Do You Follow the Teachings of Messiah?

Do You Follow the Teachings of Messiah?

  • Yes, I pray throughout my day, for Abba to give me the strength to do his will.

    Votes: 5 100.0%
  • No, I'm under grace. I can do what's right in my own eyes, so long as I believe.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    5

HARK!

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Change the poll as an olive branch and I'll gladly participate

If it takes suppressing the light that YHWH has given me, to make peace with you; then you won't have it with me.

Yahshua didn't come to along to give peace to the earth.

If you want to make peace with me; you will put YHWH's light on a lampstand.

If that doesn't suit you; then farewell. This isn't negotiable.
 
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parousia70

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That's right. The law of Moses is the law given to Moses by YHWH. It's the law that Yahshua followed; as he calls us to follow him.

And you demonstrably do NOT follow Moses Commands.

Nonsense.

Rather, PERFECT Sense.
You do not understand what the Law of Moses is. It is a code, a tabernacle, and a priesthood to carry out detailed, specific acts for all covenanted sons of Abraham that must be followed to a tee. None of those things exist today and the Law is NOT being observed and hasn't been since AD 70. Rabbis call AD 70 the "end of biblical judaism" for a reason. Any suggestion of yours that people still follow the Law of Moses today is spoken out of ignorance.

Read Leviticus and demonstrate how you even observe HALF of what is commanded for Law followers.

You fall far short my friend.

Name that last person you stoned to death, as the Law commands you to do, please.

Name the last person you stoned to death.

Prove you sojourned to Jerusalem to to appear before the Lord as the Law commands YOU DO EVERY YEAR on Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles:
(Ex. 23:14-17; 34:18-23)

Links to your Plane tickets and Hotel Receipts for the past 3 years will suffice, Mr. Law follower..
Unless of course you give yourself special dispensation to NOT follow THAT part of the Law?

You don't speak for Yahshua.

No, But Paul Does.

Perhaps you will do a bible study on the book of Galatians, which lays out that the ceremonial law has reached its fulfillment in Christ Jesus. This is why the Old Covenant system of animal sacrifices, Levitical priesthood, circumcision, etc disappeared back in the first century. Paul specifically cites that all those things had at one time been introduced by God to prefigure the coming of Christ (Gal 3:23-29/Col 2:16-20). Now that the Christ has come, those things fall away like scaffolding, and what remains is Christ Himself and His New Coveanant Law.

I strongly encourage you to read the book of Galatians three straight times in a row.
There are some basic, fundamental, concepts that you are not understanding that can't be remedied without you fully grasping Paul's argument in Galatians.

You may also benefit from a Study of the Book of Hebrews, Friend.
3 times straight thru as well.
 
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HARK!

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How does John 3:16 read in the Concordat Literal Version, or CLV?

It's a bit startling.


16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian.
John 3:16 CLV

I don't know what "life eonian" means. If it means eternal life then I don't know why this is qualified with "may be." This is the most bizarre translation I have ever seen.

It is remarkable what you will see when you start reading from a literal translation.

You don't believe that YHWH grants you life by his permission?

Here are the actual words:

G235
CHANGE, but, nevertheless, nay

G2192
HAVE id. next, be, fare

G2222
LIFE

G166
UN+IF+BEING-ian, UN+IF+BEINGED, ever-BEINGED, eonian

If you would like to start a thread on Bible translations; I'll join you there. I've already started one; but it didn't get much attention.

If you have any more comments regarding translations; please limit them to the scope of the OP. Otherwise they will be considered off topic.
 
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HARK!

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And you demonstrably do NOT follow Moses Commands.

Proof?

rather, PERFECT Sense.
Read Leviticus and demonstrate how you even observe HALF of what is commanded for Law followers.

You fall far short my friend.

Name that last person you stoned to death, as the Law commands you to do, please.

Yah's people were still in exile the last time I checked. Where did YHWH command that his people stone the nations to death in their own lands?

Name the last person you stoned to death.

Again, exile.

And? you do?

I'm not the one saying what his specific judgements will be; based on what you speculate as to what I observe.
 
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parousia70

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Here is a short list of verses that I've gathered on sacrifices that will be made in the Kingdom to come.

God stated he would speak to the prophets of Israel in visions and dreams. He also states he would not speak to Moses in this way, but would speak to Moses clearly. Thus we see God clearly contrasting the way he spoke to Moses and the way he would speak to prophets.

Numbers 12:6-7 And he said, “Hear my words: If there is a prophet among you, I the LORD make myself known to him in a vision; I speak with him in a dream .Not so with my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my house. With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the LORD.

God makes it clear that Ezekiel 40-48 are visions.

Ezekiel 40:2 In visions of God he brought me to the land of Israel, and set me down on a very high mountain, on which was a structure like a city to the south.

So how do we interpret this vision? Using the New testament.

According to Ezekiel 37 and 43, The Ezekiel temple is where God would dwell with His people forever.


Ezekiel 37:26-27 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 43:6-7 While the man was standing beside me, I heard one speaking to me out of the temple, and he said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the people of Israel forever. And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoring and by the dead bodiesb of their kings at their high places,c

The NT, through Paul, reveals that we are the temple, that spoken of in Ezekiel.

2 corinthians 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ephesians 2:21-22 n whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.

Use the NT to interpret the OT.
Zechariah 14:8 On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sead and half of them to the western sea. It shall continue in summer as in winter.

John tells us what the coming of living waters is.
John 7:38-39 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Additionally, if the requirements of going to earthly Jerusalem and partaking in the feast of booths are to be literally interpreted, it contradicts the NT.
Zechariah 14:16-19 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths. And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them. And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain;h there shall be the plague with which the LORD afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths. This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.

For Jesus tells us that it is not a requirement to go up to Jerusalem. And Paul states it is not a requirement to partake in the feast of booths.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

So what is the parable of Zechariah 14 pointing to? Jesus and the reality of under the new covenant, the heavenly Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering

You have this Totally Backward friend... Completely ignoring and disregarding the Apostolic Interpretation of these things, in favor of a Carnal desire for the return of the Blood of Bulls and Goats to atone for your Sins... Such is a falling away from Salvation.
I pray you get on the right side of this.
 
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parousia70

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Yah's people were still in exile the last time I checked. Where did YHWH command that his people stone the nations to death in their own lands?

Again, exile.

Chapter and verse to support this "exile" hypothesis pls.

In contrast, Scripture disagrees:

"For Moses said: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me: him you shall hear according to all things whatsoever he shall speak to you. And it shall be, that every soul which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. And all the prophets, from Samuel and afterwards, who have spoken, have told of these days." (Acts 3:22-24)

What do you say "Shall be destroyed from among the people" means?

A temporary chastisement?

Exile?

Please prove your interpretation from Scripture.

Here's the scriptural support for My interpretation.

AGAIN:
"For Moses said: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me: him you shall hear according to all things whatsoever he shall speak to you. And it shall be,that every soul which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. And all the prophets, from Samuel and afterwards, who have spoken, have told of these days." (Acts 3:22-24)

THIS is exactly what happened in the first century.

What part of the SCRIPTURAL MANDATE that they were to
BE DESTROYED FROM AMONG THE PEOPLE
do you disagree with?

Your argument is with SCRIPTURE, not with me.

As Moses and St. Peter had forewarned, the wicked sons of Israel of that generation were dramatically cut off at the destruction of Jerusalem, at AD 66-70. The disobedient sons received many dire warnings from Jesus the Messiah:

"Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites...you are the sons of them that killed the prophets. Fill up then the measure of your fathers. You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar. Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? Behold, you house shall be left to you, desolate" (Matt 23:29,33-38)

Again the Messiah predicted the imminent destruction of the rebellious sons:
When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, saying,

"If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." (Luke 19:41-44)

As a testimony to God's providential care for his faithful remnant, the obedient sons of Abraham were miraculously spared and protected while the wicked sons were judged and destroyed from among the people. Addresing his beloved apostles and followers, Jesus said:

"When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-21).

Once the faithful nation of God's elect were miraculously protected, the doom predicted for wicked brothers would commence. As Jesus forewarned:

"When therefore the Lord therefore of the vineyard comes, what will he do unto those vine-growers? They said unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will rent out his vineyard unto other vine-growers, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus said unto them, Did you never read in the scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, this became the chief corner stone: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?' Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Mt 21:40-45)

And so true Israel---the sons of Abraham who followed the Messiah, as manifested by Providence and by history---was again preserved during a time of national apostasy and tribulation. As was the case in former times with Moses, Elijah, and Isaiah, countless apostates were cut off from among the people. But God's elect Israel, the faithful remnant, triumphed and continued on, spreading the good news of the Kingdom of God to the entire world, in and through the Jewish Church.

God's Covenanted Israel survived *exclusively* in the sect of the Nazarenes. They received with joy their promised New Covenant and obediently rejected all former biases against the non-Abrahamic families of earth so that Genesis 12:3 might finally be attained (Gal 3:7-9/Rom 4:13-18)---via the work of the Jewish Messiah.

This sole surviving form of covenant Judaism is known worldwide as Christianity, the Jewish church gone global. The church always was the covenanted Israel, the church continues to be the covenanted Israel.
The only difference is that the NEW covenant of Israel enabled Jewish fullness to be bestowed upon gentile people groups (Gen 12:3).

AGAIN.
This sole surviving form of covenant Judaism is known worldwide as Christianity, the Jewish church gone global. The church always was the covenanted Israel, the church continues to be the covenanted Israel.
The only difference is that the NEW covenant of Israel enabled Jewish fullness to be bestowed upon gentile people groups (Gen 12:3).
 
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DamianWarS

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If it takes suppressing the light that YHWH has given me, to make peace with you; then you won't have it with me.

Yahshua didn't come to along to give peace to the earth.

If you want to make peace with me; you will put YHWH's light on a lampstand.

If that doesn't suit you; then farewell. This isn't negotiable.
I think you misunderstand my request. I'm not asking you to misrepresent your own view, just don't misrepresent others. That's just called respect.
 
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HARK!

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I think you misunderstand my request. I'm not asking you to misrepresent your own view, just don't misrepresent others. That's just called respect.

I haven't misrepresented your views, As I have asked; you have yet to present your views.

You are officially off topic. I've been patient with you; yet you continue to disrespect my thread. I will not respond to any more of your posts concerning this amorphous matter.
 
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HARK!

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God stated he would speak to the prophets of Israel in visions and dreams. He also states he would not speak to Moses in this way, but would speak to Moses clearly. Thus we see God clearly contrasting the way he spoke to Moses and the way he would speak to prophets.

Numbers 12:6-7 And he said, “Hear my words: If there is a prophet among you, I the LORD make myself known to him in a vision; I speak with him in a dream .Not so with my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my house. With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the LORD.

God makes it clear that Ezekiel 40-48 are visions.

I'm not sure how this is relevant. Are you suggesting that YHWH's word is any less valid, depending on how it is delivered?

The NT, through Paul, reveals that we are the temple, that spoken of in Ezekiel.

So you use Paul, who had a vision, not of a prophet, but of one in need of correction, to interpret the prophets?

Let's break down just this passage alone:

Jeremiah 33
CLV(i) 1 And there is a word of Yahweh unto Jeremiah a second time--and he [is] yet detained in the court of the prison--saying: 2 Thus said Yahweh its maker, Yahweh its former, at establishing it, Yahweh [is] His name:" 3 Call unto Me, and I do answer you, yea, I declare to you great and fenced things--you have not known them." 4 For thus said Yahweh, Elohim of Israel, concerning the houses of this city, and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah, that are broken down for the mounts, and for the tool;" 5 they are coming in to fight with the Chaldeans, and to fill them with the carcases of men, whom I have smitten in Mine anger, and in My fury, and [for] whom I have hidden My face from this city, because of all their evil:" 6 Lo, I am increasing to it health and cure, And have healed them, and revealed to them The abundance of peace and truth." 7 And I have turned back the captivity of Judah, And the captivity of Israel, And I have built them as at the first, 8 And cleansed them from all their iniquity, That they have sinned against Me, And I have pardoned all their iniquities, That they have sinned against Me, And that they transgressed against Me." 9 And it has been to Me for a name of joy, For praise, and for beauty, to all nations of the earth, Who hear of all the good that I am doing them, And they have feared, And they have trembled for all the good, And for all the peace, that I am doing to it." 10 Thus said Yahweh:Again heard in this place of which you are saying, Waste it [is], without man and without beast, In cities of Judah, and in streets of Jerusalem, That are desolated, without man, And without inhabitant, and without beast, 11 Is a voice of joy and a voice of gladness, Voice of bridegroom, and voice of bride, The voice of those saying, Thank Yahweh of Hosts, for Yahweh [is] good, For His kindness [is] to the eon, Who are bringing in thanksgiving to the house of Yahweh, For I turn back the captivity of the land, As at the first, said Yahweh." 12 Thus said Yahweh of Hosts:Again there is in this place--that is waste, Without man and beast, And in all its cities--a habitation of shepherds, Causing the flock to lie down." 13 In the cities of the hill-country, In the cities of the low country, And in the cities of the south, And in the land of Benjamin, And in the suburbs of Jerusalem, And in the cities of Judah, Again does the flock pass by under the hands of the numberer, said Yahweh." 14 Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Yahweh, And I have established the good word That I spoke unto the house of Israel, And concerning the house of Judah." 15 In those days, and at that time, I cause to shoot up to David a shoot of righteousness, And he has done judgment and righteousness in the earth." 16 In those days is Judah saved, And Jerusalem does dwell confidently, And this [is] he whom Yahweh proclaims to her:`Our Righteousness.'" 17 For thus said Yahweh:`Not cut off to David is one sitting on the throne of the house of Israel, 18 And to the priests--the Levites, Not cut off from before Me is one, Causing a burnt-offering to ascend, And perfuming a present, and making sacrifice--all the days.'" 19 And there is a word of Yahweh unto Jeremiah, saying, 20 `Thus said Yahweh:If you do break My covenant of the day, And My covenant of the night, So that they are not daily and nightly in their season, 21 Also My covenant is broken with David My servant, So that he has not a son reigning on his throne, And with the Levites the priests, My ministers."

I take this at face value. Are you saying that Yahshua was just some dream that can be explained away?

Don't tell me that Paul somehow explains part of this away; but not Yahshua's role.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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(CLV) Mt 23:1
Then Jesus speaks to the throngs and to His disciples,

(CLV) Mt 23:2
saying, "On Moses' seat are seated the scribes and the Pharisees.

(CLV) Mt 23:3
All, then, whatever they should be saying to you, do and keep it. Yet according to their acts do not be doing, for they are saying and not doing.

The Torah was read from the Moses Seat.

(CLV) Jn 7:16
Jesus, then, answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) Jn 17:6
I manifest Thy name to the men whom Thou givest Me out of the world. Thine they were, and to Me Thou givest them, and Thy word they have kept.

"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.


(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.
All the Law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ, it was finished and done away in him. We now have the Law of Christ which is the Law of Faith, and this New covenant/Law is what we are to keep.
 
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Charlie24

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God stated he would speak to the prophets of Israel in visions and dreams. He also states he would not speak to Moses in this way, but would speak to Moses clearly. Thus we see God clearly contrasting the way he spoke to Moses and the way he would speak to prophets.

Numbers 12:6-7 And he said, “Hear my words: If there is a prophet among you, I the LORD make myself known to him in a vision; I speak with him in a dream .Not so with my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my house. With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the LORD.

God makes it clear that Ezekiel 40-48 are visions.

Ezekiel 40:2 In visions of God he brought me to the land of Israel, and set me down on a very high mountain, on which was a structure like a city to the south.

So how do we interpret this vision? Using the New testament.

According to Ezekiel 37 and 43, The Ezekiel temple is where God would dwell with His people forever.


Ezekiel 37:26-27 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 43:6-7 While the man was standing beside me, I heard one speaking to me out of the temple, and he said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the people of Israel forever. And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoring and by the dead bodiesb of their kings at their high places,c

The NT, through Paul, reveals that we are the temple, that spoken of in Ezekiel.

2 corinthians 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ephesians 2:21-22 n whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.

Use the NT to interpret the OT.
Zechariah 14:8 On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sead and half of them to the western sea. It shall continue in summer as in winter.

John tells us what the coming of living waters is.
John 7:38-39 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Additionally, if the requirements of going to earthly Jerusalem and partaking in the feast of booths are to be literally interpreted, it contradicts the NT.
Zechariah 14:16-19 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths. And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them. And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain;h there shall be the plague with which the LORD afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths. This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.

For Jesus tells us that it is not a requirement to go up to Jerusalem. And Paul states it is not a requirement to partake in the feast of booths.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

So what is the parable of Zechariah 14 pointing to? Jesus and the reality of under the new covenant, the heavenly Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering

You have this Totally Backward friend... Completely ignoring and disregarding the Apostolic Interpretation of these things, in favor of a Carnal desire for the return of the Blood of Bulls and Goats to atone for your Sins... Such is a falling away from Salvation.
I pray you get on the right side of this.

HARK! is right about Ezekiel's vision.

You make the point that we are the temple of the God. That's true, but only during this present age, the age of Grace, or if you prefer, the age of the Church.

When Christ returns the Church Age is over. There will be no more Catholics, Baptists, Calvinists, etc...

There will be no more false doctrine on earth, all will know the truth because Christ is dwelling with us for 1000 years.

All that enter into this 1000 years are born again, Christ separates the goats from the sheep and judges the goats.

Those who are resurrected from the grave at His coming will have glorified bodies. Those who are alive and remain will have bodies as we have now. So there will be two classifications of people during this 1000 years.

Zechariah tells us that during this time when someone speaks a word against the Lord, their parents will put them to death.

John tells us in Rev. that during this 1000 years Satan will be bound in hell and can't deceive the nations anymore.

The Holy Spirit is now in a new dimension concerning the believer.

As HARK! has rightly said, there will be sacrifices during this time, both Ezekiel and Zechariah tell us this.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Where is this written?



Paul said that he was gratified with the law of YHWH. Was Paul in error?

(CLV) Ro 7:22
For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,
1. Christ Fulfilled the Whole Law of the Covenant:Matt 5:17-20;Luke 16:16-17; Luke 24:25-27, 44-49;John 19:30; Acts 13:38-41; Romans 10:4; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 7:18-19,22; Hebrews 8:4-13; Hebrews 9:14-15; Hebrews 12:2
There is much more than this brother but I do not want to take up the whole page with my response.

2. No Paul was not in error, but then it must be noted that the Law of God he was speaking of was the Law of Christ and the Ten commandments.

Romans 7-Married to a New Husband
6. The law of the covenant hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth(Romans 7:1) just as a woman who is married to a man by law is bound to the husband as long as he liveth(Romans 7:2) that if a woman marry again while the first husband still lives she is in adultery(Romans 7:3). If the husband be dead the woman becomes loosed from the bond(Romans 7:2,3) and is free to marry another man and not be called an adulteress(Romans 7:2,3) in like manner also are we. For at first we were married to the law of the covenant(Romans 7:1) but so that we would not be in adultery we were made dead to the law of the covenant(Romans 7:4,6,8-11) by the body of Christ(Romans 7:4) by the which we could be married again to our New husband who is Christ(Romans 7:4). By this way we are delivered from the letter of the Law of the Covenant(Old Husband) and put under that Spiritual law that came by Christ(New Husband)(Romans 7:6,12,14-16,22,25).

Again there is a much more in depth answer to this question but I do not want to take up all the room on this thread with the response.

God bless you
 
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HARK!

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1. Christ Fulfilled the Whole Law of the Covenant:Matt 5:17-20;Luke 16:16-17; Luke 24:25-27, 44-49;John 19:30; Acts 13:38-41; Romans 10:4; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 7:18-19,22; Hebrews 8:4-13; Hebrews 9:14-15; Hebrews 12:2
There is much more than this brother but I do not want to take up the whole page with my response.

I'm sorry. I guess I should have been more clear. Where does it say that the Torah was done away with.

2. No Paul was not in error, but then it must be noted that the Law of God he was speaking of was the Law of Christ and the Ten commandments.

Then why did Paul circumcise Timothy? Why did he pay for sacrifices at the temple. Was Paul a hypocrite?
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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I'm sorry. I guess I should have been more clear. Where does it say that the Torah was done away with.



Then why did Paul circumcise Timothy? Why did he pay for sacrifices at the temple. Was Paul a hypocrite?

A New covenant will be made:Jeremiah 31:31-34, Isaiah 28:10,13-19, Ezekiel 36:23-27,29-31
The Old Covenant will not stand:Isaiah 28:13-19
1. The New law will be written in their Hearts:Jeremiah 31:33-34, Ezekiel 36:26; Ezekiel 11:19
On a Tried stone will this Covenant be Made:Isaiah 28:16
This New Covenant will give the People a New Spirit:Ezekiel 36:26-27; Ezekiel 11:19
The New Covenant will be of the Promise of Faith:Isaiah 28:16
The Whole Covenant that was the Book of the Covenant would be Fulfilled:Isaiah 28:15,17

Law of Moses Written with Ink and also Engraved on Stones(Joshua 8:29,31-32, 34-35) Done away: 2 Cor 3:3,7-Law that was by the Letter killeth:2 Cor 3:6- Epistle of Christ written by the Spirit in the Fleshy tables of our hearts:2 Cor 3:3-Made able ministers of the New Testament that is of the Spirit:2 Cor 3:6
The Handwriting of Ordinances that was a witness against Israel(Deut 31:26) has been blotted out/completed by Christ’s blood- Colossians 2:14; Hebrews 9:1, 10,11,13,23-28; Ephesians 2:15
Law of Moses- Luke 24:25-27, 44-48; Acts 13:39; Acts 15:5; Acts 28:23; Mark 12:26-27

Fulfilled means to finish, complete, and also to do away. If the Old covenant still stands over us, then there is no new covenant and the Promise of a New Covenant made over and over again by God did not come to pass. There is more for this also.

2. It says it clearly in Acts 16:
1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:

2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.

3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

Timothy was circumcised because the Jews that were there wanted him to be circumcised. It does not say Paul did it because it was necessary or in any way needful, but rather that he was compelled to do it by the Jews. That timothy was a Jew who was circumcised means the Jews would more readily hear him out, the same reason Peter still kept to eating only koser foods since he was sent to the Jews and they would be more apt to listen to what he had to say if he kept their custom(being a Jew to the Jews to win the Jews-1 Cor 9:19-23). Neither circumcision or nor uncircumcision means any thing(Galatians 6:15). Timothy was not constrained to be circumcised for salvation or for any spiritual reason, had it been the case we know that Paul would not have condoned it as he did the attempted Circumcision of Titus(Galatians 2:3-5).

Acts 21:26-28 what we see in Acts 21 is Paul being compelled to perform an act that is against the Law of God, which was the act of offering a sacrifice. Had Paul not been stopped from entering into the temple he may well have partaken of the Sacrificial act, but he was stopped. And afterward we see him openly proclaiming that all sacrifice was finished in the Lord who was the last and Final offering for sin. So what we find is that Paul may not have had a full understanding of the Lord's atoning blood until later on, just as it had to be revealed to Peter that all men were clean and the traditions of the Jews did not have to be kept.
Yahshua is the mediator of the new covenant/testament
Hebrews 12:23-24
Hebrews 13:20-21
Hebrews 9:14-15
1 Timothy 2:3-6
Hebrews 8:4-13
Hebrews 7:18-19,22-24
Hebrews 12:2
Matt 26:26-28
Luke 22:19-20
He was the sacrificial lamb
John 1:29
Yahshua was a High priest after the order of Melchizedek
Hebrews 5:1-10
Hebrews 6:17-20
Hebrews 3:1-2
Hebrews 7:1-17, 20-28
Genesis 14:18-20
Under the old Law blood was to be sprinkled on the alter that was on earth once a year by the high priest for all of Israel's sins.
Hebrews 9:1-10
Leviticus 16:29-34
Christ Sprinkled his blood once on the alter in heaven before the throne of Yahweh. In doing so he fulfilled the old law and brought about the new.
Hebrews 9:11-28
Hebrews 10:1-21
1 Corinthians 11:24-25
1 Peter 1:2, 19
Hebrews 13:11-13,20
Hebrews 12:24
1 John 1:7
Collossians 2:14-15

God bless brother
 
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HARK!

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A New covenant will be made:Jeremiah 31:31-34, Isaiah 28:10,13-19, Ezekiel 36:23-27,29-31
The Old Covenant will not stand:Isaiah 28:13-19
1. The New law will be written in their Hearts:Jeremiah 31:33-34, Ezekiel 36:26; Ezekiel 11:19
On a Tried stone will this Covenant be Made:Isaiah 28:16
This New Covenant will give the People a New Spirit:Ezekiel 36:26-27; Ezekiel 11:19
The New Covenant will be of the Promise of Faith:Isaiah 28:16
The Whole Covenant that was the Book of the Covenant would be Fulfilled:Isaiah 28:15,17

You don't have to pile on the scripture. I'm just looking for a single verse to support your claim that the law was done away with.

As far a as the High Priesthood is concerned, it was transferred, not abolished.

The Levitical Priesthood is an eternal covenant; and they will be making sacrifices in the Kingdom to come.

Yahshua's entire ministry was about keeping his father's law. Why would he preach the entire time to keep that which was to be abolished. Why would all of his disciples keep it after Yahshua ascended if it had been abolished?

No matter, just one verse.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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You don't have to pile on the scripture. I'm just looking for a single verse to support your claim that the law was done away with.

As far a as the High Priesthood is concerned, it was transferred, not abolished.

The Levitical Priesthood is an eternal covenant; and they will be making sacrifices in the Kingdom to come.

Yahshua's entire ministry was about keeping his father's law. Why would he preach the entire time to keep that which was to be abolished. Why would all of his disciples keep it after Yahshua ascended if it had been abolished?

No matter, just one verse.
Not trying to pile it on brother, just giving a moderate amount for each point instead of Just a single verse. If only one verse is used then the full picture cannot clearly be seen.

It was changed permanently with Christ, as was the Law(Hebrews 7).

Yahshua kept the Law of Moses because he had to live a sinless life under the law, doing that which was impossible for man but not impossible for God. He preached that they keep the Law while the Law was still in place, while men were still sitting in authority(Matt 23:1-3). Yet at the same time he spoke the law of Christ in parable that none could understand(Matt 13:11), and none did truly understand until the Law was finished and their understanding was opened by the Spirit(Luke 24:45-47). The disciples kept the Law of Christ and the Ten commandments after Christ's ascension, not the Law of Moses though we do at times see the Apostles being corrected for wrongly following the Law of Moses or for keeping to the Traditions of the Jews. But they were always corrected.

I have shown several now brother, but here is one and if it is not enough there are many more(Colossians 2:14-17). The Law of Moses was nailed to the Cross since the Mosaic law was just a shadow of the Good things that were to come in Christ(Salvation, Grace, Law of Christ, etc).

God bless brother.
 
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HARK!

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Paul did it because it was necessary or in any way needful, but rather that he was compelled to do it by the Jews.

You're suggesting that Paul caved in cowardice? Are you suggesting that he was fake; putting on an outward show for the world; using another man as a pawn?
I reject any hint that Paul was a deceiver. Paul went to his death for the truth.

Is it more likely that as Abraham showed the outward sign of faith; only after the inward circumcision of the heart had already taken place?

Wherefore Timothy was ready for the outward sign, of what had already taken place within?

The same with is true Baptism. The outward sign means nothing; if there hasn't been a change within.

Therein lies the injustice with Titus. He was new to the faith. The non-believing Pharisees were pushing their tradition (which Yahshua rebuked) in an attempt to put the cart before the horse. Abraham came to faith before he was called to circumcision. I believe that he was over 100 when he finally took that step. These guys weren't even of the faith. They didn't even obey the Torah. They were pushing the Talmud.
 
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HARK!

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Yahshua kept the Law of Moses because he had to live a sinless life under the law, doing that which was impossible for man but not impossible for God.

(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.
 
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Yet at the same time he spoke the law of Christ in parable that none could understand(Matt 13:11)

No one but you; and that is when he told us all that he lived his whole life to teach us a message of obedience to a vanishing law.

Sorry, but I'll go with what he clearly stated.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of THE LAW to fall.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Mt 7:21
"Not everyone saying to Me `Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 7:22
Many will be declaring to Me in that day, `Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?'

(CLV) Mt 7:23
And then shall I be avowing to them that `I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of lawlessness!'
 
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