LDS How many negative charges has been made about JS character in LDS History? Just, curious.

He is the way

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Really? Trying to murder others, even in self defense, is not something that Jesus taught. When Peter cut off the servants ear, God reprimanded him and healed the man's ear. I've said this before---no martyr ever died defending himself, much less trying to kilo another. I hope I never die with murder in my heart even for those coming to kill me. Not exactly a Stephen, was he?
I am sure that Simon Peter was trying to protect Jesus and would have killed Malchus if he thought it was necessary. Perhaps Malchus was unarmed, not like the mob who were who came fireing their guns and had already killed Hyrum Joseph's brother:

(New Testament | John 18:10 - 11)

10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

If someone was in the process of murdering people and you had the means of shooting back would you? Would you just let them continue to kill people? Many lives have been saved by people fighting back. Malchus was not trying to kill anyone.
 
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He is the way

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The "cat is out of the bag" in a sense that through the Internet people can actually read what Joseph Smith and Brigham Young said---from your Churches own resources. But, you won't find them on places like your Churches website.

No longer does one have to pour through many books like I did before I left.

The big books of the Journal of Discourses [Brigham Young's sermons] I checked out from our library and did an fairly long extensive search and my decision to leave the Church after 40 years was not something I did lightly. He is by the way, the original leader of the SLCity branch of Mormonism.

Mormonism seems to be so innocent and friendly on the outside, but "inside" with your history and all the claims---they are not of God.

So you are fighting a losing battle for those who want to investigate instead of blindly accepting all the Mormon nonsense. Here is good resource.

TOP 25 QUOTES BY BRIGHAM YOUNG (of 267) | A-Z Quotes
I LOVE this quote:

My knowledge is, if you will follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and his Apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, every man and woman will be put in possession of the Holy Ghost. . . . They will know things that are, that will be, and that have been. They will understand things in heaven, things on the earth, and things under the earth, things of time, and things of eternity, according to their several callings and capacities.

Brigham Young
 
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mmksparbud

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I am sure that Simon Peter was trying to protect Jesus and would have killed Malchus if he thought it was necessary. Perhaps Malchus was unarmed, not like the mob who were who came fireing their guns and had already killed Hyrum Joseph's brother:

(New Testament | John 18:10 - 11)

10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

If someone was in the process of murdering people and you had the means of shooting back would you? Would you just let them continue to kill people? Many lives have been saved by people fighting back. Malchus was not trying to kill anyone.

Apparently you do not understand what Jesus was teaching---non violence, even when it is directed at you
"the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"
Your attempt at reading the mind of Malchus, 2000 years later, has been noted.
 
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Jamesone5

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So knowledge and the pursuit of it is somehow wisdom or really the Wisdom of God? This where you get your "I knows" from KNOWLEDGE? And I notice it is all about a individual Mormon {as in MY knowledge], not the God who provides any knowledge or wisdom.

Like I say, the Mormon Church seems to be all nice and fluffy outside, but it you investigate other things Brigham Young said---you would never want to accept this deception.
 
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He is the way

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Apparently you do not understand what Jesus was teaching---non violence, even when it is directed at you
"the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"
Your attempt at reading the mind of Malchus, 2000 years later, has been noted.
David killed lots of people. Samson killed lots of people for God as he was told to do. I do realize that this was under the law of Moses, but it is still wrong to let criminals and murders do as they please. Job eschewed evil and it is our duty to do the same thing. Malchus was there to take Jesus into custody, not to kill Him.
 
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mmksparbud

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David killed lots of people. Samson killed lots of people for God as he was told to do. I do realize that this was under the law of Moses, but it is still wrong to let criminals and murders do as they please. Job eschewed evil and it is our duty to do the same thing. Malchus was there to take Jesus into custody, not to kill Him.

Yes---and Peter was wrong for his action. And Jesus did not approve.
 
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mmksparbud

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"If you want to know what to do with a thief that you may find stealing, I say kill him on the spot, and never suffer him to commit another iniquity. I will prove by my works whether I can mete out justice to such persons, or not. I would consider it just as much my duty to do that, as to baptize a man for the remission of his sins." ~ Brigham Young
 
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He is the way

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"If you want to know what to do with a thief that you may find stealing, I say kill him on the spot, and never suffer him to commit another iniquity. I will prove by my works whether I can mete out justice to such persons, or not. I would consider it just as much my duty to do that, as to baptize a man for the remission of his sins." ~ Brigham Young
Whether he said this or not is not known:

The Journal of Discourses is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is a compilation of sermons and other materials from the early years of the Church, which were transcribed and then published. It included some doctrinal instruction but also practical teaching, some of which is speculative in nature and some of which is only of historical interest.

The content of the Journal of Discourses was transcribed, sometimes inaccurately, and published between 1854 and 1886 in England. The compilation contains some statements of doctrine as well as other materials of interest to Latter-day Saints who lived far from the center of the Church, including speeches given for a variety of occasions, funeral addresses, reports from returning missionaries, prayers, and the proceedings of a trial. The Journal of Discourses was produced under the guidance of those who transcribed the materials, including George D. Watt, David W. Evans, and George W. Gibbs.

Skilled in the use of shorthand, George D. Watt had transcribed many conferences and sermons for the Deseret News. He received little pay for his work. Since the Deseret News was not generally available outside of the United States, Watt proposed to Brigham Young the idea of publishing these materials on a subscription basis. Such a plan would make the materials available to more Saints and allow Watt to earn a living with his work. President Brigham Young supported the plan, and a letter from the First Presidency was included in the first volume encouraging Church members to cooperate in the “purchase and sale” of the journal.

Questions have been raised about the accuracy of some transcriptions. Modern technology and processes were not available for verifying the accuracy of transcriptions, and some significant mistakes have been documented. The Journal of Discourses includes interesting and insightful teachings by early Church leaders; however, by itself it is not an authoritative source of Church doctrine.

From: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/journal-of-discourses?ang=eng
 
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mmksparbud

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Whether he said this or not is not known:

The Journal of Discourses is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is a compilation of sermons and other materials from the early years of the Church, which were transcribed and then published. It included some doctrinal instruction but also practical teaching, some of which is speculative in nature and some of which is only of historical interest.

The content of the Journal of Discourses was transcribed, sometimes inaccurately, and published between 1854 and 1886 in England. The compilation contains some statements of doctrine as well as other materials of interest to Latter-day Saints who lived far from the center of the Church, including speeches given for a variety of occasions, funeral addresses, reports from returning missionaries, prayers, and the proceedings of a trial. The Journal of Discourses was produced under the guidance of those who transcribed the materials, including George D. Watt, David W. Evans, and George W. Gibbs.

Skilled in the use of shorthand, George D. Watt had transcribed many conferences and sermons for the Deseret News. He received little pay for his work. Since the Deseret News was not generally available outside of the United States, Watt proposed to Brigham Young the idea of publishing these materials on a subscription basis. Such a plan would make the materials available to more Saints and allow Watt to earn a living with his work. President Brigham Young supported the plan, and a letter from the First Presidency was included in the first volume encouraging Church members to cooperate in the “purchase and sale” of the journal.

Questions have been raised about the accuracy of some transcriptions. Modern technology and processes were not available for verifying the accuracy of transcriptions, and some significant mistakes have been documented. The Journal of Discourses includes interesting and insightful teachings by early Church leaders; however, by itself it is not an authoritative source of Church doctrine.

From: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/journal-of-discourses?ang=eng


Yah, right, heard all that before. Over and over.
 
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mmksparbud

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And in neither case were there others that were in danger of being killed.

And that makes what difference? Stephen didn't pick up stones and sling them back to defend himself---no martyr did.
 
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Basically, Joseph snapped off the shots in the hopes that it would panic the mob and send them scurrying.

Basically, JS was an idiot for doing so. A couple shots fired to scare away a couple hundred angry men?? Puh-lease! Where was your prophet's god in all this?
 
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BigDaddy4

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I am sure that Simon Peter was trying to protect Jesus and would have killed Malchus if he thought it was necessary. Perhaps Malchus was unarmed, not like the mob who were who came fireing their guns and had already killed Hyrum Joseph's brother:

(New Testament | John 18:10 - 11)

10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

If someone was in the process of murdering people and you had the means of shooting back would you? Would you just let them continue to kill people? Many lives have been saved by people fighting back. Malchus was not trying to kill anyone.
Did your prophet learn anything from Jesus' admonishment of Peter for doing this? How does this wrong act by Peter justify the rightness of JS? It doesn't.
 
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He is the way

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Did your prophet learn anything from Jesus' admonishment of Peter for doing this? How does this wrong act by Peter justify the rightness of JS? It doesn't.
I suspect you did not read my posts. Jesus was not being killed at the time. Joseph Smith's brother Hyrum was being killed and the others were in danger of being killed. John Taylor was shot 4 times and Willard Richards was also there. It was a very different situation.
 
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Yah, right, heard all that before. Over and over.
The quote was taken out of context anyway. After that he is quoted as saying:

"That is what I expect I shall do, though never, in the days of my life, have I hurt a man with the palm of my hand. I never have hurt any person any other way except with this unruly member, my tongue. Notwithstanding this, if I caught a man stealing on my premises I should be very apt to send him straight home, and that is what I wish every man to do, to put a stop to that abominable practice in the midst of this people."
 
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