Oldmantook

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They are one in the same. Jesus was a spiritual healer, not a medical doctor or therapist. Jesus healed though the power of spiritual renewal. He never replaced missing limbs or body parts. People like to think He used creative "powers" but they don't read carefully.
Are you kidding? One can have perfect 20/20 physical vision yet remain spiritually blind. That should be quite obvious.
 
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Oldmantook

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Jesus treated them the same.
Absolutely not. He first treated/healed them of physical blindness and as a result they were able to see spiritually. Not all who are physically healed acknowledge God.
"And as they went, they were cleansed. One of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned with a loud voice glorifying God, and fell down on his face at His feet, giving Him thanks. And he was a Samaritan." (Luke 17:14-16)
 
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I am a retired pastor who still can't fully understand some of the Bible's teachings. For example, the Gospel of John clearly presents the truth that the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all Persons in one true God. My intellect has never been able to comprehend that mystery. My comfort is that God has taught me to accept that teaching as the truth. We need to pray for God's gift of the ability to submit to and believe the mysteries of his revealed Word.

I am glad that you accept what the Bible says about the Trinity even if you don't understand it. While I am not claiming to know all things about God, I did not have a problem in understanding the concept of the Trinity. I am an artist, and grew up reading many comics, so my imagination was able to accept things that are more foreign to other people's normal ways of thinking. I thought outside the box a lot.

As you are aware: The Trinity is stating that the Lord our God is one God, and yet He is also three distinct persons, too.

Okay, as for your slight challenge in understanding the Trinity:
Well, have you ever seen those paper chain cutouts of people before in a school before? Imagine three persons in that chain holding hands. You can see three persons in the chain and yet, there is one cut out. In other words, there is one God, and yet he also exists as three distinct persons. Another example? While God is not exactly like Siamese twins, Siamese twins gives us an idea that two or more distinct people can exist in the form of one (or one body), as well. Granted, these are crude examples, but they should help give you the basic idea of the Trinity works or is possible.

So how about the part in Scripture about how Jesus is able to abide in the Father, and the Father in Him? Okay. Think of that paper chain cut out of three people again. But this time, I want you to imagine this cut out as being 3D as if it was like a fillable clear plastic bottle (in the shape of three persons holding hands). Now, imagine if you were to pour three different color liquids into this plastic 3D model whereby each of the liquids would not mix together (kind of like oil in water) but would fill the bottle (Which is in the shape like a 3 person chain model based on the Paper version cut out). The 3 different color liquids represent each of the persons of the Godhead. They would each flow into one another in the 3 person 3D model based off the paper chain cut out. Granted, this is a very crude explanation and it is not obviously how God exactly is in reality, but at least helps us to understand very very very very roughly in the possibility of how the Trinity works in light of other truths revealed to us in Scripture.

I hope this helps, and may God bless you.
 
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You are just Wrong.

Luk 8:9,10

9) And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?

10) And he said,

Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God:

but to others in parables;

that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Nothing about Salvation there.

Mat 13:10-15

10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12) For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13) Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14) And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15) For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Jesus speaking about the Jewish People as a Nation, not Salvation.

The Parable of the Sower clearly is dealing with salvation because Jesus is not giving a parabolic metaphorical explanation to His disciples, but He is giving them the actual literal explanation of what the Parable means when others were not able to hear them speak (Compare the actual parable given to the multitudes - Matthew 13:1-8 with the explanation of the parable’s meaning given to the disciples in Matthew 13:18-23). The explanation by Jesus Himself is that:

  1. The Seed = The Word of God (Luke 8:11).

  2. The Sower = The Son of Man (Jesus) (as referenced from the explanation from another following recent Parable, i.e. the Parable of the Weeds - Matthew 13:37).

  3. The Seed by the Wayside = The person who does not understand God’s Word (Matthew 13:19) and as a result, the devil comes and takes away that word they already heard out of their hearts (Luke 8:12). This prevents the person from understanding the Word of the Kingdom (Matthew 13:19). The devil takes away those words which were sown in their heart on the account of their not understanding (Matthew 13:19). The reason why they do not understand is because they do not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4). This is why their heart is waxed gross. For Matthew 13 says, “For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” (Matthew 13:15). If you were to read Hebrews 3:7-14, you would learn that we are not to be deceived by the deceitfulness of sin and harden our hearts like in the day of the provocation (i.e. the rebellion) by the Israelites that did not enter the promised land on the account of their unbelief and sin. Paul says, “And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.(2 Thessalonians 2:10-12). Jesus says, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” (John 17:17).
Also, the same truths expressed in the explanation of the Parable of the Sower given to His disciples can be read in the rest of the Bible. King David essentially said he hid God's Word in his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord (Psalms 119:11). We know that the same sins mentioned in the Parable of the Sower lead to spiritual death.

  1. The Seed Sown by the Wayside or the One who did not understand God’s Word (Whereby the Enemy Then Snatched the Word out of their heart in order so that they would not believe): Obviously the Lord Jesus had the words of everlasting life. For it is written: “Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? you have the words of eternal life.” (John 6:68). Not believing God’s Word about trusting in the Son of God leads to spiritual death or condemnation. “He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:18). If a person does not speak according to God’s Word there is no light in them; For Isaiah 8:20 says, “if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

  2. The Seed Sown Among Stony Places or the One Who Was Ashamed in Being Persecuted for the Word of God: We see this truth expressed elsewhere in Scripture when Jesus says, “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.” (Mark 8:38). This is said in context of losing and saving one’s soul (See: Mark 8:36-37). Jesus also said a similar thing in Matthew 10:32-33; For He said, “Whoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 10:32-33).

  3. The Seed That Was Choked by Thorns or the Person Who Got Caught Up With the Cares of This Life or Riches: 1 Timothy 6 says, “But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.” (1 Timothy 6:9-11). Why are we told to flee in chasing after riches? For it says that some who have coveted after riches have erred from the faith and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. The other option or path instead of chasing after riches is to chase after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, etc.

  4. The Seed That Was Sown in Good Ground and Was Fruitful or the Person Who Believed God’s Word and Brought Forth Much Fruit: Paul essentially says there are individuals who denied God by a lack of works in Titus 1:16. Jesus says that the branch that does not abide in Him and it does not become fruitful is like a branch that will be cut off and thrown into the fire (See: John 15:1-6). Matthew 25:21 says that the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter the joy of His Lord, and Matthew 25:30 says the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. In Matthew 7:26-27, Jesus says that the person who does not do what He says is like a fool who built His house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and love our neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). Surely there are fruits or actions that we must partake of. Hence, why James says we are to be doers of the Word and not hearers only deceiving our own selves (James 1:22). For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). It’s why John the Baptist said, “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10). Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Yet, Paul said if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22). So if we are not loving Jesus by keeping His commandments, we are accursed. 1 John 2:4 says if any man says they know the Lord and do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them. What truth is not in them? Jesus. For Jesus is the way the Truth and the life (John 14:6). If we abide in the Lord, we will be fruitful because He is the One who does the good work through us. For Philippians 1:11 says, “Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.”
 
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JIMINZ

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So your saying that Jesus was preaching Salvation from sin even though He had not yet been Sacrificed for sin.

Salvation was not available to them before His Crucifixion, they had to reject Him as Messiah before that aspect of His Ministry would become available.

And besides all of the the verse clearly states what the Parables were all about not just that ONE.

Mat 13:10,11
10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

You can spin it any way you want in order to fit with your Doctrine, but the words wont change.

No where in the whole narrative did Jesus mention Salvation, that is your understanding of what you think He meant by what He said, rather than just believing what He actually did say.
 
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So your saying that Jesus was preaching Salvation from sin even though He had not yet been Sacrificed for sin.

Salvation was not available to them before His Crucifixion, they had to reject Him as Messiah before that aspect of His Ministry would become available.

And besides all of the the verse clearly states what the Parables were all about not just that ONE.

Mat 13:10,11
10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

You can spin it any way you want in order to fit with your Doctrine, but the words wont change.

No where in the whole narrative did Jesus mention Salvation, that is your understanding of what you think He meant by what He said, rather than just believing what He actually did say.

"But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins," (Matthew 9:6).

Jesus said "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3) (NKJV).

A Biblical Case For Repentance:


At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that "Repentance" means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

"Asking God for forgiveness of sin" can either refer to: The "Sinner's Prayer" (Initial Salvation) (Romans 10:13), and or the seasoned believer "Confessing one's sin" (Continued Salvation) (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1).

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin.”

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).​

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.
 
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So your saying that Jesus was preaching Salvation from sin even though He had not yet been Sacrificed for sin.

Salvation was not available to them before His Crucifixion, they had to reject Him as Messiah before that aspect of His Ministry would become available.

And besides all of the the verse clearly states what the Parables were all about not just that ONE.

Mat 13:10,11
10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

You can spin it any way you want in order to fit with your Doctrine, but the words wont change.

No where in the whole narrative did Jesus mention Salvation, that is your understanding of what you think He meant by what He said, rather than just believing what He actually did say.

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (John 11:26).
 
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JIMINZ

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"But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins," (Matthew 9:6).

Jesus said "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3) (NKJV).

A Biblical Case For Repentance:


At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that "Repentance" means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

"Asking God for forgiveness of sin" can either refer to: The "Sinner's Prayer" (Initial Salvation) (Romans 10:13), and or the seasoned believer "Confessing one's sin" (Continued Salvation) (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1).

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin.”

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).​

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

The only problem with every single thing you said which I concur is correct, the only thing wrong is.

Were talking about specific verses in Luke and Matthew, which speak only about the Kingdom of God and what he meant by what He had said to the people, where not one single mention is made, but you believe it Alludes to Salvation or, it's just what you have been taught.

Either way, you do not understand literally what Jesus was saying, your fitting it to the Doctrine which you personally follow in whatever Denomination you are.
 
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JIMINZ

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"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (John 11:26).

Now that is a completely different discourse in speaking with Mary, and Martha.
Jesus was not at that time speaking to the People (Nation).

All the Parables are only about the Kingdom of God as stated in Luke and Matthew, as I have said.

Haven you not read.

Mat.13:34
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:34
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

What was being preached?
Act_1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act_8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act_14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Act_19:8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Act_20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Act_28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Act_28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
 
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Paul and James are in perfect agreement.


Yes. Accounted or accredited as righteousness.


This was fulfilled when Abraham obeyed God to offer his son Issac.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:21-24



JLB

James was written before the incident in Acts 21.

Do you think they were in perfect agreement then?

18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
 
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So your saying that Jesus was preaching Salvation from sin even though He had not yet been Sacrificed for sin.

Salvation was not available to them before His Crucifixion, they had to reject Him as Messiah before that aspect of His Ministry would become available.

And besides all of the the verse clearly states what the Parables were all about not just that ONE.

Mat 13:10,11
10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

You can spin it any way you want in order to fit with your Doctrine, but the words wont change.

No where in the whole narrative did Jesus mention Salvation, that is your understanding of what you think He meant by what He said, rather than just believing what He actually did say.

The disciples preached the kingdom of God before the cross:

"And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick."
(Luke 9:2).​

Yet, the kingdom of God was preached after the cross, too:

"Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him."
(Acts of the Apostles 28:31).​

Kingdoms are made up of people.
Jesus is the head of the Kingdom.
For you cannot have a Kingdom without King, and Jesus is he King of Kings.

The Kingdom of God is Jesus.

For the Kingdom can be within a person.

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21).​

Jesus says, "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:7). Jesus stands at the door of men's hearts and knocks to come inside them: "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20). "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love," (Ephesians 3:17).

Jesus identifies Himself as the Kingdom of God when He says,

"But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you." (Luke 11:20).​

When Jesus told His disciples that when they healed the sick, they are to say to them that the Kingdom of God has come near to them.

"And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’" (Luke 10:9).​

This again is Jesus healing them. Jesus is the Kingdom of God. He is the One who heals.

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised," (Luke 4:18).​

Jesus is the One who lives in all believers thereby making up the Kingdom of God's people. It's why we are the body of Christ.

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." (Romans 12:5).
 
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Strong in Him

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The subject is inerrant. Men never are.
The Bible explains this in much detail.
But people ignore what it says.....because other people tell them to.

Is that a "no"?

Maybe you are not aware of the following forum rule:
Challenging Paul's position as an Apostle of Jesus Christ who (although not one of the original twelve) was sent forth by Christ after his conversion [Acts 9:15-16], or arguing against the inclusion of Paul's writings in the New Testament canon, is not allowed in any "Christians Only" forums (including the Controversial Christian Theology forum). You may disagree on the interpretation and application of his writings, but not their place as canon or Paul as an inspired author of Scripture.
Basically, you should not be posting on here if you do not believe that Paul's writings were inspired and are part of God's holy word.
 
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Strong in Him

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They are one in the same.

Not in the slightest.
Thousands of non Christians have physical sight, but are in spiritual darkness.
Whereas Bartimaeus was blind but the only one who recognised Jesus as the Messiah, Mark 10:48.
Jesus taught about spiritual blindness; the Pharisees were claiming that they were not blind, yet they were opposing Jesus, John 9:41.

People like to think He used creative "powers" but they don't read carefully.

Jesus healed people, by the power of God, from physical illnesses - and even brought them back from death. Read about Bartimaeus, the man born blind, Simon's mother in law who had a fever, Jairus' daughter, Lazarus, and others who were deaf and crippled.
 
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JLB777

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Jesus said it that way because He had to, He was under the law of Moses and taught that law. He had not yet gone to the cross to pay the sin debt.

After His death and resurrection, He gave the apostle Paul almost 1/3 of the NT scripture to explain the New Covenant.


I agree with the second paragraph.


Jesus was born under the law, And as a child was circumcised on the eighth day, but was a High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, which Levi was subject to.


Jesus never sinned and had no need of any animal sacrifices.


Jesus was led by the Spirit in all He did.



JLB
 
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Whereas Bartimaeus was blind but the only one who recognised Jesus as the Messiah, Mark 10:48.

The woman at the well appeared to recognize that Jesus was the Messiah.

"The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? " (John 4:28-29).

At another point where Jesus spoke: Some in the crowd who believed in Jesus had answered back to the doubters in defense for Jesus (implying He was the Messiah).

And many of the people believed on him, and said, "When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?"
(John 7:31).

You said:
Jesus healed people, by the power of God, from physical illnesses - and even brought them back from death.

While I believe Jesus worked by the power of God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, I believe Jesus also had power of His own during His earthly ministry:

Jesus had power as God:

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).
 
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JLB777

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I don't think the Parable of the Sower is excluding the rest of God's Word or referring exclusively to Initial Salvation. I believe the Parable of the Sower can include a person being restored back to salvation again if they were to go prodigal for a time, too (Like in the Parable of the Prodigal Son) or like in James 5:19-20 (Meaning: A believer who falls into a sin for a time but they do not deny Jesus is their Savior).


That’s reasonable and a good point.

I’m with you totally in your concept of the Christian life and obeying Jesus as Lord.


I just wanted to point out that the “word” in Luke 8:12 or
Matthew 13:19 is referring to the Gospel message and not necessarily the scriptures.


You and I both agree that a born again Christian must obey the Lord, His Commandments and Doctrine if they want to remain “in Christ”.



JLB
 
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Not in the slightest.
Thousands of non Christians have physical sight, but are in spiritual darkness.
Physical sight is a gift, not a judgment. Just as life is not a judgment of innocence.
Whereas Bartimaeus was blind but the only one who recognised Jesus as the Messiah, Mark 10:48. Jesus taught about spiritual blindness; the Pharisees were claiming that they were not blind, yet they were opposing Jesus, John 9:41. Jesus healed people, by the power of God, from physical illnesses - and even brought them back from death. Read about Bartimaeus, the man born blind, Simon's mother in law who had a fever, Jairus' daughter, Lazarus, and others who were deaf and crippled.

But he never replaced body parts. People were healed through the power of their spirit. The human body is capable of miracles once the Spirit is healed. Even recovery after death and repair of failed organs.

I'm not saying that those with eyes are saved. But those who are saved by the Spirit, can be recovered if not too far gone.


Jeremiah 30:17
For I will restore health to you, and your wounds I will heal, declares the Lord, because they have called you an outcast: ‘It is Zion, for whom no one cares!’

Psalm 41:3
The Lord sustains him on his sickbed; in his illness you restore him to full health.

Isaiah 58:8
Then shall your light break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up speedily; your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.

Psalm 6:2
Be gracious to me, O Lord, for I am languishing; heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul.

Jeremiah 33:6
Behold, I will bring to it health and healing, and I will heal them and reveal to them abundance of prosperity and security.

Proverbs 17:22
A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones.

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.

Leviticus 13:46
He shall remain unclean as long as he has the disease. He is unclean. He shall live alone. His dwelling shall be outside the camp.

Leviticus 13:1-14:57
The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying, “When a person has on the skin of his body a swelling or an eruption or a spot, and it turns into a case of leprous disease on the skin of his body, then he shall be brought to Aaron the priest or to one of his sons the priests, and the priest shall examine the diseased area on the skin of his body. And if the hair in the diseased area has turned white and the disease appears to be deeper than the skin of his body, it is a case of leprous disease. When the priest has examined him, he shall pronounce him unclean. But if the spot is white in the skin of his body and appears no deeper than the skin, and the hair in it has not turned white, the priest shall shut up the diseased person for seven days. And the priest shall examine him on the seventh day, and if in his eyes the disease is checked and the disease has not spread in the skin, then the priest shall shut him up for another seven days

The Spirit controls the body.

Exodus 4:6
Again, the Lord said to him, “Put your hand inside your cloak.” And he put his hand inside his cloak, and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous like snow.
 
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So your saying that Jesus was preaching Salvation from sin even though He had not yet been Sacrificed for sin.

While the disciples did not understand yet about His death and resurrection (during His earthly ministry): Jesus told His disciples beforehand of His death, and resurrection:

"The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day." (Mark 9:31).

John the Baptist said of Jesus:

"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
(John 1:29).

Jesus taught that a person can have salvation in Him and as a result they would be raised (resurrected) on the last day:

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:40).

In other words, the good news is salvation in Jesus. The details of this gospel or good news in having everlasting life in believing in Christ would later include in what He would do for us with His death, burial, and resurrection. This does not mean it is a different gospel before the cross, but merely one that is with less details given. Salvation in Christ's death, burial, and resurrection was always the scope of God's eventual plan of salvation for mankind (Which Jesus Himself foretold). But at the heart of that plan of salvation is Jesus. He is the heart of the gospel message.
 
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But he never replaced body parts.

Actually, Jesus healed Malchus's ear that was chopped off by Peter.

"And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him. " (Luke 22:50-51).
 
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