SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

LoveGodsWord · Mar 28, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
We are under the purview of every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. It really is that simple if we believe that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
John 7:17

Absolutely Jesse, well said. Many seem to be of the view that the new testament scriptures delete the old testament scriptures when everything we have in the new testament comes from the old testament. Everyone of God's LAWS (10 commandments) including God's 4th commandment Sabbath is repeated in the new testament. God bless and nice to meet you. (Sorry I cannot rate anyones posts here).

God bless

Jesse Johnson · Mar 28, 2020

JLB777 said:
Where is the word that proceeds out of His mouth to join an organization called Seventh Day Adventist, and abide by their rules?

Who said there was?

pasifika · Mar 28, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
Please show me where, in Hebrews 4, or Genesis 2, Or Exodus 20, or anywhere else in the Bible that mentions the Sabbath, it refers to the Millenium. Not that I am at odds with your theory entirely, but it is of no consequence concerning the command to remember and keep.

There was no Christian "Church," per se, of any kind before the "law of Moses." What purpose does a rhetorical question such as this serve?

A repetition of terms such as "law of Moses" and words such as "it," "law," 'against," "until," etc., suggests an exclusive/novel/out-of-balance point of view to me.

*Luk 2:22* And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

*Luk 24:44* And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

*Joh 1:45* Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

*Joh 7:19* Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

*Joh 7:23* If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Do you honestly believe that all of these references to the law of Moses point to the same exact thing?

Frankly, I can't see the point of your objections/arguments. It seems you are saying that we must either keep the Sabbath as simply as it is described in the fourth commandment, or else we must observe it according to every jot and tittle of the theocratic civil ordinances of ancient Israel, as if there were nothing else the Bible has to say on the subject. Your definition of the "law of Moses" is ambiguous, at best. An emphasis on the sabbath as a prophecy of the Millenium is, in light of the entire testimony of Scripture, a case of "majoring in minors."

Please make your objections clear instead of asking pointed, loaded questions. Do you believe the Sabbath was nailed to the cross or not? If not, how do you believe the Sabbath should be kept. You've made it clear that you believe in the Millenial-Sabbath connection. If you have something to share from Scripture in support of its importance, please do so candidly.

Hello Jesse, Hebrews 4:5.."They shall never enter His rest"...so what rest did He refers to?

Jesse Johnson · Mar 29, 2020

pasifika said:
Hello Jesse, Hebrews 4:5.."They shall never enter His rest"...so what rest did He refers to?

Some teach that Hebrews 4 defines the seventh-day Sabbath commandment in the Decalogue as a shadow-type law pointing forward to a spiritual rest in Christ. They view the Sabbath in the same way the Old Testament sacrifices pointed forward to Christ’s atoning death on the cross. They teach that once we have found “spiritual rest” in Christ, we no longer need to observe the Sabbath day, and that keeping the seventh day is a form of bondage and an act of personal works.

It is true that the primary message of Hebrews 4 is to emphasize the believer’s rest of grace. The main point in Hebrews 3:7–4:11 is for Jewish Christians to persevere in faith and not fall into unbelief and disobedience as did their forefathers. But the reference to the Sabbath in Hebrews 4 is not a shadow of that rest in Christ, but an illustration of that rest.

A shadow or type suggests a fulfillment by Jesus that passes away. For example, when Christ died as the sacrificial Lamb and the temple curtain was torn from top to bottom, it signaled the end of the sacrificial system. We no longer sacrifice lambs because Jesus fulfilled the shadow that pointed forward to the cross.

The Ten Commandments are not part of the types or ceremonies established by God to point the Israelites toward the coming sacrifice of Jesus. The moral law of God is eternal and does not pass away (Psalm 119:160). Presenting the Sabbath as only Jewish is typically an attempt to pluck the fourth commandment out of the law of God and toss it aside. It is presented as a burden to be taken away by Jesus. But God never created the Sabbath to be a burden. To call the Sabbath a burden is a distortion.

The Sabbath is not only for the Jews, but it was a blessing instituted at Creation for all humanity before sin even entered our planet. Even the Old Testament description of true Sabbath-keeping is a picture of freedom, rest, and delight. Isaiah 58:13, 14, tells us that there is a very special blessing involved in keeping the Sabbath:

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable, and shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words, then you shall delight yourself in the Lord; and I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.”

When a believer keeps the Sabbath, he acknowledges the saving work of Christ and ceases from his own works. “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you’ ” (Exodus 31:13). The Sabbath is a sign (not of the miracle-type sign that Christ warns of seeking) that that God saves us. We cannot save ourselves.

The true sign of salvation by faith is found in the Sabbath. The sign of salvation by works will be found in a substitute Sabbath put in place by humans. When people determine to set aside God’s law and keep a day of their own choosing, they are not truly resting in grace, but attempting to be saved by their own works. There is no better way to spot such a deceitful religion than by a spurious or false Sabbath. It really comes down to choosing my way or God’s way.

Hebrews 4 shows that the Israelites, during the time of the exodus, could have found the spiritual rest of grace if they had exercised faith in God and sought a change of heart. The sacrificial system pointed them to the gospel. So also the people during the time of Joshua might have experienced that rest in grace, as also the Israelites in the time of David.

The promise of experiencing God’s grace is still available to us, but it will come only by exercising faith in Jesus. Such faith will show itself in obedience to all of God’s law (John 14:15), not in following the traditions of humans who tell us to set aside the fourth commandment.

JLB777 · Mar 29, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
Please show me where, in Hebrews 4, or Genesis 2, Or Exodus 20, or anywhere else in the Bible that mentions the Sabbath, it refers to the Millenium. Not that I am at odds with your theory entirely, but it is of no consequence concerning the command to remember and keep.

Yes the command to keep the Sabbath was a requirement under the law of Moses, however the way we keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant has changed.

It still a day designed for man to rest, and points to the rest to come.

Since we have been given specific instructions about the Sabbath by the writings of the New Testament, we have liberty.

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5

again

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:14-17

So the Sabbath keeping under the law of Moses is no longer a commandment as it was, because the law of Moses has been abolished, nailed to the cross and taken out of the way.

We must look to the writings of the Apostles and Jesus in the New Testament to find answers about the Sabbath keeping today.

I have posted 2.

Could you share some scriptures from the New Testament, whereby we may find instructions about how the Church is to go about observing the Sabbath today?

JLB

JLB777 · Mar 29, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
We are under the purview of every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. It really is that simple if we believe that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
John 7:17

Ok bro.

Make sure you are careful to do all of His word.

Starting with this —

Now the Lord called to Moses, and spoke to him from the tabernacle of meeting, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: When any one of you brings an offering to the Lord, you shall bring your offering of the livestock—of the herd and of the flock.
‘If his offering is a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish; he shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord. Then he shall put his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. He shall kill the bull before the Lord; and the priests, Aaron’s sons, shall bring the blood and sprinkle the blood all around on the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of meeting. And he shall skin the burnt offering and cut it into its pieces. The sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire on the altar, and lay the wood in order on the fire. Then the priests, Aaron’s sons, shall lay the parts, the head, and the fat in order on the wood that is on the fire upon the altar; but he shall wash its entrails and its legs with water. And the priest shall burn all on the altar as a burnt sacrifice an offering made by fire, a sweet aroma to the Lord.
Leviticus 1:1-9

JLB

LoveGodsWord · Mar 29, 2020

JLB777 said:
Yes the command to keep the Sabbath was a requirement under the law of Moses, however the way we keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant has changed.

It still a day designed for man to rest, and points to the rest to come.

Since we have been given specific instructions about the Sabbath by the writings of the New Testament, we have liberty.

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5

Noy really JBL. Your trying to read into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say or teach by trying to read the Sabbath into Romans 14 when it says no such thing. Can you show me in ROMANS 14 where it is talking about God's 4th commandment Sabbath?

ROMANS 14 says nothing about Gods' 4th commandment. ROMANS 14 is in relation eating and not eating (fasting) on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard.

There is no reference to Gods' 4th commandment in all of ROMANS 14. In fact you will not find a single scripture in all of God's Word that says Gods' 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

This is simply a teaching and tradition of men handed down to Christianity by the Roman Catholic Church. JESUS warns us about this in MATTHEW 15:2-9. According to the scriptures God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we break any one of them according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God "under the law" *ROMANS 3:19 or breaking the whole law *JAMES 2:10-11.

JLB777 said:
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:14-17 So the Sabbath keeping under the law of Moses is no longer a commandment as it was, because the law of Moses has been abolished, nailed to the cross and taken out of the way.

Again more nonsense which does not address anything in the OP. This is what the OP is about but your only quoting what the OP is about without addressing anything in the OP that disagrees with your understanding of COLOSSIANS 2:16.

Some people try to quote the scripture COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 and claim that this refers to God's seventh day Sabbath of the 4th commandment not realising that there are many Sabbaths included in the bible that are not God's 4th commandment and can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle.

These include;

1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54
9. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

Many of these annual festival sabbaths were prophetic in nature (types and Shadow sabbaths) pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. They are not the same as Gods' 4th commandment which is a weekly memorial of creation in God's 10 commandments.

The context of sabbaths (Greek word meaning sabbaton plural GNP meaning simply ceasing from work) in COLOSSIANS 2:16 is to the annual sabbaths in feast days.

A detailed scripture response starting here for those interested.

The reason why Gods' 4th Commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11 cannot be a shadow (type) Sabbath is because it is a part of the FINISHED WORK of creation. Another words according to the scripture it points backwards to creation not forward to something to come.

Indeed, the weekly Sabbath points back to creation which we as God's people are to remember, as it is written...

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]

The Sabbath is a part of the FINISHED WORK of creation as it is written...

GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], THIS THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH WERE FINISHED, AND ALL THE HOST OF THEM. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.

Being a part of a FINISHED WORK it is impossible for the SABBATH to be a SHADOW law from the MOSAIC book of the law because when the SABBATH was made for all mankind there was NO SIN and mankind was in perfect harmony with God and needed NO SALVATION and there was no plan of salvation given to mankind because mankind did not need saving.

If you disagree show why and prove why you disagree from the scriptures. Dont, just quote a scripture the OP is discussing without addressing anything in the OP that shows why your understanding is in error.

to be continued...

LoveGodsWord · Mar 29, 2020

JLB777 said:
We must look to the writings of the Apostles and Jesus in the New Testament to find answers about the Sabbath keeping today. I have posted 2. Could you share some scriptures from the New Testament, whereby we may find instructions about how the Church is to go about observing the Sabbath today?

Indeed, we have looked at your two scriptures in detail proving through the scriptures alone that they are not saying what you are claiming they are saying with multiple scriptures as provided above. We should indeed also look to the writings of JESUS and the APOSTLES to see what they teach about the God's LAW and the Sabbath.

WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW AND THE SABBATH?
(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive)

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matthew 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matthew 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matthew 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Corinthians 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Romans 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Romans 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Hebrews 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2 Timothy 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Ephesians 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Romans 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Romans 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Romans 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Romans 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Romans 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Romans 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Romans 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Romans 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Galatians 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Romans 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Romans 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Romans 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Hebrews 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Revelation 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Peter 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Peter 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Peter 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Peter 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Peter 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Peter 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Peter 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Peter 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Peter 3:5-14)

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10)

Yep they are not saying what your saying. JESUS and the Apostles are teaching the law and the Sabbath established through faith. Does this not worry you? It should.

pasifika · Mar 29, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
Some teach that Hebrews 4 defines the seventh-day Sabbath commandment in the Decalogue as a shadow-type law pointing forward to a spiritual rest in Christ. They view the Sabbath in the same way the Old Testament sacrifices pointed forward to Christ’s atoning death on the cross. They teach that once we have found “spiritual rest” in Christ, we no longer need to observe the Sabbath day, and that keeping the seventh day is a form of bondage and an act of personal works.

It is true that the primary message of Hebrews 4 is to emphasize the believer’s rest of grace. The main point in Hebrews 3:7–4:11 is for Jewish Christians to persevere in faith and not fall into unbelief and disobedience as did their forefathers. But the reference to the Sabbath in Hebrews 4 is not a shadow of that rest in Christ, but an illustration of that rest.

A shadow or type suggests a fulfillment by Jesus that passes away. For example, when Christ died as the sacrificial Lamb and the temple curtain was torn from top to bottom, it signaled the end of the sacrificial system. We no longer sacrifice lambs because Jesus fulfilled the shadow that pointed forward to the cross.

The Ten Commandments are not part of the types or ceremonies established by God to point the Israelites toward the coming sacrifice of Jesus. The moral law of God is eternal and does not pass away (Psalm 119:160). Presenting the Sabbath as only Jewish is typically an attempt to pluck the fourth commandment out of the law of God and toss it aside. It is presented as a burden to be taken away by Jesus. But God never created the Sabbath to be a burden. To call the Sabbath a burden is a distortion.

The Sabbath is not only for the Jews, but it was a blessing instituted at Creation for all humanity before sin even entered our planet. Even the Old Testament description of true Sabbath-keeping is a picture of freedom, rest, and delight. Isaiah 58:13, 14, tells us that there is a very special blessing involved in keeping the Sabbath:

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable, and shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words, then you shall delight yourself in the Lord; and I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.”

When a believer keeps the Sabbath, he acknowledges the saving work of Christ and ceases from his own works. “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you’ ” (Exodus 31:13). The Sabbath is a sign (not of the miracle-type sign that Christ warns of seeking) that that God saves us. We cannot save ourselves.

The true sign of salvation by faith is found in the Sabbath. The sign of salvation by works will be found in a substitute Sabbath put in place by humans. When people determine to set aside God’s law and keep a day of their own choosing, they are not truly resting in grace, but attempting to be saved by their own works. There is no better way to spot such a deceitful religion than by a spurious or false Sabbath. It really comes down to choosing my way or God’s way.

Hebrews 4 shows that the Israelites, during the time of the exodus, could have found the spiritual rest of grace if they had exercised faith in God and sought a change of heart. The sacrificial system pointed them to the gospel. So also the people during the time of Joshua might have experienced that rest in grace, as also the Israelites in the time of David.

The promise of experiencing God’s grace is still available to us, but it will come only by exercising faith in Jesus. Such faith will show itself in obedience to all of God’s law (John 14:15), not in following the traditions of humans who tell us to set aside the fourth commandment.

Hebrews 4 is about entering into God's rest, God’s rest on the seventh day from His work...
When God declared on oath, that they shall never enter His rest Hebrews 4:3, meaning God confirm what said and puts an end to all argument Hebrews 6:16...meaning He doesn’t change His mind...
We enter into God's rest when we believed the Good news, and that is Not every 7th day but a time in our journey of Faith throughout our lives..... because if anyone who believes in the Good news must show by their works as Jesus said in John 14:12...Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in Me will do the works i have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father....

Jesse Johnson · Mar 29, 2020

JLB777 said:
Yes the command to keep the Sabbath was a requirement under the law of Moses, however the way we keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant has changed.

Yet another baseless claim which conflates covenants and forms of earthly governments.

JLB777 said:
It still a day designed for man to rest, and points to the rest to come.

I would be happy to get squarely behind this claim if you would only produce the Scripture references for which I have already asked in your quote of me.

JLB777 said:
Since we have been given specific instructions about the Sabbath by the writings of the New Testament, we have liberty.

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5

This in no way constitutes "liberty" to break the 4th commandment as it is given (not capitally/governmentally enforced) in the universal, engraved-in-stone, moral code for human beings in the Bible.

JLB777 said:
again

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:14-17

Indeed. Again. We have the unrelated proof text for the justification of disobedience memorized now, thank you.

JLB777 said:
So the Sabbath keeping under the law of Moses is no longer a commandment as it was, because the law of Moses has been abolished, nailed to the cross and taken out of the way.

Pardon me, please, but this is just plain doubletalk, and propagandistic repetition. Copying and pasting something over and over does not make it comprehensively authoritative. Anyone can do that with a limitless number of false doctrines. If Sabbath-keeping was part of the "law of Moses" that "has been abolished," then it is no longer a requirement. Nor is the prohibition of idolatry, murder, stealing, adultery, etc., that is, if your interpretation is to be a cogent one (which, it is not).

JLB777 said:
Since we have been given specific instructions about the Sabbath by the writings of the New Testament, we have liberty.

No, we have not and no, we do not. The majority of instruction regarding the proper keeping of the Sabbath commandment is found in the Old Testament, and is every bit as valid as that which is found in the New. And just because a few ambiguous texts can be produced along with the presupposition that the ten commandments are no longer the moral law for believers, this does not afford us any license, better known in cheap grace advocacy as "liberty."

JLB777 said:
We must look to the writings of the Apostles and Jesus in the New Testament to find answers about the Sabbath keeping today.

This claim is a lofty conclusion that is completely baseless and arbitrary. It simply is nowhere to be found in the Bible in a cohesive or pointed form.

JLB777 said:
I have posted 2.

You have posted exactly -zero- references to the 4th commandment here.

JLB777 said:
Could you share some scriptures from the New Testament, whereby we may find instructions about how the Church is to go about observing the Sabbath today?

I could but I won't. All you've contributed to this discussion is parroting and pretentious demand-making. I'm not going to do a song-and-dance routine to satisfy a requirement that I don't find necessary in the first place, thus effectively, having been manipulated into hypocrisy. The New Testament was not written to tell Christians how to do something that was already spelled out in the Old. Almost nothing is said about how to observe the 3rd commandment. But you won't find any "new covenant" Christians using that as an excuse to take the Lord's name in vain at "liberty." I will say this much: The instruction that was given in the New Testament on Sabbath-keeping was virtually always addressed to people who should have already known how to do so and, instead, were polluting and adulterating it into a veritable byword.

And it would seem that they have succeeded marvelously.

For now

Jesse Johnson · Mar 29, 2020

pasifika said:
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in Me will do the works i have been doing

You mean, like keeping His Father's commandments?

Jesse Johnson · Mar 29, 2020

JLB777 said:
Ok bro.

Make sure you are careful to do all of His word.

Starting with this —

Now the Lord called to Moses, and spoke to him from the tabernacle of meeting, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: When any one of you brings an offering to the Lord, you shall bring your offering of the livestock—of the herd and of the flock.
‘If his offering is a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish; he shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord. Then he shall put his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. He shall kill the bull before the Lord; and the priests, Aaron’s sons, shall bring the blood and sprinkle the blood all around on the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of meeting. And he shall skin the burnt offering and cut it into its pieces. The sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire on the altar, and lay the wood in order on the fire. Then the priests, Aaron’s sons, shall lay the parts, the head, and the fat in order on the wood that is on the fire upon the altar; but he shall wash its entrails and its legs with water. And the priest shall burn all on the altar as a burnt sacrifice an offering made by fire, a sweet aroma to the Lord.
Leviticus 1:1-9

And ending with this:

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:1-17

No mention of the ten commandments being abolished. Just written on human hearts.

bro
.

pasifika · Mar 29, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
You mean, like keeping His Father's commandments?

Not merely outward but must comes from inside....anyone can say or claim they keep God's commandments even the Sabbath (7th day) bUT if they don't show any power of those claims ie healing sick, blind, cast out demons, raise dead etc they just mere words...a "body without the Spirit" is nothing..as Jesus said if you don't believe what I say, then believe the works, as the works testify God living in Me...so same for professing Christians today...

Jesse Johnson · Mar 29, 2020

pasifika said:
if they don't show any power of those claims ie healing sick, blind, cast out demons, raise dead etc they just mere words

The fruit of the spirit is what identifies a good tree--not signs and wonders.

A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;
Matthew 16:4

Jesse Johnson · Mar 29, 2020

pasifika said:
Not merely outward but must comes from inside....anyone can say or claim they keep God's commandments even the Sabbath (7th day) bUT if they don't show any power of those claims ie healing sick, blind, cast out demons, raise dead etc they just mere words...a "body without the Spirit" is nothing..as Jesus said if you don't believe what I say, then believe the works, as the works testify God living in Me...so same for professing Christians today...

For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Revelation 16:14

pasifika · Mar 29, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Revelation 16:14

Those are not miracles they called "good works" as those who needed were benefits from...

pasifika · Mar 29, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
The fruit of the spirit is what identifies a good tree--not signs and wonders.

A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;
Matthew 16:4

Those are called "good works", those who needed received it...ie, blind see, dead raise, leprosy healed, etc those who are suffering from those affliction were healed or set free...

Dkh587 · Mar 29, 2020

pasifika said:
Not merely outward but must comes from inside....anyone can say or claim they keep God's commandments even the Sabbath (7th day) bUT if they don't show any power of those claims ie healing sick, blind, cast out demons, raise dead etc they just mere words...a "body without the Spirit" is nothing..as Jesus said if you don't believe what I say, then believe the works, as the works testify God living in Me...so same for professing Christians today...

Have you raised somebody from the dead?

there is no requirement to raise the dead, heal the blind, or cast demons out in order to keep the Sabbath holy.

Dkh587 · Mar 29, 2020

Jesse Johnson said:
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Revelation 16:14

Also, the Pharoah had magicians that could do several things that Moses and Aaron could do...

they were able to turn their staffs into snakes, they turned water into blood, and even got frogs to come out of the water onto the land of Egypt.

Jesse Johnson · Mar 29, 2020

pasifika said:
Those are not miracles they called "good works" as those who needed were benefits from...

pasifika said:
Those are called "good works", those who needed received it...ie, blind see, dead raise, leprosy healed, etc those who are suffering from those affliction were healed or set free...

Please give Scripture references for signs and wonders being called good works.

Here, let me help:

Bible Search: good work

SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

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