The Restitution Of All Things

FineLinen · Mar 23, 2020

#1 -Rom. 11:36

"From Him everything comes, through Him everything exists and in Him everything ends."

Ta pavnte= the all things.

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming. From Him ta pavnte comes, through Him ta pavnte exists, and in Him ta pavnte ends.

#2. -Eph. 1:-

"He has made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you too, who in Him were made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will."

The all things in the heavens, the all things in the earth, and you who once were dead in trespasses and sins. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one, the ta pavnte en/in Christ.

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.

#3 -Col. 1:20

"God purposed through Him to reconcile the universe to Himself, making peace through His blood...to reconcile to Himself through Him, I say, things on earth and things in heaven. And you..."

The all things (the ta pavnte) in the heavens, the all things (the ta pavnte) in the earth, and you who once were dead in trespasses and sins. God has purposed to reconcile the universe (the ta pavnte) to Himself. The ta pavnte/ the all, encompasses the ta pavnte on the earth and the ta pavnte in the heavens. The ta pavnte= the all, the whole enchilada.

Ta pavnte = in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the universe. Of everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.

FineLinen · Mar 24, 2020

Please welcome William Law

An Address to the Clergy: Authentic Version. William Law - 1761

150 Reasons

150 Reasons For Believing In The Final Salvation Of All Mankind

FineLinen · Mar 25, 2020

Please welcome my friend & translator of the Jonathan Mitchell Translation of the koine Greek.

Jonathan's Writings - Jonathan Mitchell's New Testament Translation - GOD'S MESSAGE OF GOODNESS, EASE AND WELL-BEING

The Greater Emmanuel Website

Greater Emmanuel International Ministries

Robertson N.T. Word Pictures

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament on StudyLight.org

Young's Concordance

Matthew 25 - YLT Bible - Bible Study Tools

Saviour Of All Articles

New Saviour of All Main Page

George Hawtin

The Restitution of All Things By George Hawtin

"God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially those that believe. Command and teach these things."

FineLinen · Mar 25, 2020

The Feet Ministry –Don Bruce-

“The mission of Christ was to destroy the enemy and to set the prisoners free.

Now this word ‘destroy’ does not mean to annihilate. In the Greek it means to make of no effect. When Christ took the keys from the prison keeper he, Satan, lost all power and authority. Christ made his office of no effect (Heb. 2:14&15).

While prophets of doom forecast calamity and destruction, the mind of Christ speaks and lights our world with the vision of universal restoration and reconciliation.

Paul told of a great victory where every knee would bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Paul did not say that only a small number will bow and confess, but he said every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess. And no man can call Jesus Lord but by the Holy Spirit. What a glorious day that will be when every foot steps forth in the river of life up to the ankle, and from the ankle up to the knee.

Every knee shall bow!

We are not an accident! We are not a mistake! No one has been overlooked by the Creator. All of us are His jewels, the apple of His eye, His purpose, reason and will.

When we see God in all things, and realize that all things are in His hands for the eventual good of everyone, then our lives will flow as peacefully as a river.”

Der Alte · Mar 25, 2020

FineLinen said:
...

FineLinen said:
Paul told of a great victory where every knee would bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Paul did not say that only a small number will bow and confess, but he said every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess. And no man can call Jesus Lord but by the Holy Spirit. What a glorious day that will be when every foot steps forth in the river of life up to the ankle, and from the ankle up to the knee.
Every knee shall bow!

Yes, indeed every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. The faithful believers in love, obedience and faith.
The word of God says every knee will bow. It must be important because it is repeated six times.

1. Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
2. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
3. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
4. Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
5. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
6. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

But the "fearful, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters, liars" etc. who denied God and Christ all their lives will be forced to their knees and forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord. This is another important point it is recorded ten times in scripture

1. Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
3. Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
4. Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
5. Luke 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
6. Acts of the apostles 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
7. Acts of the apostles 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
8. Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
9. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10. Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

What does “make your enemies your footstool” mean? Joshua tells us in Chap 10.

Joshua 10:17
(17) And it was told Joshua, saying, The five kings are found hid in a cave at Makkedah.
Joshua 10:22-24
22 Then said Joshua, Open the mouth of the cave, and bring out those five kings unto me out of the cave.
23 And they did so, and brought forth those five kings unto him out of the cave, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon.
24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.

What happened to the enemies of Joshua after they were made his footstool? They did not become part of God's chosen people.

FineLinen · Mar 25, 2020

FIFTEEN QUESTIONS FOR SOBER THOUGHT

1 If God will have all men to be saved, and if most men are lost, then how can God be supreme (1 Tim.2:3,4)?

2 If Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world, did He die in vain for the lost (1 John 2:2)?

3 If God is going to reconcile the universe through Christ, how can some be tormented forever (Col. 1:20)?

4 How can God, in Christ, gather all things together as one while billions remain eternally estranged (Eph.1:10)?

5 If all die in Adam, and a few are made alive in Christ, how can grace much more abound than sin (Rom. 5:20)?

6 If all men are condemned by Adam’s offense, why are not all justified by the one just award (Rom. 5:18)?

7 If all die in Adam, why shall not all be made alive in Christ (1 Cor. 15:22)?

8 How can every knee bow confessing Christ Lord, to God’s glory, unless reconciled (Phil. 2:10,11)?

9 If Christ only hath immortality, how can any of the dead be alive now (1 Tim. 6:14-16; 1 Cor. 15:53, 54)?

10 If the wicked go to hell as soon as they die, why are they raised and judged later (Rev. 20:11-15)?

11 Since the lake of fire is the second death, what happens to the wicked when death is destroyed (1 Cor.15:26)?

12 If “forever” means “eternity” what does “forever and ever” mean?

13 If God is Love and has all power, will He not find away to save all (1 Tim. 4:9-11)?

14 If Christ is to reign for ever and ever, what does it mean that He will abdicate His throne (Rev. 11:15; 1 Cor. 15:24)?

15 Will God ever actually become All in all (1 Cor.15:28)? -V.E. Jacobson-

Shrewd Manager · Mar 26, 2020

Der Alter said:
What happened to the enemies of Joshua after they were made his footstool? They did not become part of God's chosen people.

You love the '5 kings' story der Alter. But what if it's just an OT shadow of things to come? Because we learn in the eschaton, the time when God will renew, restore and renovate all things, that the kings of the earth bring their honour and glory into the Holy City (Rev 21:24). Are they forced to do so? I certainly hope not, that would make it a Roman triumph for God, and He is not pagan. His victory is far greater, as those kings voluntarily submit to He who is above all.

Der Alte · Mar 26, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
You love the '5 kings' story der Alter. But what if it's just an OT shadow of things to come? Because we learn in the eschaton, the time when God will renew, restore and renovate all things, that the kings of the earth bring their honour and glory into the Holy City (Rev 21:24). Are they forced to do so? I certainly hope not, that would make it a Roman triumph for God, and He is not pagan. His victory is far greater, as those kings voluntarily submit to He who is above all.

IOW your only response to my post is one snide comment "what if it's just." Joshua was a type of Christ. He even had the same name. Joshua 10 was a foreshadowing of Christ's defeat of His enemies. In the Targum Ps 110:1 reads "The Lord said to His word." instead of "The Lord said to my Lord."

Der Alte · Mar 26, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
...Because we learn in the eschaton, the time when God will renew, restore and renovate all things, that the kings of the earth bring their honour and glory into the Holy City (Rev 21:24). Are they forced to do so? I certainly hope not, that would make it a Roman triumph for God, and He is not pagan. His victory is far greater, as those kings voluntarily submit to He who is above all.

But let us read further.

Revelation 22:11 Let the one who does what is evil continue to do what is evil. Let the filthy person continue to be filthy. Let the righteous person continue to do what is right. And let the holy person continue to be holy."
...
Revelation 22:15 Outside are dogs, sorcerers, immoral people, murderers, idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
...
Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book.
...
Revelation 22:19 If anyone takes away any words from the book of this prophecy, God will take away his portion of the tree of life and the holy city that are described in this book.

Shrewd Manager · Mar 26, 2020

Der Alter said:
IOW your only response to my post is one snide comment "what if it's just."

Not sure why a reasonable speculation based on hope and faith is considered snide der Alter, but perhaps you're a better judge of these kind of things than me.

Der Alter said:
Joshua was a type of Christ. He even had the same name. Joshua 10 was a foreshadowing of Christ's defeat of His enemies.

Yes, he certainly was in many respects. But his M.O. was O.T.-style, whereas Jesus brought us grace and truth. So we have to update our thinking to the new and improved version, in fact the ultimate version.

Der Alter said:
In the Targum Ps 110:1 reads "The Lord said to His word." instead of "The Lord said to my Lord."

Interesting. To be frank, the translation of the tetragrammaton for 'Lord' annoys the hell out of me, so it's good to see some rollback.

Der Alter said:
Revelation 22:11 Let the one who does what is evil continue to do what is evil. Let the filthy person continue to be filthy. Let the righteous person continue to do what is right. And let the holy person continue to be holy."
...
Revelation 22:15 Outside are dogs, sorcerers, immoral people, murderers, idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
...

So you're saying that the kings of the earth are not evil or filthy (as they come into the City in 21:24)? All good, then they must have been cleansed somehow. Do you ever think like an investigator, der Alter? It's the glory of God to conceal a thing, and the glory of kings to search it out (Pro 25:2). Unless you're one of Joshua's 5 kings, I guess lol.

Der Alter said:
Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book.
...
Revelation 22:19 If anyone takes away any words from the book of this prophecy, God will take away his portion of the tree of life and the holy city that are described in this book.

Perhaps I'm guilty of adding faith and hope to 'connect the dots' for a universal beneficial outcome, but then if it's the faith and hope of Christ, I haven't added anything that wasn't already there in the Spirit, now have I?

On the other hand, to read it devoid of hope, faith and love, to deny the will or ability of God to save all, is that not to detract from the words of the prophecy, Mr der Alter, hmm?

Der Alte · Mar 27, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
Yes, he certainly was in many respects. But his M.O. was O.T.-style, whereas Jesus brought us grace and truth. So we have to update our thinking to the new and improved version, in fact the ultimate version.

I partially agree but note how many times "shall make your enemies your footstool" occurs and not one single verse says those "footstools" will become righteous believers, ever.

Interesting. To be frank, the translation of the tetragrammaton for 'Lord' annoys the hell out of me, so it's good to see some rollback.

No really relevant, you do know why the Jews chose to do that don't you? Deuteronomy 5:11

So you're saying that the kings of the earth are not evil or filthy (as they come into the City in 21:24)? All good, then they must have been cleansed somehow. Do you ever think like an investigator, der Alter? It's the glory of God to conceal a thing, and the glory of kings to search it out (Pro 25:2). Unless you're one of Joshua's 5 kings, I guess lol.

This requires no investigative skills although I acquitred some at Glynco GA. Were you to actually read your proof text you would know the answer. But before we do that let’s see what happened to the evil kings of the earth.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Revelation 17:14 These [evil kings vs. 12] shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

One group of evil kings overcome by the lamb.

Revelation 19:19-21
19. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

After the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, the remnant, everything evil remaining, including kings, were slain.
Now we come to your proof text which you evidently imagine means evil kings are suddenly, magically made righteous as they walk through the gates of the great city.

Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

The nations which are saved and their kings, which are also saved, walk into the city. All the evil kings had been destroyed Rev 17:14 and Rev 21

Perhaps I'm guilty of adding faith and hope to 'connect the dots' for a universal beneficial outcome, but then if it's the faith and hope of Christ, I haven't added anything that wasn't already there in the Spirit, now have I?On the other hand, to read it devoid of hope, faith and love, to deny the will or ability of God to save all, is that not to detract from the words of the prophecy, Mr der Alter, hmm?

What does Isaiah say about hope after death?

John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psalms 88:10-11
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Shrewd Manager · Mar 27, 2020

Der Alter said:
I partially agree but note how many times "shall make your enemies your footstool" occurs and not one single verse says those "footstools" will become righteous believers, ever.

How does the King of kings make his enemies his footstools? By force, compunction, coercion? By no means! By self-sacrificial salvific grace. 'Smite them not', sayeth Elisha to the King of Israel in 2 Kings 6:22. Now was Elisha a type of Christ? I'll give you a clue: Gabriel spills the beans in Lk 1:17 when he says of John the Baptist 'And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah...' Time to use the grey matter again der Alter. God wins His enemies over.

Der Alter said:
No really relevant, you do know why the Jews chose to do that don't you? Deuteronomy 5:11

The Pharisees built fences, but Jesus was a carpenter.

Der Alter said:
21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.After the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, the remnant, everything evil remaining, including kings, were slain.

Let me get this straight der Alter: you think the 'plain sense' of 'slain with a sword from the mouth' is the right way to read this passage? So the King of Kings is a sword-spitter now. Ok.

Der Alter said:
The nations which are saved and their kings, which are also saved, walk into the city. All the evil kings had been destroyed Rev 17:14 and Rev 21

Ah, the 'good kings and good nations' hypothesis. Perhaps you can find me some scripture to support this position. I always thought the nations were deemed evil per se by dint of the fact they were pagan.

Sorry to put a fly in your ointment there, but it is their evil nature that has been destroyed, and they have turned and been transformed by grace.

Der Alter said:
What does Isaiah say about hope after death?

In that passage he's saying that we've put the false idols behind us.

O LORD our God, other lords besides You have had dominion, but Your name alone do we confess. (Is 26:13)

Der Alte · Mar 27, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
How does the King of kings make his enemies his footstools? By force, compunction, coercion? By no means! By self-sacrificial salvific grace. 'Smite them not', sayeth Elisha to the King of Israel in 2 Kings 6:22. Now was Elisha a type of Christ? I'll give you a clue: Gabriel spills the beans in Lk 1:17 when he says of John the Baptist 'And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah...' Time to use the grey matter again der Alter. God wins His enemies over.

Neither Gabriel nor John nor any other verse or passage changes the several verses where God, not the King of kings, says "I, God, will make your enemies your footstool."

The Pharisees built fences, but Jesus was a carpenter.

Irrelevant does not refute anything I said.

Let me get this straight der Alter: you think the 'plain sense' of 'slain with a sword from the mouth' is the right way to read this passage? So the King of Kings is a sword-spitter now. Ok.

I thought we were having a rational discussion. I guess I was wrong. If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense. Nobody has liberty to make anything figurative just to support their heterodox assumptions/presuppositions.

Ah, the 'good kings and good nations' hypothesis. Perhaps you can find me some scripture to support this position. I always thought the nations were deemed evil per se by dint of the fact they were pagan.

Even after I pointed it out to you you still did not read your proof text. If you had you would have seen the words "the nations of them which are saved ... and the kings of the earth" Two groups of evil kings had already been destroyed. In fact it said "the remnant" which means "everything remaining" were slain.

Sorry to put a fly in your ointment there, but it is their evil nature that has been destroyed, and they have turned and been transformed by grace.
In that passage he's saying that we've put the false idols behind us.

Ain't no fly, only your imagination. Prove it from scripture? Yet another example of heterodox cop-out scripture twisting. When scripture does not say what you want it to presto-chango make it SPAM-Fig, symbolic, poetic, allegory, metaphor, figurative anything but literal. If the plain sense makes good sense, it is nonsense to seek any other sense,
ETA: I backed up everything I said with scripture the problem is you did not read. If you choose to ignore everything I say to further your agenda nobody can help you.

FineLinen · Mar 27, 2020

Nuts for Calvinists to crack

“Although a Calvinist myself for more than thirty years, the scriptures declaring God’s infinite love, and the plain teachings of Jesus my Lord on the subject of love, mercy and truth, finally sank my theological ship. This left me searching for the truth as it is in Jesus. Finally I was convinced by the overwhelming number of Scriptures that our great God and Heavenly Father truly does, without partiality, love the whole world, and He will in His own time and in His own way finally reconcile all men unto Himself.

Arminianism and Calvinism both represent each other as the method for God’s work in salvation, and both vigorously reject the final reconciliation of all men. -C.R. Bierbower

The Purpose Of God

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/...rposeOfGod.htm

The Triumph Of Love

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/...umphOfLove.htm

"The current Evangelical Theology involves in its system belief in the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and permanence of evil. That though there was a time in the history of the universe when sin in any shape or form did not exist, when no cry of pain or sense of guilt darkened the all-extensive bliss and holiness of creation, yet since sin has once effected an entrance into such a scene, it has come in never to go out again, indestructible, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Absolute happiness and sinlessness have forever vanished like the phantom of a dream. The ‘eternal state’ is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, eternally sinful, vile and morally hideous. It pictures the “final perfection” yet to be attained as having room for a vast cesspool of immoral and degraded beings, continually existing in opposition to God."

~Vladimir Gelesnoff ~

Der Alte · Mar 27, 2020

Unfortunately neither C.R. Bierbower nor Vladimir Gelesnoff are scripture.
When President Lincoln was criticized for how he was conducting the civil war he replied.

I do the very best I know how - the very best I can; and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out all right, what's said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right would make no difference.”

You can quote a 100 of your chosen UR "experts" with pages of adjectives and superlatives and anything they say is meaningless without credible verifiable, historical, grammatical, lexical evidence. And like they used to say in my hometown I ain't never seen none.

FineLinen · Mar 28, 2020

“The traditional interpretation of an everlasting hell fire for sinners is as wrong and as senseless as believing that a three dollar bill is legal tender.

Ultimate salvation is something that has been secured by Christ for all mankind without the works of man (either good or bad) being involved in the issue.

Everyone will finally be saved and brought to a full knowledge of the truth of God. All humans will finally be forgiven for their sins and they will become reconciled to God. All things in the heavens, on earth and under the earth (the angels who are kept in chains in the bowels of the earth) will one day proclaim the Lordship of Christ to the glory of God the Father.

But it will not only be all humans who are reconciled to God (now that God has reconciled Himself to mankind). The reconciliation will reach out to embrace all the hostile powers which have been out of harmony with God over the centuries. There is prophesied, according to Paul, a full reconciliation between all the antagonistic beings throughout the universe. Even they will be reconciled amongst themselves, Between themselves and mankind, and between themselves and God the Father (Col. 1:20). All grievances, both divine and human, are disposed of through the life and death of Christ our Saviour. Peace has been, or will be established between all hostile parties throughout the universe. – Ernest L. Martin Phd-

The Greek of the New Testament shows that all punishment is age-lasting, not forever.

Shrewd Manager · Mar 28, 2020

Der Alter said:
Neither Gabriel nor John nor any other verse or passage changes the several verses where God, not the King of kings, says "I, God, will make your enemies your footstool."

Are you now proposing that we don't see the Father in the Son, der Alter?

Der Alter said:
Irrelevant does not refute anything I said.

I almost missed it as well.

Der Alter said:
I thought we were having a rational discussion. I guess I was wrong. If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense. Nobody has liberty to make anything figurative just to support their heterodox assumptions/presuppositions.

So the plain sense which yields up a sword spitting saviour makes good sense to you?

Der Alter said:
Even after I pointed it out to you you still did not read your proof text. If you had you would have seen the words "the nations of them which are saved ... and the kings of the earth" Two groups of evil kings had already been destroyed. In fact it said "the remnant" which means "everything remaining" were slain.

Oh, now we're going to pick a different manuscript? Is that your 'fallback position' lol? There's no 'of them which are saved' in my Bible der Alter.
Revelation 21:24 By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.

Ellicott's commentary and the Pulpit Commentary both expressly reject the 'of them which are saved'. Talk about adding to the words of the scroll!

Der Alter said:
Ain't no fly, only your imagination. Prove it from scripture? Yet another example of heterodox cop-out scripture twisting. When scripture does not say what you want it to presto-chango make it SPAM-Fig, symbolic, poetic, allegory, metaphor, figurative anything but literal. If the plain sense makes good sense, it is nonsense to seek any other sense,
ETA: I backed up everything I said with scripture the problem is you did not read. If you choose to ignore everything I say to further your agenda nobody can help you.

Jesus can help us both der Alter. Now, if you would, grace me with your encyclopedic knowledge of scripture to reveal the tradition of 'good kings' and evil kings' amongst the nations. To reject God is to choose sin, and that's what foreign 'kings of the earth' do. But they're still sons of Adam, so they get covered by the Last Adam. Take big bad Nebuchanezzar's conversion, for instance, who would have thought?

FineLinen · Mar 28, 2020

“The terms translated ‘forever’ and ‘everlasting’ and ‘never’ are human perversions which could never have deceived us if they had been consistently rendered. They denote definite divisions of time called ages or eons. All together they form a distinct portion of time called eonian times.

Destruction, like salvation, is eonian.

It is not the end or aim of God. God destroys nothing that He will not restore. He loses nothing that will not return to Him laden with praise and glory for Himself.

Destruction is a passing process, not a finished goal. Through God it will work out the welfare of all of His creatures and the glory of our Savior. -A.E. Knoch-

Many of you have been living in your houses but now is the time to transform your house into a peaceful home.

After decluttering your house the next most important thing to do is to declutter your mind. Instead of spending more time on Corona news around the world, withdraw from all news sources and stop strengthening the energy of the dreadful virus by not thinking or talking about it.

Find more time to be with yourself. Sit and watch your mind in play. Allow all the fears and negative emotions to surface. Witness, witness, witness. Let them get released from your subconscious mind. No effort needed to declutter mind. Just witness and the unwanted will be released creating space for health and wellness. Pray for the suffering humanity from your quiet heart.

Der Alte · Mar 28, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
Are you now proposing that we don't see the Father in the Son, der Alter?

Are you even reading my posts? Do you need glasses? I never said anything which could be construed as saying or implying that.

So the plain sense which yields up a sword spitting saviour makes good sense to you?

What part of this do you not understand? If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense. If that is too complicated for you I will try to make it simpler. Try reading Hebrews 4:12 maybe that will help.

Oh, now we're going to pick a different manuscript? Is that your 'fallback position' lol? There's no 'of them which are saved' in my Bible der Alter.

Revelation 21:24 By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.
Ellicott's commentary and the Pulpit Commentary both expressly reject the 'of them which are saved'. Talk about adding to the words of the scroll!

RUBBISH! I quoted from the KJV based on TR. The fact some MS omit "of them who are saved" does not prove it is not authentic.
Have you ever actually read my post? Did I not quote two passages prior to Rev 21:24 which stated nations and kings which opposed the lamb were destroyed? In fact one passage even specified that the remnant, everything remaining, were destroyed. See Revelation 17:24, Revelation 19:21 and Revelation 20:9 which state that evil kings and nations were destroyed., NOT saved.
If all the kings and nations which opposed God were destroyed in these 3 passages, who is left?
What kind of "glory" could pagan kings bring into the city of God?

Jesus can help us both der Alter. Now, if you would, grace me with your encyclopedic knowledge of scripture to reveal the tradition of 'good kings' and evil kings' amongst the nations. To reject God is to choose sin, and that's what foreign 'kings of the earth' do. But they're still sons of Adam, so they get covered by the Last Adam. Take big bad Nebuchanezzar's conversion, for instance, who would have thought?

I have now explained it to you three times and you still refuse to understand. I am not the one who needs help. When did Nebuchadnezzar's conversion happen, after he died or while he was still living? You still do not have even one verse which states unequivocally that the unrighteous will be saved after death.

Shrewd Manager · Mar 28, 2020

Der Alter said:
Are you even reading my posts? Do you need glasses? I never said anything which could be construed as saying or implying that.

Forgive me for misunderstanding your garbled post der Alter.

Der Alter said:
What part of this do you not understand? If the plain sense makes good sense it is nonsense to seek any other sense.

What is the plain sense of 'slain with the sword from his mouth'?

Der Alter said:
Did I not quote two passages prior to Rev 21:24 which stated nations and kings which opposed the lamb were destroyed?

By the good ol' mouth-sword?

Der Alter said:
What kind of "glory" could pagan kings bring into the city of God?

That's a good question. I'd say the glory of their civilisation and science, eg Roman engineering and the like. Not suggesting the City of God needs plumbing though lol.

Der Alter said:
You still do not have even one verse which states unequivocally that the unrighteous will be saved after death.

There's heaps, you just don't want to accept the 'plain sense' of them eg as all died in Adam, all are made alive in Christ. That includes Paul's predecessors.

The Restitution Of All Things

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This is me about 1 yr. old.

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Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

This is me about 1 yr. old.

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Senior Veteran

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Senior Veteran

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Senior Veteran

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

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