If we become a Christian in order to get saved...

Inkfingers said:

...we are acting out of love of self, not love of God.

If that does not hit you like a swinging block of lead, you have not understood it.

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God created us to glorify him and for his pleasure.

Inkfingers said:

...we are acting out of love of self, not love of God.

If that does not hit you like a swinging block of lead, you have not understood it.

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Yet there is nothing wrong with it. One man seeks salvation out of love for God, one man seeks salvation out of fear of God, still another seeks salvation in anticipation of reward from God. They are all equal.

Inkfingers said:

...we are acting out of love of self, not love of God.

If that does not hit you like a swinging block of lead, you have not understood it.

Click to expand...

ewq1938 said:

You shouldn't be making the act of getting saved a bad thing. Let that hit YOU like a swinging block of lead.

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sometimes when we start our walk with Christ, it's just fire insurance. But eventually we start to love the Man who saved us so selflessly, and it is in that mode of the relationship that we leave the initial selfishness of salvation, and it turns into something beautiful. Like a man and a woman married, and making love with each other.

Inkfingers said:

Matthew 7:21

If we are acting out of love of self, not love of God, here's a little shocker for us....we're not saved.

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I Wouldn't go that far, see my last post. Sanctification means we are slowly made into the image of the father. But when we are saved, we are like a baby christian, we make poops and mess ourselves, and he changes our diapers sort to say. But eventually we grow up, (hopefully). But I agree some people are just saved to get out of hell, and don't care about Christ at all.

Inkfingers said:

...we are acting out of love of self, not love of God.

If that does not hit you like a swinging block of lead, you have not understood it.

Click to expand...

As the Bible has it, God loves us first and makes the calling. We respond in faith.

Salvation is by God’s will.

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Inkfingers said:

...we are acting out of love of self, not love of God.
If that does not hit you like a swinging block of lead, you have not understood it.

Click to expand...

A person can hit a rock bottom, an ego-deflation at depth, which glimpses their own truth of invalidity. Many in such moments of clarity seek salvation from a power greater than themselves. They seek other than self to save them. They, at that moment, no longer trust themselves.

They sought God to find their true self without knowing they were actually seeking their innermost being or soul. They 'know' only God could save them. This 'knowing' is not an in-loveness of God by self, but by their innermost being. But most would not be aware of this truth, not yet anyway. They sought salvation more out of fear, suffering and desperation, than out of a love of God.

Inkfingers said:

Matthew 7:21

If we are acting out of love of self, not love of God, here's a little shocker for us....we're not saved.

Hence Matthew 10:39

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Those verses are about the works worthy of repentance, what we did with the talents, well after the phase I understood in the thread title.

Your fellow christians are your talents - how much did you help them mature - intercede for them and show them how to intercede?

That's what those two are about.

Your church should have been telling you this as part of your full & normal birth and their mentoring of your character subsequent to your joining them.

Inkfingers said:

If we become a Christian in order to get saved...
...we are acting out of love of self, not love of God.

Click to expand...

So you are advocating the best way to love God is to go and burn in hell forever?

Inkfingers said:

Matthew 7:21

If we are acting out of love of self, not love of God, here's a little shocker for us....we're not saved.

Hence Matthew 10:39

Click to expand...

That's not what that verse means. That verse is about believing your life is worth more than following God in truth, a choice many people are faced with throughout history up to current day.

If someone asks you to renounce your faith or die, then don't save your life.

The Bible says we love God, because He first loved us, and that while we were enemies of God Chirst died for us and more such language.

We aren't capable of loving first, but some have the capacity to love in return, because God gave them this measure of Grace.

I do agree with you on one point, we aren't entered into a business transaction here.

Inkfingers said:

...we are acting out of love of self, not love of God.

If that does not hit you like a swinging block of lead, you have not understood it.

Click to expand...

If one does not grow beyond that selfish implus then yes it will come back and bite one.
But as do many have commented one grows, is sanctified and that reason becomes irrelevant because of one's current reasons for being a Christian.

Inkfingers said:

...we are acting out of love of self, not love of God.

If that does not hit you like a swinging block of lead, you have not understood it.

Click to expand...

I just don't believe a person can get up one morning and decide "I think I'll get saved today". It truly takes a deep work of God on their soul, convicting and enlightening.

John 1:12-13 KJVS
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Matthew 16:17 KJVS
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 16:8 KJVS
[8] And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Inkfingers said:

...we are acting out of love of self, not love of God.

If that does not hit you like a swinging block of lead, you have not understood it.

Click to expand...

God's law was given for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so we should still obey it if for no other reason than what we get out of it and there is nothing inherently wrong being motivated by self-love. We are commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves, so we need to love ourselves, and should love ourselves as God loves us.

God said that we would be blessed or cursed depending upon our obedience, so again there is nothing wrong with that being a motivation. Rewards or punishments are extrinsic motivators where we don't see an intrinsic connection between what we are doing and the reward, such getting a pay check for working a job, however, we will still quit a high paying job if the work is meaningless, so it is a not in itself an effective level of motivation. Intrinsic rewards where the action itself is a benefit to us is a deeper level of motivation, such as brushing our teeth. All of God's laws encourage or discourage the development of positive or negative character traits, so there is an intrinsic benefit to us obeying them.

Relationship is the next level of motivation where we do things to benefit someone else. God does not need us to do anything, but when He makes Himself need by giving us many commands, He is giving us many opportunities to connect with Him in every aspect of our lives so that we can develop a relationship with Him. The deepest level of motivation is it is something that is ideally important or the right thing to do. Whenever we express God’s character traits through our obedience to His commands we are fixing or reconciling the world through testifying that there is a God and about whom He is.

Being command to do something is inconvenient, but we are willing to take inconvenient responsibilities when we have the right motivation, so we need to have the right narrative around God's commands. When we have a different narrative about why we are doing something, then we feel differently about it, and when we feel differently about it, then we are motivated to do it. It can change God ordering us to do something that is a pain in the neck to creating a connect with Him, from something that we have to do to something that we get to do, and from needing to do a good deed so that God will love us to God loves us so He instructed us to do good deeds.