Jesus was punished for our sins, but are we forgiven?

Loversofjesus_2018

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2018
653
198
33
West coast
✟32,008.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No Christian is sinless/perfect in the flesh, so they will commit sin in some way or another.
But there is a big difference between that and being consumed by sin, or enslaved by it, or living a lifestyle of sin. Two very different things
Where in scripture does it describe what being consumed by sin is? Where is the line? It can’t just be left up to us to decide what “consumed by sin” is. To me consumed by sin might mean if you do the same thing 5 times. Someone else it might be 10 times. Clearly that cannot work. This is why it’s so dangerous for Christians yo just start making assumptions that we know so much because when asked for clarity it’s seems it cannot be given. I do understand the point your making but can you truly apply such a vague description? What actually does being consumed by sin mean if you don’t mind?
 
Upvote 0

Loversofjesus_2018

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2018
653
198
33
West coast
✟32,008.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If I may...we'll continue to be tested, to struggle with sin, against the "concupiscence" that draws us to it. And in this test we sort of define ourselves, either oriented towards righteousness and gaining/improving in it overall with the help of grace, by living in the Spirit, or failing and choosing evil in the overall sense, living by the flesh. At the end of the day, God, who judges by the heart, will decide how we've done overall.

I appreciate one teaching I'm familiar with that summarizes this best IMO: "At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love." If fellowship with God, a relationship entered into via faith, hasn't resulted in a degree of love and the kind of fruit that it naturally produces including triumph over the sin that it opposes by its nature, then such faith hasn't availed anything of value.
I like this. Thank you
 
Upvote 0

not under law

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2020
428
115
Worcester
✟18,172.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Where in scripture does it describe what being consumed by sin is? Where is the line? It can’t just be left up to us to decide what “consumed by sin” is. To me consumed by sin might mean if you do the same thing 5 times. Someone else it might be 10 times. Clearly that cannot work. This is why it’s so dangerous for Christians yo just start making assumptions that we know so much because when asked for clarity it’s seems it cannot be given. I do understand the point your making but can you truly apply such a vague description? What actually does being consumed by sin mean if you don’t mind?
You need to decide-or discern for yourself.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John1:8

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God 1John3:9
 
Upvote 0

Loversofjesus_2018

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2018
653
198
33
West coast
✟32,008.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You need to decide-or discern for yourself.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John1:8

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God 1John3:9
Ok, thats fair but will lead to lots of different answers. Can all these answers be correct? Can differing answers come from the same Holy Spirit? It seems very problematic for human beings to interpret scripture for them self because of the differing views that will come out of it. Thanks
 
Upvote 0

Bobber

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2004
6,584
3,076
✟213,623.00
Faith
Non-Denom
First being a Christian isn't about just believing certain beliefs. It's about actually coming into relationship with God. Now it is also yes about understanding certain things and agreeing to them but one can do that and never receive eternal life. John 1:12 states, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name..."

Here's the simple process.

Rom 10:9-10..............“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

You hear the good news that Jesus died as your substitute. Rom 10:14 Some call it the Great Exchange...He took our death and gave us his life. (tasted death Heb 2:9) He took our sins and gave us his righteousness. He took our sorrows and gave us his joy. He took our griefs and gave us his peace. Isaiah 53:4 You hear that and you confess the Lordship of Christ in other words you identify and agree with him on what he said he did for you.

Sadly people get confused on just what New Covenant repentance for the sinner is. It is not repentance from sin, that is in the way that some think about it. Repentance simply means turn around, that is from having one lord, Satan and being a part of the Kingdom of darkness to embracing a new Lord....The Lord Jesus Christ. You embrace Jesus by agreeing with him by your spoken words. "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

Confession is made unto salvation. Let me illustrate things that are made unto something. Money is used unto the embracing and owning products that you buy. Or your vote is made unto you're making a reality someone to be the leader of a kingdom. Jesus said by your words you are justified or by your words you're condemned. Matt 12:37

So agree with him in what he said he did for you on the cross. And agree with him in what he said about the resurrection in that when he died...your old man sinful nature died.....and when Jesus arose from the dead.....you did as well. A part of that agreement includes the blood of Jesus which remits your sins or having them blotted out.

In the time of the Old Testament which includes Jesus time in the gospels men sought forgiveness of sins. Their sins could be pardoned and covered but they weren't blotted out until Jesus arose from the dead. Our sins if we confess and identify with Christ today are not merely covered...they're blotted out and we've been made the very righteousness of God in Christ. Not in ourselves but In Christ.

But by our coming into agreement with him with our words of agreement those words define our position in the realm of the spirit. So New Testament repentance is really doing an about face on who OUR Lord is. Put the focus on the Lordship and not how you're thinking about the deeds of sin. Deeds of sins are blotted out upon your declaring the Lordship of Christ. That's not to say once you've received LIFE, eternal life JESUS, you don't now sanctify yourself by overcoming sin....but you do that now by the life and power of God in you. Overcoming sin now isn't to get you saved. You already are. But it's about working out the salvation you've received.

"I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5
 
  • Like
Reactions: zoidar
Upvote 0
Dec 16, 2011
5,208
2,548
57
Home
Visit site
✟234,667.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I believe everyone sins.

Do you mean a born again believer's wrong doing isn't counted as sin? I wouldn't agree to that.

I don't know how to understand 1 John 3:9.
Understand it as being true for any particular believer, only from one moment to another. If one is in Communion with God in the Holy Spirit at a certain moment, due to grace being received on account of that person's orientation towards God, in repentance, then one does not/can not sin, because they are in that moment "one" with God in Whom there is no sin. However, if temptation comes and that person gives in to it (it could even be a temptation to entertain a sinful thought or idea), then that person has chosen to be afflicted with sin rather than drink from the well-spring of God's grace, and so grace begins to depart from them. Thus, they can sin in both thought and deed. They can also repent and be reunited in Communion with God once again.
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,164
2,606
✟877,132.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
First being a Christian isn't about just believing certain beliefs. It's about actually coming into relationship with God. Now it is also yes about understanding certain things and agreeing to them but one can do that and never receive eternal life. John 1:12 states, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name..."

Here's the simple process.

Rom 10:9-10..............“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

You hear the good news that Jesus died as your substitute. Rom 10:14 Some call it the Great Exchange...He took our death and gave us his life. (tasted death Heb 2:9) He took our sins and gave us his righteousness. He took our sorrows and gave us his joy. He took our griefs and gave us his peace. Isaiah 53:4 You hear that and you confess the Lordship of Christ in other words you identify and agree with him on what he said he did for you.

Sadly people get confused on just what New Covenant repentance for the sinner is. It is not repentance from sin, that is in the way that some think about it. Repentance simply means turn around, that is from having one lord, Satan and being a part of the Kingdom of darkness to embracing a new Lord....The Lord Jesus Christ. You embrace Jesus by agreeing with him by your spoken words. "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

Confession is made unto salvation. Let me illustrate things that are made unto something. Money is used unto the embracing and owning products that you buy. Or your vote is made unto you're making a reality someone to be the leader of a kingdom. Jesus said by your words you are justified or by your words you're condemned. Matt 12:37

So agree with him in what he said he did for you on the cross. And agree with him in what he said about the resurrection in that when he died...your old man sinful nature died.....and when Jesus arose from the dead.....you did as well. A part of that agreement includes the blood of Jesus which remits your sins or having them blotted out.

In the time of the Old Testament which includes Jesus time in the gospels men sought forgiveness of sins. Their sins could be pardoned and covered but they weren't blotted out until Jesus arose from the dead. Our sins if we confess and identify with Christ today are not merely covered...they're blotted out and we've been made the very righteousness of God in Christ. Not in ourselves but In Christ.

But by our coming into agreement with him with our words of agreement those words define our position in the realm of the spirit. So New Testament repentance is really doing an about face on who OUR Lord is. Put the focus on the Lordship and not how you're thinking about the deeds of sin. Deeds of sins are blotted out upon your declaring the Lordship of Christ. That's not to say once you've received LIFE, eternal life JESUS, you don't now sanctify yourself by overcoming sin....but you do that now by the life and power of God in you. Overcoming sin now isn't to get you saved. You already are. But it's about working out the salvation you've received.

"I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

Good teaching! :amen:
 
Upvote 0

nolidad

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 2, 2006
6,762
1,269
69
onj this planet
✟221,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
WERE we forgiven?

It's something I have been thinking about.

Was I allready forgiven before I came to faith, I just hadn't received it, or was I first forgiven when I repented and came to faith?

Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?

What does the Bible say?

to put it simply, the bible speaks of two truths of a believers life.

1. There is our experience. Where we are growing in grace and knowledge of the Lord and being conformed daily into the image of Jesus! When we sin, our relationship with God is still as secure as ever, but our fellowship with god is broken by sin. We must acknowledge our sin so that forgiveness can be applied to our fellowship with God!

2. There is our position. This is where God already sees us a perfect, justified, glorified and seated in heaven. This is ours the since the foundation of the world- and we had to recieve it in time. God chose us to salvation and He began His work in us long before we were aware he was working!

So we do not confess sin to regain our salvation but to restore our fellowship. IOW our relationship is eternally secure, but our fellowship with God can be broken by sin.

Hope this helps.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hazelelponi

I'm back
Supporter
Jun 25, 2018
9,210
8,688
55
USA
✟676,606.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
WERE we forgiven?

It's something I have been thinking about.

Was I allready forgiven before I came to faith, I just hadn't received it, or was I first forgiven when I repented and came to faith?

Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?

What does the Bible say?

"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." Romans 5:9-10
 
  • Like
Reactions: zoidar
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,441
8,394
up there
✟303,760.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." Romans 5:9-10
Is that not referring to the resurrection and newly formed Kingdom? A way out but not guaranteed to all.
 
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
9,848
1,707
58
New England
✟484,045.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." Romans 5:9-10

Good Day,

Shalom peace... Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

In Him,

Bill
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,164
2,606
✟877,132.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." Romans 5:9-10

When I am an enemy to the cross am I reconciled to God? Wasn't it when I as an enemy repented and came to faith? Maybe it's both? Romans 5 trickiest of them all. ^_^
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,441
8,394
up there
✟303,760.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
When I am an enemy to the cross am I reconciled to God? Wasn't it when I as an enemy repented and came to faith? Maybe it's both? Romans 5 trickiest of them all. ^_^
It all refers to and focuses on the new Kingdom.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,441
8,394
up there
✟303,760.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
How do you mean?
Jesus came to teach and bring about the Kingdom. Period. All NT scripture must be read with that in mind. Everything is Kingdom related. Theology has gotten people thinking in other ways but one must remember, Kingdom first when interpreting scripture.
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,164
2,606
✟877,132.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Jesus came to teach and bring about the Kingdom. Period. All NT scripture must be read with that in mind. Everything is Kingdom related. Theology has gotten people thinking in other ways but one must remember, Kingdom first when interpreting scripture.

I'm not sure I fully understand you, though it sounds good.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums