. And then back to Tarapoto after we had preached and done some work on their church. But then, the Lord protected us.

mmksparbud said:

Yah---he spend 40 years tending sheep for that. Aren't you the guys that say God does not forgive murderers??

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There are many instances in Scripture where killing is authorized and even commanded in some cases. Shedding innocent blood is certainly condemned, however Moses did not shed innocent blood.

He is the way said:

There are many instances in Scripture where killing is authorized and even commanded in some cases. Shedding innocent blood is certainly condemned, however Moses did not shed innocent blood.

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We've had this argument before----neither the slave nor Moses were in danger of being killed.
The Egyptian was only smiting the Hebrew. Nothing states that the Egyptian was going to kill the Hebrew.
Moses obviously knew he was doing wrong---he looked around to see if anyone was watching before jumping in. And then he hid the body.

Exo 2:11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.
Exo 2:12 And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

Biblical definition of Smite
Bible Usage: SMITE, verb transitive preterit tense smote; participle passive smitten, smil. [This verb is the Latin mitto.] 1. To strike; to throw, drive or force against, as the fist or hand, a stone or a weapon; to reach with a blow or a weapon; as, to smite one with the fist; to smite with a rod or with a stone.

mmksparbud said:

We've had this argument before----neither the slave nor Moses were in danger of being killed.
The Egyptian was only smiting the Hebrew. Nothing states that the Egyptian was going to kill the Hebrew.
Moses obviously knew he was doing wrong---he looked around to see if anyone was watching before jumping in. And then he hid the body.

Exo 2:11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.
Exo 2:12 And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

Biblical definition of Smite
Bible Usage: SMITE, verb transitive preterit tense smote; participle passive smitten, smil. [This verb is the Latin mitto.] 1. To strike; to throw, drive or force against, as the fist or hand, a stone or a weapon; to reach with a blow or a weapon; as, to smite one with the fist; to smite with a rod or with a stone.

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Would the Egyptian in the process of killing the Hebrew? Perhaps, we don't know and can't read his mind. People certainly can be killed by hitting them with a rod or a stone. Did God condemn Moses? Did Moses give us the ten commandments from God?

He is the way said:

Would the Egyptian in the process of killing the Hebrew? Perhaps, we don't know and can't read his mind. People certainly can be killed by hitting them with a rod or a stone. Did God condemn Moses? Did Moses give us the ten commandments from God?

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God forgives all sins. Moses was forgiven. Moses still spend 40 herding sheep. Worked out his anger issues stomping around the dessert.

mmksparbud said:

God forgives all sins. Moses was forgiven. Moses still spend 40 herding sheep. Worked out his anger issues stomping around the dessert.

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Yes God does forgive sin to those who repent with Godly sorrow.

He is the way said:

Yes God does forgive sin to those who repent with Godly sorrow.

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Well, OK. but then you haver to agree that sprinkling, or pouring water over someone is a legit baptism, for the word means to immerse, and neither the flood nor the second coming fire immersed the planet in water or in the fire---it remained on the top of the planet and did not get dunked into the water or the fire.

mmksparbud said:

Well, OK. but then you haver to agree that sprinkling, or pouring water over someone is a legit baptism, for the word means to immerse, and neither the flood nor the second coming fire immersed the planet in water or in the fire---it remained on the top of the planet and did not get dunked into the water or the fire.

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I suspect we will have to speak to God about that, but as I understand it the entire world was under water. The fire has not happened yet.

He is the way said:

I suspect we will have to speak to God about that, but as I understand it the entire world was under water. The fire has not happened yet.

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The earth was covered with water---not dunked into water. It will be the same for the fire--the earth will be covered with fire---not dunked into the fire. So if your calling that baptism, then being sprinkled with water over the top of your body would have to be acceptable---which, for us, is not acceptable---we go for dunking---like a donut!

He is the way said:

Was Moses a false prophet:

(New Testament | Acts 7:22 - 24)

22 And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.
23 And when he was full forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren the children of Israel.
24 And seeing one of them suffer wrong, he defended him, and avenged him that was oppressed, and smote the Egyptian:

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I see that you are still in your word search phase and still do not fully understand what you post. Had Moses been commissioned by God yet when he killed the Egyptian? In my Bible, he kills the Egyptian in Exodus Chapter 2 and then gets his burning bush commission from God in Chapter 3. 3 comes after 2. Perhaps not in your JST bible?

Therefore, if Moses was not a prophet when he killed the Egyptian, how can he be a false prophet, as you are trying to suggest?

mmksparbud said:

The earth was covered with water---not dunked into water. It will be the same for the fire--the earth will be covered with fire---not dunked into the fire. So if your calling that baptism, then being sprinkled with water over the top of your body would have to be acceptable---which, for us, is not acceptable---we go for dunking---like a donut!

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It does not need to be dunked, covered is fine.

BigDaddy4 said:

I see that you are still in your word search phase and still do not fully understand what you post. Had Moses been commissioned by God yet when he killed the Egyptian? In my Bible, he kills the Egyptian in Exodus Chapter 2 and then gets his burning bush commission from God in Chapter 3. 3 comes after 2. Perhaps not in your JST bible?

Therefore, if Moses was not a prophet when he killed the Egyptian, how can he be a false prophet, as you are trying to suggest?

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I am not suggesting that Moses was a false prophet. It was meant to be a question to see if you thought he was a false prophet even though he killed someone. Moses was indeed a prophet of God even though he had killed someone. I believe he killed an evil person to protect another person, or perhaps prevent him from being murdered. He did not kill an innocent person.

He is the way said:

It does not need to be dunked, covered is fine.

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So a covering of water for baptism is OK---sprinkling will do that. And here I thought you guys were dunkers.

He is the way said:

Your remarks are of the same kind without even thinking that you are telling God what He should have done to save Joseph Smith when that was not God's plan. It was not a comparison of Joseph Smith and Jesus Christ, it was about mocking God the Father.

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No ---I am mocking your false god, who raised up a false prophet in JS.

A god that exist only in JS's imagination..

mmksparbud said:

So a covering of water for baptism is OK---sprinkling will do that. And here I thought you guys were dunkers.

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Sprinkling does not effectively cover a person with water.

Jamesone5 said:

No ---I am mocking your false god, who raised up a false prophet in JS.

A god that exist only in JS's imagination..

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God the Father is indeed real and should NOT be mocked.