17 year old dies of coronavirus after being denied treatment due to lack of insurance.

Hank77 said:

That wasn't the point of the article. The point was he couldn't get care or even tested when he needed to.

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That was the spin the article was attempting to get people to buy. It was not the reality of the situation.

grasping the after wind said:

(...)
Just out of curiosity though who was it that decided this person did not need health insurance?

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You are insinuating he had to have health insurance.

grasping the after wind said:

(...) No one needs to be forced to care about their own well being. I actually want the true answer.

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Oh, you are suggesting he is free on whether to take health insurance, and so not having it is ok.

Better choose a side then otherwise it is easy to dodge any answer that you don't like.

grasping the after wind said:

(...)I actually want the true answer.

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You ACTUALLY want the answer huh? You do realize that it is none of your business who took that decision, right?

Velaut said:

You are insinuating he had to have health insurance.

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No, I am not insinuating anything. I am asking a question. If someone wants me to blame the lack of health insurance for a person's death as the author of the article is insinuating that I should,
I think it is reasonable to ask why that person lacked health insurance.

Velaut said:

Oh, you are suggesting he is free on whether to take health insurance, and so not having it is ok.

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I am not suggesting anything, I am stating categorically that he and his parents were free to get health insurance if they so desired therefore if the author wants to insinuate that the lack of health insurance was the cause of death( which it wasn't )then the blame for that would be with those that made the decision not to have it. Blaming an outside entity for not forcing them to have it is illogical and unreasonable.

Velaut said:

Better choose a side then otherwise it is easy to dodge any answer that you don't like.

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I choose the side of reality over the side of political propaganda that the author of the article chose.

Velaut said:

You ACTUALLY want the answer huh? You do realize that it is none of your business who took that decision, right?

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The author of the article wants me to believe something about a 17 year old's death that relates to lacking health insurance. If his lack of health insurance is not my business then the author is at fault for bringing it up. You should tell the author not to bring up things that are not our business.

Ana the Ist said:

That's not how it works in Canada.

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Ummm yes it is, hospitals will take care of you if they can, they are obligated to do so.

grasping the after wind said:

The author of the article wants me to believe something about a 17 year old's death that relates to lacking health insurance.

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I agree, that is what the author wants us to believe but it is still a fact that he was turned away from the urgent care clinic. The father says that they were told that it was because they didn't have insurance.

Hank77 said:

I agree, that is what the author wants us to believe but it is still a fact that he was turned away from the urgent care clinic. The father says that they were told that it was because they didn't have insurance.

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The few urgent care facilities I have used in the past accepted checks and cash and credit cards if one had no health care insurance. The facility in the article did not simply say "go away you don't have insurance" they told them to go to an emergency room which was the best advice they could have gotten at the time. Whether this particular urgent care facility is an evil entity only concerned with collecting insurance money alone or if they recognized they would not be equipped to treat the 17 yeas r old's condition and were giving the proper medical advice.

loveofourlord said:

Ummm yes it is, hospitals will take care of you if they can, they are obligated to do so.

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But it's not free.

Ana the Ist said:

But it's not free.

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it is to me, 2 er visits xrays, inhaler, and forgot that I got I believe antibiotics for my pnuemonia, all for 0$'s, sure I pay a bit for my taxes, but it's not the 4k+ those might have cost a american.

loveofourlord said:

sure I pay a bit for my taxes

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Oh good...we agree it's not free.

Ana the Ist said:

Oh good...we agree it's not free.

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the amount we pay per person is a fraction of what you pay, and it's taken from our taxes that goes to other things too

loveofourlord said:

the amount we pay

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Oh good...we agree it's not free.

GodsGrace101 said:

How do YOU know what would have happened in another developed nation?
Which nation on earth is more developed than the U.S. ?

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In NZ you don't need health insurance in order to get medical care.

stevil said:

In NZ you don't need health insurance in order to get medical care.

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OK,,,then speak for NZ if the health care there is so great.

I live in Italy.
Health care is free here too.
But if you want to get well, you have to pay private doctors - for more than one reason.

I haven't lived in the states for many years,
but when I was there, and probably even now,
it has the best health care anywhere.

Those that cannot afford health insurance and do not have it at work can STILL go to a hospital that is assigned to their area and is probably better than any hospital here.

loveofourlord said:

the amount we pay per person is a fraction of what you pay, and it's taken from our taxes that goes to other things too

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I haven't been following along and I don't know where you live....
But @Ana the Ist is right...
NOTHING in life is free.
Not even love.

You like a socialist system...
I live in one and I DO NOT believe it's a good system.
I also pay more taxes to have this.....what to call it?

But herein lies the head of the nail:

I can CHOOSE to NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.
I CANNOT CHOOSE to NOT pay my taxes.

Socialism does not support personal freedom.
Everything you get from a government must be paid for and usually with someone's soul.

GodsGrace101 said:

I haven't been following along and I don't know where you live....
But @Ana the Ist is right...
NOTHING in life is free.
Not even love.

You like a socialist system...
I live in one and I DO NOT believe it's a good system.
I also pay more taxes to have this.....what to call it?

But herein lies the head of the nail:

I can CHOOSE to NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.
I CANNOT CHOOSE to NOT pay my taxes.

Socialism does not support personal freedom.
Everything you get from a government must be paid for and usually with someone's soul.

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here it the thing, life and heatlh isn't something that should be relegatd to the richer, is ones worth for life entirly based upon how much money they have?

loveofourlord said:

here it the thing, life and heatlh isn't something that should be relegatd to the richer, is ones worth for life entirly based upon how much money they have?

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I don't know what you mean by this.
I haven't lived anywhere where only the rich had life and health.

Do you mind saying where you live? Maybe there's a way I can find out, but can't work this site so well.

I'll say this however,,,,the rich have it better all around and no matter where they live.

Socialists (of which I think you're one) seem to think that we should all be the same.

We cannot all be the same. And if a country tries this,,,,the problem is that all will be the same in a downward trend --- never in an upward trend.

I have a friend in Norway and it seems to work well there...but I'm not familiar with their system. He gets all his money taken except what is absolutely necessary to live...but he's happy with what he gets.

I have NOT had this experience and notice that socialism has failed in almost every country where it was tried.

If a doctor gets paid by the state for showing up for work every day....where is his INCENTIVE for doing a good job?

GodsGrace101 said:

I don't know what you mean by this.
I haven't lived anywhere where only the rich had life and health.

Do you mind saying where you live? Maybe there's a way I can find out, but can't work this site so well.

I'll say this however,,,,the rich have it better all around and no matter where they live.

Socialists (of which I think you're one) seem to think that we should all be the same.

We cannot all be the same. And if a country tries this,,,,the problem is that all will be the same in a downward trend --- never in an upward trend.

I have a friend in Norway and it seems to work well there...but I'm not familiar with their system. He gets all his money taken except what is absolutely necessary to live...but he's happy with what he gets.

I have NOT had this experience and notice that socialism has failed in almost every country where it was tried.

If a doctor gets paid by the state for showing up for work every day....where is his INCENTIVE for doing a good job?

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no you don't understand socialism, it's not all should be the same, but all should have equal opportunities and things that are univresal rights should be so, health isn't something that only the rich should afford, and I'm talking about united states, I'm Canadian. In the US you have people dying because of not enough health care, or going bankrupt trying to pay for it. Half a million americans a year go bankrupt trying to pay for healthcare, many others die from easily preventable3 disease rather then disk having to pay for stuff. Things like heart attacks is a leading cause, they get the symptoms, but don't want to go in case it's nothing andc get charged for it.

GodsGrace101 said:

I don't know what you mean by this.
I haven't lived anywhere where only the rich had life and health.

Do you mind saying where you live? Maybe there's a way I can find out, but can't work this site so well.

I'll say this however,,,,the rich have it better all around and no matter where they live.

Socialists (of which I think you're one) seem to think that we should all be the same.

We cannot all be the same. And if a country tries this,,,,the problem is that all will be the same in a downward trend --- never in an upward trend.

I have a friend in Norway and it seems to work well there...but I'm not familiar with their system. He gets all his money taken except what is absolutely necessary to live...but he's happy with what he gets.

I have NOT had this experience and notice that socialism has failed in almost every country where it was tried.

If a doctor gets paid by the state for showing up for work every day....where is his INCENTIVE for doing a good job?

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things like medicine, and education shouldn't be monitary based, a smart poor person should have as much of a chance to get a education, but in unfortunetly both in US and canada that doesn't happen as often.

Same with health.

loveofourlord said:

no you don't understand socialism, it's not all should be the same, but all should have equal opportunities and things that are univresal rights should be so, health isn't something that only the rich should afford, and I'm talking about united states, I'm Canadian. In the US you have people dying because of not enough health care, or going bankrupt trying to pay for it. Half a million americans a year go bankrupt trying to pay for healthcare, many others die from easily preventable3 disease rather then disk having to pay for stuff. Things like heart attacks is a leading cause, they get the symptoms, but don't want to go in case it's nothing andc get charged for it.

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I understand socialism really well
I live in a socialist country.
At one time the TV stations all belonged to the state (all 3 of them) we could discuss why, if you wish to really get into this.

The state owned the phone system, the electric syste, the gas system, etc. It owned everything. These services were sold to private companies, including water service, only recently - maybe in the past 20 years or so.

As to the health system,,,I don't know about Canada, but persons die all over the world due to poor health care. I don't know who these half million persons are that you speak of but I do know that persons are not dying due to the government not helping them...I would suppose that every situation is different, as it is in any case and in any country.

I could tell you stories....

Anyway, socialism is an economic system that strives to make everyone equal --- as I've already said, this is impossible and the trend will always be to make everyone worse off, not better off.

I'm not rich and neither are my brothers and son that live in the NY area and they are all covered by health insurance. And have access to the best doctors and hospitals, but this is also because of where they live.

Socialism does not GIVE opportunities,,,it takes them away.

I asked you about motivation...did you answer?

loveofourlord said:

things like medicine, and education shouldn't be monitary based, a smart poor person should have as much of a chance to get a education, but in unfortunetly both in US and canada that doesn't happen as often.

Same with health.

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How does one have a chance to get a good education when there are just a few universities because the state can't afford to build anymore? Each university here has a set number of students that it can accept.
I know a person that wanted to study to be a doctor but there was no room for him...so he changed his career decision. This is a terrible system. And how much do professors help their students if each professor makes the same amount of money - it isn't a lot - and, again, there is no MOTIVATION to do well (the downward trend again).

Socialism if the OPPOSITE of what those that believe in it THINK it is.

If Bernie Sanders ever won the presidency in the U.S., it would be the end of the U.S.

There are universities of every price range in the states and the government helps with the expenses if a person can't afford it...low cost loans, scholarships, etc.

My friend that wants to be a doctor has no option, except to leave Italy.