The Ghastly Eternal Torment Dogma

FineLinen · Mar 27, 2020

Isaiah 26:9 =

What Does Isaiah 26:9 Mean? "My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you."

"The path of right-living people is level.
The Leveler evens the road for the right-living.
We’re in no hurry, God. We’re content to linger
in the path sign-posted with your decisions.
Who you are and what you’ve done
are all we’ll ever want.
Through the night my soul longs for you.
Deep from within me my spirit reaches out to you.
When your decisions are on public display,
everyone learns how to live right.
If the wicked are shown grace,
they don’t seem to get it.
In the land of right living, they persist in wrong living,
blind to the splendor of God." -MSG-

Quietus · Mar 30, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
If damnationism is not an outright pagan doctrine, it certainly is deceptively similar in character:

wrathful deity requiring placation - check.

instils terror of afterlife torment to produce compliance - check.

renders the deity distant and unknown, arbitrary and capricious - check.

If it quacks and walks like a duck, well could it be a church doctor with piles?

And this from part 2 of the above article:

“In addition, Satan – that liar of old – put in man’s mind that God is harsh, evil, to be feared, and above all, intent upon doing evil to man in His desire for revenge for our sins”

I know I’m still a relatively noob Christian, but every time I crack open to a random spot in the Old Testament, that’s all I tend to see - is declarations by God that He will put some sort of curse or destruction upon Israel or someone else for their wrong deeds. I know that Israel was constantly disobedient, but still. The character of God still seems harsh sometimes. Perhaps I’m relying too much upon my own understanding or perceptions of things, though. I’m no theologian.

Lazarus Short · Mar 30, 2020

The Quiet In Christ said:
And this from part 2 of the above article:

“In addition, Satan – that liar of old – put in man’s mind that God is harsh, evil, to be feared, and above all, intent upon doing evil to man in His desire for revenge for our sins”

I know I’m still a relatively noob Christian, but every time I crack open to a random spot in the Old Testament, that’s all I tend to see - is declarations by God that He will put some sort of curse or destruction upon Israel or someone else for their wrong deeds. I know that Israel was constantly disobedient, but still. The character of God still seems harsh sometimes. Perhaps I’m relying too much upon my own understanding or perceptions of things, though. I’m no theologian.

I know what you mean, and I once told my father that, as the old testament came to a close and especially when the new testament began, it was as if God came around the corner and invited everyone out for an ice cream...at least compared to the former thunderings and threatenings.

mmksparbud · Mar 30, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
I know what you mean, and I once told my father that, as the old testament came to a close and especially when the new testament began, it was as if God came around the corner and invited everyone out for an ice cream...at least compared to the former thunderings and threatenings.

Never the Father!

Joh_5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

FineLinen · Mar 31, 2020

Samuel Richardson wrote:

“The doctrine of endless hell torments hath caused many to murder themselves, taking away their own lives by poison, stabbing, drowning, hanging, strangling, and shooting themselves, casting themselves out of windows, and from high places, to break their necks and by other kinds of death, that they might not live to increase their sin, and increase their torments in hell.”

This is what Thomas Whittemore the editor, wrote at the bottom of the page nearly 200 years later in 1833:

“Here we see the same dreadful effects attended the doctrine of endless misery nearly 200 years ago which attend it now. It was then the cause of anxiety, despair, and suicide, as we suppose it always was before, where fully believed, and as we know it has been of late years. Let posterity know, that within the last ten years, there have been a large number of suicides, which must be attributed to the doctrine of endless torment. That doctrine makes men melancholy; it drives them to despair; they know not what to do; and they sever the brittle thread, fathers and mothers, in repeated instances in the United States, have murdered their children, lest they should grow up, and commit sin, and be damned. Can a doctrine which produces such dreadful consequences be the doctrine of God?”

Lazarus Short · Mar 31, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Never the Father!

Joh_5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

I was speaking of the husband of my mother.

Der Alte · Mar 31, 2020

FineLinen said:
...

Samuel Richardson wrote:
“The doctrine of endless hell torments hath caused many to murder themselves, taking away their own lives by poison, stabbing, drowning, hanging, strangling, and shooting themselves, casting themselves out of windows, and from high places, to break their necks and by other kinds of death, that they might not live to increase their sin, and increase their torments in hell.”
This is what Thomas Whittemore the editor, wrote at the bottom of the page nearly 200 years later in 1833:
“Here we see the same dreadful effects attended the doctrine of endless misery nearly 200 years ago which attend it now. It was then the cause of anxiety, despair, and suicide, as we suppose it always was before, where fully believed, and as we know it has been of late years. Let posterity know, that within the last ten years, there have been a large number of suicides, which must be attributed [ASSUMPTION!] to the doctrine of endless torment. That doctrine makes men melancholy; it drives them to despair; they know not what to do; and they sever the brittle thread, fathers and mothers, in repeated instances in the United States, have murdered their children, lest they should grow up, and commit sin, and be damned. Can a doctrine which produces such dreadful consequences be the doctrine of God?”

...

This it total rubbish. Just because some deluded person writes all this that does not make it true. There is no, zero, none credible, verifiable, historical evidence that any of this was ever caused by fear of hell.

FineLinen · Apr 8, 2020

“Lord, did you really say in Your word what I used to believe You said?

Is it actually o.k. with You that people will spend eternity in hell? No, no, a thousand times no!

You do not say that - and I am so relieved. Because had You said that, it would follow that I would have to think of You as worse than a murderer, that is, as a tormentor.

If a person is murdered at least the possibility of torture and torment is past. But if I were to believe that You have prepared an eternal hell for some, I would also have to believe that You can be happy while you are tormenting people eternally.” -Aline Talsma-

Der Alte · Apr 8, 2020

FineLinen said:
“Lord, did you really say in Your word what I used to believe You said?Is it actually o.k. with You that people will spend eternity in hell? No, no, a thousand times no!You do not say that - and I am so relieved. Because had You said that, it would follow that I would have to think of You as worse than a murderer, that is, as a tormentor.If a person is murdered at least the possibility of torture and torment is past. But if I were to believe that You have prepared an eternal hell for some, I would also have to believe that You can be happy while you are tormenting people eternally.” -Aline Talsma-

UR-ites argue that in Matt 25:46 "aionios" does not mean "eternal" and "kolasis" does not mean "punishment" as they are translated in the KJV.
The language of the Eastern Orthodox Greek church has always been Greek. Who more than they should know the meaning of Greek words in the NT.

THE EASTERN / GREEK ORTHODOX BIBI.E EOB) — NEW TESTAMENT 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them. saying ‘Amen. I tell you: a much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιωνιον/kolasin aionion] but the righteous into eternal 1ife.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.

1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/ton aionon] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.

https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf

Game. Set. Match! Sayonara. Das vedonya, Auf Wieder Sehen.

FineLinen · Apr 12, 2020

Today as we celebrate our Lord Jesus Christ & His awesome victory over death & hell, His words are sounding in my ears....

"Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

These words of reconciliation have been replaced with> > >

They have had their chance, do not forgive them, for they know exactly what they do.

Too bad, so sad, you merit unending torment with zero reprieve.

Shrewd Manager · Apr 12, 2020

FineLinen said:
"Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

FineLinen said:
Too bad, so sad, you merit unending torment with zero reprieve.

It may not be prudent for me to maintain that only one of the above statements is Christian, on these forums. Perhaps I might only say, to borrow a Latin expression, res ipsa loquitur.

FineLinen · Apr 12, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
It may not be prudent for me to maintain that only one of the above statements is Christian, on these forums. Perhaps I might only say, to borrow a Latin expression, res ipsa loquitur.

Good grief, Shrewd give an old feller a break.

It required F.L. taking time from declaring unprecedented news of our glorious Lord to search on DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.

res ipsa loquitur

phrase
A maxim where the very improbable facts of an accident imply the negligence of the defendant. It effectively shifts the burden of proof to the defendant.
n.
a rule of evidence whereby the negligence of an alleged wrongdoer can be inferred from the fact that the accident happened

FineLinen · Apr 12, 2020

FineLinen said:
Good grief, Shrewd give an old feller a break.

It required F.L. taking time from declaring unprecedented news of our glorious Lord to search on DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.

res ipsa loquitur

phrase
A maxim where the very improbable facts of an accident imply the negligence of the defendant. It effectively shifts the burden of proof to the defendant.

n.
a rule of evidence whereby the negligence of an alleged wrongdoer can be inferred from the fact that the accident happened

Correction: Megas correction!

The Author & Finisher has NOT been negligent! Nothing He has done (or will ever do is) by accident.

The Goal is the Source!

Lazarus Short · Apr 12, 2020

Something I read today somewhere on the www:

People are funny. They’ll demand ironclad proof before they’ll change an opinion they formed with no proof at all.

Shrewd Manager · Apr 12, 2020

FineLinen said:
Good grief, Shrewd give an old feller a break.

It required F.L. taking time from declaring unprecedented news of our glorious Lord to search on DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.

res ipsa loquitur

phrase
A maxim where the very improbable facts of an accident imply the negligence of the defendant. It effectively shifts the burden of proof to the defendant.

n.
a rule of evidence whereby the negligence of an alleged wrongdoer can be inferred from the fact that the accident happened

My apologies F.L., on this occasion the translation seems to have duck duck gone. The literal meaning is 'the thing speaks for itself'.

Shrewd Manager · Apr 12, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
Something I read today somewhere on the www:

People are funny. They’ll demand ironclad proof before they’ll change an opinion they formed with no proof at all.

That's nicely put, a light observation of the darkness of pride, self-righteous wilful blindness, hypocrisy and vanity. Satan loves that weakness, I'd say it's his favorite 'hack' (to use an IT term) in so-called modernity. All suffer from a susceptibility to some extent.

But we're taught that while knowledge puffs up, love builds up. And he who thinks that he stand best beware lest he fall.

Lazarus Short · Apr 12, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
My apologies F.L., on this occasion the translation seems to have duck duck gone. The literal meaning is 'the thing speaks for itself'.

Or, as the Babylon Five character Kosh Naranek said, "The truth points to itself."

FineLinen · Apr 15, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
That's nicely put, a light observation of the darkness of pride, self-righteous wilful blindness, hypocrisy and vanity. Satan loves that weakness, I'd say it's his favorite 'hack' (to use an IT term) in so-called modernity. All suffer from a susceptibility to some extent.

But we're taught that while knowledge puffs up, love builds up. And he who thinks that he stand best beware lest he fall.

The stages of our Father in coming to know Him is an expanding experience. With each new stage, fresh challenges await every one of us who are the pre-called in this present experience & scheme of things. All blindness (willing or not) with all vanity & hypocrisy, must find its end in the Beginning One. ALL!

FineLinen · Apr 17, 2020

FineLinen · Apr 20, 2020

Today over 15,000 children under age 5 die. That is repeated worldwide every day.

There are over 30,000 diseases our species endures.

Another pandemic has invaded our world.

And the Christian of various persuasions has a clear answer:

Away you go into everlasting torment forever and ever & ever.

Oh please spare me such stupidity ! ! ! !

Search = eternal hell

Your search query has yielded no results. Please modify your query and try again.

No more let sins and sorrows grow,
nor thorns infest the ground;
he comes to make his blessings flow
far as the curse is found,
far as the curse is found,
far as, far as the curse is found. -Isaac Watts-

Curse = katanathema =

By metonymy: accursed thing put to the thing announced.

“The leaves of the Tree are for healing the nations. Never again will anything be cursed. The Throne of God and of the Lamb is at the center. His servants will offer God service—worshiping, they’ll look on his face, their foreheads mirroring God. Never again will there be any night. No one will need lamplight or sunlight. The shining of God, the Master, is all the light anyone needs. And they will rule with him age after age after age.” -The Message-

There shall be NO MORE curse!

The Ghastly Eternal Torment Dogma

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This is me about 1 yr. old.

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Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

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Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

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