Man dies after ingesting chloroquine

Aryeh Jay · Mar 26, 2020

jayem said:
Good stuff. Not enough quinine to be pharmacologically active. But if you drink enough gin and tonics, you won't care.

Off-topic: A great summer drink, BTW, is 1 part gin, 3 parts tonic water, and 1 part freshly squeezed grapefruit juice. Served over plenty of cracked ice. Very refreshing.

The levels have been dropping ever since the British left India. I wonder if there is a connection.

Aryeh Jay · Mar 26, 2020

Cimorene said:
I've never tried gin or tonic water but I LOVE grapefruit juice so this sounds bomb. We make grapefruit juice soda w a Soda Stream!!!! It's so good.

Tonic water with quinine is somewhat bitter. Grapefruits are 3 for $2 at my local grocery store. Do you use fresh or buy squeezed juice?

Albion · Mar 26, 2020

rjs330 said:
Where would this person get the idea that eating fish bacteria killer is the same thing as getting a prescription for medication from your doctor?

According to Vice US which claims to have broken the story...

"But the now-sickened woman, who has not been named, told NBC News that the koi pond-treatment product was already on her shelf when she heard chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine mentioned by the president. Terrified of getting sickened by the coronavirus, she apparently acted without consulting a doctor, confused the product with the legitimate drug approved for treatment of malaria and lupus, and mixed it with another liquid before drinking it. "

It's hard to imagine anyone doing that, and even harder to understand both wife and husband agreeing on it, especially when neither of them had contracted the disease.

jayem · Mar 26, 2020

Aryeh Jay said:
The levels have been dropping ever since the British left India. I wonder if there is a connection.

I think it’s probably a reflection of the preference for sweeter drinks. Tonic water with a higher quinine content would be too bitter for modern tastes.

stevil · Mar 26, 2020

Salvadore said:
A humidifier would be a reasonable

You want to make your air wetter?

Salvadore said:
Drinking water is helpful.

In general humans need water to live.
But it doesn't help prevent catching a virus.

Salvadore said:
Cleaning surfaces, washing hands help.

Finally, yes these two things help.

Salvadore said:
Prayer helps

People that pray are less likely to catch viruses? Really???

Salvadore · Mar 26, 2020

stevil said:
You want to make your air wetter?

In general humans need water to live.
But it doesn't help prevent catching a virus.

Finally, yes these two things help.

People that pray are less likely to catch viruses? Really???

Did I say all these would prevent getting the virus? Reportedly your secretions become thick with the virus. Increased humidity can help thin secretions. Humidity is used in hospitals for this reason. Staying hydrated helps thin secretions also. Does prayer protect you from the virus? I have no idea. Is it ok to pray in a time of distress? Yes. My point was to use common sense. Don't ingest chemicals that are not recommended ( because you might die). On the other hand, do what makes sense to you.
I don't think wet air and water keep the virus away from people who pray. If I did I would have said so though. And I did not.

Tanj · Mar 27, 2020

Albion said:
According to Vice US which claims to have broken the story...

"But the now-sickened woman, who has not been named, told NBC News that the koi pond-treatment product was already on her shelf when she heard chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine mentioned by the president. Terrified of getting sickened by the coronavirus, she apparently acted without consulting a doctor, confused the product with the legitimate drug approved for treatment of malaria and lupus, and mixed it with another liquid before drinking it. "

It's hard to imagine anyone doing that, and even harder to understand both wife and husband agreeing on it, especially when neither of them had contracted the disease.

Really? Fascinating, because I have no trouble at all imagining people doing that. In point of fact as an erstwhile fish owner, I said to my wife that people would start eating fish tank cleaner when this first broke.

stevil · Mar 27, 2020

Salvadore said:
Did I say all these would prevent getting the virus? Reportedly your secretions become thick with the virus. Increased humidity can help thin secretions. Humidity is used in hospitals for this reason. Staying hydrated helps thin secretions also.

This is new to me, thanks, i'll look this up.

Salvadore said:
Does prayer protect you from the virus? I have no idea. Is it ok to pray in a time of distress? Yes.

Sure, you can pray, I personally have no issues with that. I don't think it helps at all though. But it doesn't hurt either (if you have spare time on your hands)

Salvadore said:
Don't ingest chemicals that are not recommended ( because you might die).

Depends who they are recommended by.
If Trump recommends, well, best to wait and see if someone who knows what they are talking about recommends them.

Salvadore · Mar 27, 2020

Again, use common sense : )

Aryeh Jay · Mar 27, 2020

Salvadore said:
Again, use common sense : )

Kind of like if it in the food or medical aisle it is probably safe to take by mouth but if it is in the pet and household cleaner aisle you should probably not.

ThatRobGuy · Mar 27, 2020

FreeinChrist said:
There is a difference between the medication that is prescribed, and a compound sold without prescription that is formulated to use in a fish tank.

Correct, this seems to be another talking point people are using to bash Trump (he's got enough legitimate flaws that are bash-worthy without people having to deliberately take things out of context or compare apples & oranges to make it sound as if he was honestly suggesting that people consume fish tank cleaner)

There are literally dozens (if not hundreds) of compounds that can work well in the medical form in controlled preparations and dosages, but can have hazardous effects to humans in other forms.

If a politician came out on TV (in the midst of a dental health crisis) and said "There's some solid research that shows that fluoride can have a positive effect on this issue", and some idiot goes home and mixes up some pesticides and soda and drinks it and gets ill, that's not the politician's fault.

I don't like the guy at all, but the "let's just find any reason to nitpick everything he does" we're seeing on a daily basis with the Covid-19 situation may just make me vote for him in 2020 lol.

I felt much the same way about conservatives doing the same thing to Obama when he was in office.

At this point, we're only a few steps away from "He smiled for a picture while he was holding a glass of orange juice in the morning... What a Jerk! doesn't he know that's a microaggression against people who can't afford OJ, and impoverished people who pick oranges????"

stevil · Mar 27, 2020

ThatRobGuy said:
Correct, this seems to be another talking point people are using to bash Trump (he's got enough legitimate flaws that are bash-worthy without people having to deliberately take things out of context or compare apples & oranges to make it sound as if he was honestly suggesting that people consume fish tank cleaner)

Two stupid things happened.

1. A president on TV said that chloroquine was a game changer against a deadly very contagious virus that there is widespread panic about. (Without evidence, without support of scientists or those with medical qualifications)
2. A (presumably listener and truster of Trump) couldn't get prescribed chloroquine so tried their fish tank cleaner.

It makes sense for the general public to criticise both of these items
Trump shouldn't be saying this stuff.
People shouldn't be drinking fish tank cleaner.

ThatRobGuy · Mar 28, 2020

stevil said:
Two stupid things happened.

1. A president on TV said that chloroquine was a game changer against a deadly very contagious virus that there is widespread panic about. (Without evidence, without support of scientists or those with medical qualifications)
2. A (presumably listener and truster of Trump) couldn't get prescribed chloroquine so tried their fish tank cleaner.

It makes sense for the general public to criticise both of these items
Trump shouldn't be saying this stuff.
People shouldn't be drinking fish tank cleaner.

#1 from your list isn't true, there is evidence to suggest that it may be effective.

A systematic review on the efficacy and safety of chloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19. - PubMed - NCBI

https://www.ashp.org/-/media/assets...avirus/docs/ASHP-COVID-19-Evidence-Table.ashx

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

It may be limited evidence, but suggesting that the chloroquine comments were just a "stab in the dark" isn't accurate either.

In this particular statements he made, I don't see where he really said anything out of line here

stevil · Mar 28, 2020

ThatRobGuy said:
#1 from your list isn't true, there is evidence to suggest that it may be effective.

It may be limited evidence, but suggesting that the chloroquine comments were just a "stab in the dark" isn't accurate either.

In this particular statements he made, I don't see where he really said anything out of line here

He really speaks from a point of total ignorance and very limited comprehension.
He is by far the dumbest of all the world leaders today.

He said "some people would add to it Hydroxy chloroquine"
Who are these "some people"? Sean Hannity? Alex Rodriquez? Trump's current mistress, his wife, his kids, the doctor that stated Trump is the healthiest president ever to go into office? or perhaps someone qualified and trusted?
It really is important who the sources are and how sure they are of this drug.

And when he says "It could be a game changer, and maybe not". The idiot contradicts himself in the one slow sentence. He really is painful to listen to. He says stuff he knows nothing about, repeats himself, contradicts himself, embellishes. He takes 5 times as long as what any other succinct leader would do.

On the up side, a real doctor came on and stated that Trump is full of it and is using anecdotal evidence. But unfortunately Trump's fan base don't listen to and don't understand the doctor. Instead they listen to Trump as he speaks their language.

Trump really shouldn't have spoken about chloroquine, an unproven drug for this purpose. It is great that the doctor down played and contradicted what Trump said.

Trump again tried to state that it was effective for SARs and the doctor then said, "No, it was not proven to be effective"

This is one of the worst public broadcasts I have ever seen on the Covid-19 issue.
These guys need to sort their stuff out before getting infront of the camera and giving highly conflicting statements. My vote, is to bring the doctor back and get rid of that guy in the suit and the red tie.

ThatRobGuy · Mar 29, 2020

stevil said:
he really speaks from a point of total ignorance and very limited comprehension.
He is by far the dumbest of all the world leaders today.

He said "some people would add to it Hydroxy chloroquine"
Who are these "some people"? Sean Hannity? Alex Rodriquez? Trump's current mistress, his wife, his kids, the doctor that stated Trump is the healthiest president ever to go into office? or perhaps someone qualified and trusted?

Most leaders are, because they're not doctors, nor do they have a background in biochemistry or immunology.

The media seems to glorify leaders who make uninformed assertions when it favors one particular political narrative, or is coming from a person who's a member of the "favorable political party"

Are we willing to hold some of Cuomo's statements under the same magnifying glass?
Coronavirus News: Governor Cuomo says coronavirus 'not our first rodeo,' expects more cases in NYC

Seems like Cuomo was downplaying it quite a bit early on (the same thing other people get demonized for)

stevil · Mar 29, 2020

ThatRobGuy said:
Most leaders are, because they're not doctors, nor do they have a background in biochemistry or immunology.

Yes but,

One would assume that a country leader has access to experts, listens to experts, and takes their advice.
Trump is different to other world leaders because it seems that he believes he is smarter than the experts, it seems as if he thinks knowledge is simply bestowed upon him (by the universe) and that he doesn't need to study or read or even listen to experts. Trump nullifies the highly touted USA scientific and medical experts by thinking he knows better. Trump makes USA dumber.

ThatRobGuy said:
The media seems to glorify leaders who make uninformed assertions when it favors one particular political narrative, or is coming from a person who's a member of the "favorable political party"

I don't think that is true.
Maybe true in political affiliated media channels like Brightbart and FoxNews, but otherwise, the media are just the media. They will always look to be critical of those in power (regardless of what party they come from). It seems Trump gets lots and lots of criticism, but mostly it is deserved. He is a very unique president, constantly lies, constantly embellishes, constantly politicises everything. Much more so than any other president you have ever had.

ThatRobGuy said:
Are we willing to hold some of Cuomo's statements under the same magnifying glass?
Coronavirus News: Governor Cuomo says coronavirus 'not our first rodeo,' expects more cases in NYC

Seems like Cuomo was downplaying it quite a bit early on (the same thing other people get demonized for)

Is Cuomo a president or prime minister?

ThatRobGuy · Mar 30, 2020

stevil said:
I don't think that is true.
Maybe true in political affiliated media channels like Brightbart and FoxNews, but otherwise, the media are just the media. They will always look to be critical of those in power (regardless of what party they come from). It seems Trump gets lots and lots of criticism, but mostly it is deserved. He is a very unique president, constantly lies, constantly embellishes, constantly politicises everything. Much more so than any other president you have ever had.

That's some of the thinking that I've described before as "the 30 year lens"...people tend to base their opinions on "Best" and "Worst" presidents based on the prior 3 decades.

I can name 5 presidents that were far worse with trying to abuse the system, lying, racism, etc... any negative quality you want to toss out that Trump has, I can name a handful of presidents that are worse than any president that's existed in my 36 year lifetime. Most of our early presidents were terrible people by today's moral standards.

You do realize that previous presidents owned slaves, put people in internment camps, went on Native-slaughtering campaigns, backstabbed (lied) to Native Americans about treaties, attempting to stack the supreme court, womanized with the best of them (or worst I should say) etc...

If people want to have an honest conversation about how bad Trump is, I'm game...I don't like the guy...I don't like anyone who panders to the religious right, I don't like anyone who promotes protectionist trade policies, and I won't vote or anyone who opposes a woman's right to choose...nor will I vote for someone who's in cahoots with people who oppose marijuana legalization...nor will I vote for someone who aligns themselves with people who oppose gay rights.

However, if someone starts claiming that "he's uniquely the worst president of all time", that's where take umbrage at their very limited view of history.

stevil said:
Is Cuomo a president or prime minister?

Given that states have been setting their own policies, I'd say that a governor is a prominent enough position to evaluate? Yes?

If not, then why do the same outlets that run headlines like "Here's a list of the ways Trump has mismanaged Covid-19" even bother running articles praising various Democratic governors for how they're handling it?, and bashing republican governors? If Governors aren't important enough to bother with, they shouldn't be taking up precious HTML real estate on a prominent news website, correct?...if what you're suggesting is true and President or PM are the only positions that matter.

...why have they also run articles talking about how abysmal of a job the Lt. Governor of Texas has been doing? (which I would agree with BTW, he's awful)

Not to mention, they praise democratic governors who handle the situation well, but when a governor is a republican (but is handling the situation well...like mine, Mike DeWine), they almost say nothing about them.

I'd go as far as asserting that if Mike DeWine was a democrat, CNN would be praising him daily as "the example of what Trump "should" be.

stevil · Mar 30, 2020

ThatRobGuy said:
That's some of the thinking that I've described before as "the 30 year lens"...people tend to base their opinions on "Best" and "Worst" presidents based on the prior 3 decades.

I can name 5 presidents that were far worse with trying to abuse the system, lying, racism, etc... any negative quality you want to toss out that Trump has, I can name a handful of presidents that are worse than any president that's existed in my 36 year lifetime. Most of our early presidents were terrible people by today's moral standards.

That would be interesting to rank each USA president on each "bad quality", but not really the topic of this thread and doesn't actually address anything that I have said.

ThatRobGuy said:
You do realize that previous presidents owned slaves, put people in internment camps, went on Native-slaughtering campaigns, backstabbed (lied) to Native Americans about treaties, attempting to stack the supreme court, womanized with the best of them (or worst I should say) etc...

Yes, USA has quite the history.

ThatRobGuy said:
If people want to have an honest conversation about how bad Trump is, I'm game...I don't like the guy...I don't like anyone who panders to the religious right, I don't like anyone who promotes protectionist trade policies, and I won't vote or anyone who opposes a woman's right to choose...nor will I vote for someone who's in cahoots with people who oppose marijuana legalization...nor will I vote for someone who aligns themselves with people who oppose gay rights.

I'm right with you on everything there except for the marijuana part. I personally don't care for it and don't know enough about it to have an opinion on whether it should be legal or not.

ThatRobGuy said:
However, if someone starts claiming that "he's uniquely the worst president of all time", that's where take umbrage at their very limited view of history.

That's not what I said at all.

ThatRobGuy said:
Given that states have been setting their own policies, I'd say that a governor is a prominent enough position to evaluate? Yes?

Being a non USA person, living in a place far far away from you. I don't really pay that much attention to your governers etc.

ThatRobGuy said:
If not, then why do the same outlets that run headlines like "Here's a list of the ways Trump has mismanaged Covid-19" even bother running articles praising various Democratic governors for how they're handling it?

I can't speak for the media outlets.

ThatRobGuy said:
Not to mention, they praise democratic governors who handle the situation well, but when a governor is a republican (but is handling the situation well...like mine, Mike DeWine), they almost say nothing about them.

Doing a quick search, here is a CNN article that gives praise to a Republican governor.

Larry Hogan, Maryland's Republican governor, defies Trump with aggressive coronavirus response - CNNPolitics
Hogan's performance in Maryland has won him the praise of the Democrat he defeated in 2018 on his way to a second term in office.
"Gov. Hogan has shown great leadership in pulling our state together during this crisis, particularly given the absolute lack of direction from the White House," Ben Jealous, the former NAACP president and Maryland's Democratic gubernatorial nominee in 2018, told CNN. "We shouldn't be Democrats and Republicans during this crisis. We have to be one community. Gov. Hogan is setting the right tone to help save lives and for that, he deserves a great deal of credit."

ThatRobGuy · Mar 30, 2020

stevil said:
Being a non USA person, living in a place far far away from you. I don't really pay that much attention to your governers etc.

That could be a perceptual thing in that case...here in the US, the states (administrative districts) have more authority for certain matters than in other places.

There were several states that didn't have any social distancing measures or "shelter in place" orders early on...it was very much a state-by-state thing based on the governors of the various states. From what I'm reading, as of 15 hours ago, Arizona still doesn't have an order in place for that.

stevil said:
Doing a quick search, here is a CNN article that gives praise to a Republican governor.

Larry Hogan, Maryland's Republican governor, defies Trump with aggressive coronavirus response - CNNPolitics
Hogan's performance in Maryland has won him the praise of the Democrat he defeated in 2018 on his way to a second term in office.
"Gov. Hogan has shown great leadership in pulling our state together during this crisis, particularly given the absolute lack of direction from the White House," Ben Jealous, the former NAACP president and Maryland's Democratic gubernatorial nominee in 2018, told CNN. "We shouldn't be Democrats and Republicans during this crisis. We have to be one community. Gov. Hogan is setting the right tone to help save lives and for that, he deserves a great deal of credit."

Is the praise because he did what was right? Or because he verbally opposed Trump in a CNN interview? Mike DeWine's response has been much more proactive than Maryland's (in my opinion), but DeWine has mostly left partisanship out of it, and hasn't gone as far as calling out the president (by name) as directly as Hogan has.

It seems like the left-leaning media uses right-leaning governors as a tool to say "see, even these republican governors are doing XYZ" rather than based on the actual merit of their approaches.

It still seems to be more of a disingenuous tactic of "how can we use this to bash Trump" than it is any sort of genuine recognition of their efforts.

If DeWine came out tomorrow and said "Trump is asinine in the way he's handling this, we need to do XYZ", I almost guarantee it'd be on CNN's home page 10 minutes after he said it.

While CNN may be more accurate when it comes to certain factual aspects of the news, they're no better than FoxNews news when it comes to media bias.

cow451 · Mar 30, 2020

ThatRobGuy said:
That's some of the thinking that I've described before as "the 30 year lens"...people tend to base their opinions on "Best" and "Worst" presidents based on the prior 3 decades.

I can name 5 presidents that were far worse with trying to abuse the system, lying, racism, etc... any negative quality you want to toss out that Trump has, I can name a handful of presidents that are worse than any president that's existed in my 36 year lifetime. Most of our early presidents were terrible people by today's moral standards.

You do realize that previous presidents owned slaves, put people in internment camps, went on Native-slaughtering campaigns, backstabbed (lied) to Native Americans about treaties, attempting to stack the supreme court, womanized with the best of them (or worst I should say) etc...

If people want to have an honest conversation about how bad Trump is, I'm game...I don't like the guy...I don't like anyone who panders to the religious right, I don't like anyone who promotes protectionist trade policies, and I won't vote or anyone who opposes a woman's right to choose...nor will I vote for someone who's in cahoots with people who oppose marijuana legalization...nor will I vote for someone who aligns themselves with people who oppose gay rights.

However, if someone starts claiming that "he's uniquely the worst president of all time", that's where take umbrage at their very limited view of history.

Given that states have been setting their own policies, I'd say that a governor is a prominent enough position to evaluate? Yes?

If not, then why do the same outlets that run headlines like "Here's a list of the ways Trump has mismanaged Covid-19" even bother running articles praising various Democratic governors for how they're handling it?, and bashing republican governors? If Governors aren't important enough to bother with, they shouldn't be taking up precious HTML real estate on a prominent news website, correct?...if what you're suggesting is true and President or PM are the only positions that matter.

...why have they also run articles talking about how abysmal of a job the Lt. Governor of Texas has been doing? (which I would agree with BTW, he's awful)

Not to mention, they praise democratic governors who handle the situation well, but when a governor is a republican (but is handling the situation well...like mine, Mike DeWine), they almost say nothing about them.

I'd go as far as asserting that if Mike DeWine was a democrat, CNN would be praising him daily as "the example of what Trump "should" be.

There are those that could argue Mr. Trump would do worse than those bad Presidents you reference. However, slavery and genocide are reviled across the political spectrum. That means the comparison with previous “bad” Presidents is unfair.

This President is really, really unique... the most unique in history. Many people are saying he is the unique-est of all time.

Man dies after ingesting chloroquine

Gone and hopefully forgotten.

Gone and hopefully forgotten.

Facilitator

Naturalist

Godless and without morals

Active Member

Redefined comfortable middle class

Godless and without morals

Active Member

Gone and hopefully forgotten.

Part of the IT crowd

Godless and without morals

Part of the IT crowd

Godless and without morals

Part of the IT crowd

Godless and without morals

Part of the IT crowd

Godless and without morals

Part of the IT crowd

Standing with Ukraine.

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