UNDER THE LAW!

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Dkh587

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On what basis do you claim otherwise?
Give me two (only two) great examples. Thanks.
Preferably not examples of a reference to the books of the law. If you know the difference.
Nor OBVIOUSLY any example where the word "of" follows "the law". As in "the law of..."
Paul clearly taught that the doers of the law of God/Moses will be declared righteous before God.

you present Paul as contradicting himself, because he says in the next chapter that no flesh is justified by “works of law” and in several other places.

I am confident you do not think that Paul is contradicting himself, but your understanding of what “works of law” are, creates and sustains a contradiction throughout the NT.

Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight
 
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topher694

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There are no important parts of theology covered by only one writer.
God is WAY smarter than to leave important points to one writer.
This may help:
John 8:12
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world.
Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
So, your saying parts of the Bible are unimportant?
 
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Saint Steven

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Is English your first language?
Chapter and verse, please.

Saint Steven said:
Well, no one in the Bible uses the term "YHWH's law". What scope do you assign to such a term? What is it? How do you define it?
 
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Dkh587

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Chapter and verse, please.

Saint Steven said:
Well, no one in the Bible uses the term "YHWH's law". What scope do you assign to such a term? What is it? How do you define it?
I’m asking because your argument is so fallacious, it would only be an argument I would expect from someone whose first language is not English.

God’s law is synonymous with the law of God. It’s the same thing. You’re arguing a fallacy.
 
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not under law

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You said the law is written in your heart, yet you do not obey what the law says.

This doesn’t make sense, because if you claim the law is written on your heart, yet you do not keep the requirements of the law, then the law is not(and can not be) written on your heart, if this is so.
Its quite simple, God did not write the Levitical unclean food laws or a set Saturday sabbath in your heart and mind or mine. If he had, you would not have had to read what was written in ink to know them.
 
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Saint Steven

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Paul clearly taught that the doers of the law of God/Moses will be declared righteous before God.

you present Paul as contradicting himself, because he says in the next chapter that no flesh is justified by “works of law” and in several other places.

I am confident you do not think that Paul is contradicting himself, but your understanding of what “works of law” are, creates and sustains a contradiction throughout the NT.

Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight
You can't use Romans 2:13 to justify the works of the law which are elsewhere condemned. That is not Paul's point here. It is addressed to Jews, as the hearers and not the doers. Does little good.
 
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Dkh587

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Its quite simple, God did not write the Levitical unclean food laws or a set Saturday sabbath in your heart and mind or mine. If he had, you would not have had to read what was written in ink to know them.
according to you, you don’t keep the Sabbath holy.

By your own admission, the law, nor the requirements of the law, are written on your heart.
 
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not under law

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Paul clearly taught that the doers of the law of God/Moses will be declared righteous before God.
Can I ask you, in romans 7:14-24 who is being spoken of, Saul the Pharisee or Paul the Christian?
 
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not under law

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according to you, you don’t keep the Sabbath holy.

By your own admission, the law, nor the requirements of the law, are written on your heart.
Its quite simple, God did not write the Levitical unclean food laws or a set Saturday sabbath in your heart and mind or mine. If he had, you would not have had to read what was written in ink to know them.
 
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Dkh587

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Can I ask you, in romans 7:14-24 who is being spoken of, Saul the Pharisee or Paul the Christian?
Paul is writing about himself.

after he converted, he still claimed to be a Pharisee Acts of the Apostles 23:6
 
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Saint Steven

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I’m asking because your argument is so fallacious, it would only be an argument I would expect from someone whose first language is not English.

God’s law is synonymous with the law of God. It’s the same thing. You’re arguing a fallacy.
No, I'm making an attempt to keep all the definitions straight. Something you care nothing about. Mostly because it weakens your stance, I suppose. Can't play fast and loose when things are nailed down.

Define the law of God for us. Thanks.
 
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Dkh587

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Its quite simple, God did not write the Levitical unclean food laws or a set Saturday sabbath in your heart and mind or mine. If he had, you would not have had to read what was written in ink to know them.
Your argument is now moot, and it’s a poor attempt at a trump card.
 
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not under law

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Your argument is now moot, and it’s a poor attempt at a trump card.
Not at all, God did not write those two laws in your heart and mind either, so why find fault with me?
 
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not under law

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Paul is writing about himself.

after he converted, he still claimed to be a Pharisee Acts of the Apostles 23:6
Thank you for your response. You say the doers of the law will be justified. It seems your requirements to be a doer of the law are extremely low.
For you, believe Paul the Christian was sold as a slave to breaking the law/sin, sin was his master and he was sins slave. He could not do the good he wanted to do but only the evil he did not want to do. That's fine, but how does that tally with righteousness of obeying the law?
 
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Dkh587

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No, I'm making an attempt to keep all the definitions straight. Something you care nothing about. Mostly because it weakens your stance, I suppose. Can't play fast and loose when things are nailed down.

Define the law of God for us. Thanks.
According to the Law, Prophets, and NT, the law of God is a book, consisting of Genesis through Deuteronomy.

It is interchangeably called the law of God, law of Moses, and the law of Yahweh

Nehemiah 8:1
and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which Yahweh had commanded to Israel.

Nehemiah 8:8
So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly

Nehemiah 8:14
And they found written in the law which Yahweh had commanded by Moses

Nehemiah 8:18
Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God

1 Chronicles 16:40
and to do according to all that is written in the law of Yahweh, which he commanded Israel

2 Chronicles 17:9
And they taught in Judah, and had the book of the law of Yahweh with them

2 Chronicles 31:3
as it is written in the law of Yahweh

2 Chronicles 34:14
Hilkiah the priest found a book of the law of Yahweh given by Moses

Luke 2:22-24
And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to Yahweh, As it is written in the law of Yahweh, (Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to Yahweh) And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of Yahweh
 
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HARK!

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Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Let me help you with this reading

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law. No, no, no. Yahshua rebuked putting works of the law over the Law of YHWH.

rather, through the law (That's YHWH's law) we become conscious of our sin.

What is sin? Sin is transgression of the law.

What is righteousness? It's obedience to the law.

You can't very well be obedient to the law; if you are not even conscious that you're transgressing the law. This is a no brainer

Now for new converts, who aren't familiar with the Torah, who have Pharisees, of no faith, coming in and teaching Halakah, that Yahshua rebuked, as the means for salvation; this might take some explaining.

I'm actually amazed that I need to explain this to Christians who have been reading the same book that I have, for all of their lives.
 
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Dkh587

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Thank you for your response. You say the doers of the law will be justified. It seems your requirements to be a doer of the law are extremely low.
For you, believe Paul the Christian was sold as a slave to breaking the law/sin, sin was his master and he was sins slave. He could not do the good he wanted to do but only the evil he did not want to do. That's fine, but how does that tally with righteousness of obeying the law?
Paul said the doers of the law will be justified, not me. I believe Paul - he took a vow to show his adherence to God’s law in Acts 21.
 
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