LDS Why do Mormons really not understand the Cross?

Peter1000

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So are you saying that we have to include the cross on our buildings in order to understand it?

IOW if we started to include the cross on our buildings, then you would agree that we understand the meaning of it?
Jamesone5, will you respond to this question, thank you.
 
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Rescued One

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Understanding the meaning of the cross requires faith in the One True God. Mormons aren't taught the meaning ever. Putting a cross on or in a building doesn't give a Mormon faith.

You and I both know that the Mormon view of the atonement is that it is only an opportunity.

"We all depend on the Savior; none of us can be saved without Him. Christ’s Atonement is infinite and eternal. Forgiveness for our sins comes with conditions. We must repent, and we must be willing to forgive others. . . Remember, heaven is filled with those who have this in common: They are forgiven. And they forgive. Lay your burden at the Savior’s feet. Let go of judgment. Allow Christ’s Atonement to change and heal your heart. Love one another. Forgive one another. The merciful will obtain mercy."
- Dieter F. Uchtdorf

The Enabling Power of the Atonement

...These words indicate that it is through the grace of God that we shall be sustained. As we come to recognize our need for that grace—both for our ultimate salvation and also for its enabling power every day of our lives—we can be uplifted and strengthened.
5 When we feel troubled, unsure, afraid, or discouraged, doing the following can help us access the power of grace and the Atonement:




    • Believe in the Father and in the Son and all They have promised to do for us.



    • Obey God’s commandments and partake of the sacrament regularly to build spiritual strength.
    • Pray, fast, study the scriptures, and worship in the temple to feel God’s love and know of His promises.
    • When we understand the enabling power of the Atonement, we will be changed; we will have access to strength beyond our natural abilities, our weakness can be turned to strength, and we can know that “in the strength of the Lord” we can “do all things” (Alma 20:4).

      Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have the power and the desire to help us overcome our feelings of grief, despair, inadequacy, discouragement, pain, and temptation. They constantly offer us comfort, peace, hope, love, and strength. They can heal our feelings of fear, distrust, anger, self-doubt, sorrow, discouragement, and inadequacy. They can be the best resource we have to help us get through difficult days and trying times. If we but come unto Christ, He will lead us to the Father and a fulness of joy in Their presence.
On the cross, He allowed Himself to die. His body was then laid in a tomb until He was resurrected and became “the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Corinthians 15:20). Through His death and Resurrection, He overcame physical death for us all.

Jesus Christ redeems all people from the effects of the Fall. All people who have ever lived on the earth and who ever will live on the earth will be resurrected and brought back into the presence of God to be judged (see 2 Nephi 2:5–10; Helaman 14:15–17). Through the Savior’s gift of mercy and redeeming grace, we will all receive the gift of immortality and live forever in glorified, resurrected bodies.

Although we are redeemed unconditionally from the universal effects of the Fall, we are accountable for our own sins. But we can be forgiven and cleansed from the stain of sin if we “apply the atoning blood of Christ” (Mosiah 4:2). We must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Atonement of Jesus Christ

Salvation from Sin. To be cleansed from sin through the Savior’s Atonement, an individual must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (see Acts 2:37–38). Those who have been baptized and have received the Holy Ghost through the proper priesthood authority have been conditionally saved from sin. In this sense, salvation is conditional, depending on an individual’s continuing in faithfulness, or enduring to the end in keeping the commandments of God (see 2 Peter 2:20–22).

Individuals cannot be saved in their sins; they cannot receive unconditional salvation simply by declaring a belief in Christ with the understanding that they will inevitably commit sins throughout the rest of their lives (see Alma 11:36–37). However, through the grace of God, all can be saved from their sins (see 2 Nephi 25:23; Helaman 5:10–11) as they repent and follow Jesus Christ.
Salvation


The Lord has said that “there is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

“And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.” (D&C 130:20–21.)

...“For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.

“And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.

“And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory. …” (D&C 88:19–24.)

How blessed are Latter-day Saints to be assured by the revealed word of God that there will be n capriciousness in the world to come; that the rule of law is irrevocable; that every soul will be rewarded according to the law he has obeyed; that all divine law is as immutable as the law of gravity; that it is the same yesterday, today, and forever; that judgment will be mercifully administered, but that it will be administered pursuant to law, and that it will not rob justice. Not only are Latter-day Saints blessed by having this knowledge concerning “the rule of law”; they are twice blessed by having both a knowledge and an understanding of the laws by which they are to be judged.
The Rule of Law
 
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Jamesone5

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Jamesone5, will you respond to this question, thank you.
You have to "walk the walk" in a sense to understand before your "talk the talk" by putting a cross on your church.

But then you would have to lose the notion about Who Christ really is in Mormonism.
 
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He is the way

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You have to "walk the walk" in a sense to understand before your "talk the talk" by putting a cross on your church.

But then you would have to lose the notion about Who Christ really is in Mormonism.
We know who Christ is, God is LOVE.
 
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ViaCrucis

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For mainstream, orthodox Christianity the cross means God's love and forgiveness for the world--a free offering of God's Self to a world that hates and despises Him, even crucifying and cursing Him. The cross is that love gives of itself freely and entirely and holds nothing back. It doesn't make conditions, it doesn't haggle, it is what it is, it is love without limits, mercy without end. And that is why salvation is found in it.

The cross is not about God holding Himself back, keeping part of Himself away, or merely engaging in some kind of mechanical transaction: "I do this, now you do this".

The cross is not the demand that if we don't tie our shoelaces and walk straight then to hell with us.

The cross is not a conditional that if we get our act together and do what we're told then God might love us--you know, if He feels like it.

The cross, again, is God emptied out, throwing Himself away, abandoning Himself in total surrender and love. For who? For all. For the murderers, the rapists, the liars, the cheats, the swindlers, the abusers, the adulterers, the greedy, the malicious, the stiff-necked, the rebellious, the scoundrel, the heckler, the debased, the abused, the the outcast, the unwanted, the unloved, the unlovely, the unmerciful, those who have never known mercy, victims, victimizers, haters, criminals, racists, xenophobes, gays, straights, tall, short, thin, fat, the bad at math, the average, the mediocre, the fool, the philosopher, the arrogant, the proud, the confused, the lost, the forgotten, the miserable, the suffering, the coffee drinkers, the teetotalers, the drunks, the gluttons, the freaks, the geeks, the meek, the unknown, the loveless, the lonely, the dead, the dying, the sick, the well, the outspoken, the unspeaking. You and me.

If one doesn't get the cross, then they don't get Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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He is the way

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For mainstream, orthodox Christianity the cross means God's love and forgiveness for the world--a free offering of God's Self to a world that hates and despises Him, even crucifying and cursing Him. The cross is that love gives of itself freely and entirely and holds nothing back. It doesn't make conditions, it doesn't haggle, it is what it is, it is love without limits, mercy without end. And that is why salvation is found in it.

The cross is not about God holding Himself back, keeping part of Himself away, or merely engaging in some kind of mechanical transaction: "I do this, now you do this".

The cross is not the demand that if we don't tie our shoelaces and walk straight then to hell with us.

The cross is not a conditional that if we get our act together and do what we're told then God might love us--you know, if He feels like it.

The cross, again, is God emptied out, throwing Himself away, abandoning Himself in total surrender and love. For who? For all. For the murderers, the rapists, the liars, the cheats, the swindlers, the abusers, the adulterers, the greedy, the malicious, the stiff-necked, the rebellious, the scoundrel, the heckler, the debased, the abused, the the outcast, the unwanted, the unloved, the unlovely, the unmerciful, those who have never known mercy, victims, victimizers, haters, criminals, racists, xenophobes, gays, straights, tall, short, thin, fat, the bad at math, the average, the mediocre, the fool, the philosopher, the arrogant, the proud, the confused, the lost, the forgotten, the miserable, the suffering, the coffee drinkers, the teetotalers, the drunks, the gluttons, the freaks, the geeks, the meek, the unknown, the loveless, the lonely, the dead, the dying, the sick, the well, the outspoken, the unspeaking. You and me.

If one doesn't get the cross, then they don't get Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran
You said: "For who? For all."

The Bible and Jesus Christ do not agree with this definition of the cross. Not everyone will be forgiven:

(New Testament | Matthew 12:32)

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

He will not show mercy to everyont:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Not everyone has eternal life:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 
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ViaCrucis

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You said: "For who? For all."

The Bible and Jesus Christ do not agree with this definition of the cross. Not everyone will be forgiven:

(New Testament | Matthew 12:32)

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

He will not show mercy to everyont:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Not everyone has eternal life:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Weasel as you try, the truth is there for all to read for themselves, Christ died for all. No exceptions.

"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men." - Romans 5:18

"For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again." - 2 Corinthians 5:14-15

"He is the atonement for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." - 1 John 2:2

"But we see Him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." - Hebrews 2:9

"For then He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation fo the world. But as it is, He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself." - Hebrews 9:26

-CryptoLutheran
 
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He is the way

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Weasel as you try, the truth is there for all to read for themselves, Christ died for all. No exceptions.

"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men." - Romans 5:18

"For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again." - 2 Corinthians 5:14-15

"He is the atonement for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." - 1 John 2:2

"But we see Him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." - Hebrews 2:9

"For then He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation fo the world. But as it is, He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself." - Hebrews 9:26

-CryptoLutheran
There is a reason for repentance, baptism, and the commandments. It seems like you are believing in the part of the Bible you want to believe in and totally ignoring the rest of it. Jesus tried His best to warn people to LOVE Him and keep the commandments. Unfortunately people have twisted the scriptures and don't understand the consequences of their actions. Jesus said:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 19:13 - 20)

13 Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the commandments which you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., in my name;
14 And it is by my almighty power that you have received them;
15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.
20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit.

Every sinner needs to repent:

(New Testament | Matthew 3:1 - 2)

1 IN those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judæa,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Those under grace should not sin:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 16)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 
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He is the way

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Yes He loved us so much that God came down to earth and suffer and die for us---on the Cross.

Hardly a "spiritual brother"
Yes He did suffer for those who repent and turn from sin:
(New Testament | Hebrews 10:26)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
 
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Jamesone5

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Therefore we know it was not the spirit of God, so it must have been another spirit.


Jamesone5 said:


delete


What are you talking about, now?


You referring to you own pretend spirit of God?
 
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Jamesone5

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Yes He did suffer for those who repent and turn from sin:
(New Testament | Hebrews 10:26)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Oh so you get from that verse Christ never died on the Cross? That His Sacrifice never happened?

Talk about a re-write of the Bible.

You got to address that we worship different Christs.
 
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Jamesone5 said:

delete


What are you talking about, now?
You said the spirit told you that only Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith were in the jail cell at Carthage jail. That spirit was wrong because we know that John Taylor and Willard Richards were also in that jail cell.
 
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He is the way

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Oh so you get from that verse Christ never died on the Cross? That His Sacrifice never happened?

Talk about a re-write of the Bible.

You got to address that we worship different Christs.
I don't know where you come up with such weird statements.
 
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Jamesone5

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You said the spirit told you that only Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith were in the jail cell at Carthage jail. That spirit was wrong because we know that John Taylor and Willard Richards were also in that jail cell.
Uh, pay attention to who said what.

You are obviously rambling on about your spirit of God that is another spirit.

What you posted was to a deleted post.
 
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Uh, pay attention to who said what.

You are obviously rambling on about your spirit of God that is another spirit.

What you posted was to a deleted post.
It still said: "What are you talking about, now?" so I answered it.
 
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