Controversial issue. Need genuine advice

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,250
10,565
New Jersey
✟1,147,348.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
The movie is I think intended to associate christianity and church with bigotry and ignorance. Many will see this movie and never set foot in church again. It is that disturbing. The message is Christians will reject you and disown you if you are gay. It's very convincing to young minds
The problem is, it's real. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Conversion-Therapy-LGBT-Youth-Jan-2018.pdf. That doesn't mean that all Christians do it, but some do. A former pastor in our church worked with homeless kids in San Francisco. Many of them were gay kids who had been thrown out on the street by their parents. Of course not all of those parents were Christian, but some were.

The response can't be "this doesn't happen," but "most Christians wouldn't do that, and neither we nor our church would do that." But remember, when you talk about "Christians will reject you," that doesn't mean just sending people to these camps. By most people's definition, accepting someone means welcoming them as a church member, giving them leadership and teaching roles you'd give anyone else with similar qualifications. Do you really think most Christian churches would do that? If not, any reasonably intelligent young person will doubt your statement about not rejecting gays.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

rebornfree

Senior Veteran
Supporter
May 5, 2007
8,404
14,214
NW England
✟790,449.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Divorced
By most people's definition, accepting someone means welcoming them as a church member, giving them leadership and teaching roles you'd give anyone else with similar qualifications. Do you really think most Christian churches would do that? If not, any reasonably intelligent young person will doubt your statement about not rejecting gays.
Welcoming anyone - absolutely; church membership would depend on whether or not they have accepted the Lord as their Saviour and teaching/leadership roles for those who have matured in their walk with Him, whatever the issues in their life are/were.
 
Upvote 0

MyLifeForChrist

Active Member
Mar 14, 2020
174
60
Midwest
✟20,039.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
T
The response can't be "this doesn't happen," but "most Christians wouldn't do that, and neither we nor our church would do that." But remember, when you talk about "Christians will reject you," that doesn't mean just sending people to these camps. By most people's definition, accepting someone means welcoming them as a church member, giving them leadership and teaching roles you'd give anyone else with similar qualifications. Do you really think most Christian churches would do that? If not, any reasonably intelligent young person will doubt your statement about not rejecting gays.

We tried that in public education with hippie era teachers who (cough) 'only' wanted every summer off and Cadillac pension plans while bankrupting/cutting 21st century teachers off at the knees. You don't offer teaching or leadership roles to those who propagate anything other than the very well defined community that God has asked us to build.
Treating someone like your brother and encouraging hm to follow God's word (pretty simple in terms of this topic) not his own interpretation is true love.

I find it interesting that few seem to see any value in simply asking the OP's daughter to llsten to those who have actually been there and where they are now in a chaste God-fearing life with support all around them.
Did I say 'God fearing'???
Perhaps this concept is initially required and possibly a motivator for those who have seen the movie (literally) which many of us cannot truly understand fully.
Desire of the Everlasting Hills Movie
 
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,250
10,565
New Jersey
✟1,147,348.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
Welcoming anyone - absolutely; church membership would depend on whether or not they have accepted the Lord as their Saviour and teaching/leadership roles for those who have matured in their walk with Him, whatever the issues in their life are/were.
I'm glad to hear it. You're probably aware that very few churches will allow openly gay members to be leaders.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ZNP

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2020
4,311
1,382
Atlanta
✟54,279.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Some argue that the NT teaching that an overseer is to be the husband of one wife is biased. However, if the overseer is the husband of one wife then you are appointing both a man and a woman to oversee the church. In most, if not all cases, the pastor's wife is a very significant position in the church. Also, since churches as a rule are about 2/3 female making sure a man is part of the leadership helps prevent the men in the congregation from being pushed aside. I have seen congregations where there was a single woman pastor, and it seemed the congregation was closer to 90% women with the only men being the elderly husbands of a few women and a few teenage sons. I think the accusation of bias deserves further investigation, I wish someone would actually compare the demographics of congregations where the overseer was the husband of one wife, versus those where the pastor is a single woman.
 
Upvote 0

lsume

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 14, 2017
1,491
696
70
Florida
✟417,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for praying for her ❤
I normally would not need to revisit your post as when I pray I know God always hears. I started thinking about all of the young minds so easily influenced by liberal teachings. Typically it’s because they have not had to work as hard and learn as much as others. In principle communism sound like an ideal way to live. Everyone gives of their efforts 100% always for the common good. They get what they want since there will be an abundance of everything. Unfortunately because of the sinful nature of man it will never work until Christ eliminates sin on earth. To do a real honest appraisal of capitalism would take time and still will not look attractive but it’s been working here for awhile. Allegedly democracies don’t last forever either. Rome certainly fell but only after they became reprobate as a society.
 
Upvote 0

rebornfree

Senior Veteran
Supporter
May 5, 2007
8,404
14,214
NW England
✟790,449.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Divorced
I'm glad to hear it. You're probably aware that very few churches will allow openly gay members to be leaders.
I think the issue would be whether they were celibate or not, as it would be for an unmarried heterosexual and for a married leader to have only one wife (i.e. being faithful).
 
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,250
10,565
New Jersey
✟1,147,348.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
I think the issue would be whether they were celibate or not, as it would be for an unmarried heterosexual and for a married leader to have only one wife (i.e. being faithful).
When people say they accept gays most people would not understand that as limited to celibate gays.

There's a long history of people saying "of course I accept you" and then bombarding them with threats of hell if they don't change. That leads people to be skeptical about claims of acceptance.

I'm aware that plenty of Christians think unrepentant gays actually will go to hell. I don't agree, but I respect the commitment to Scripture that is the basis for this. However I think it's misleading, and will backfire, for someone holding that position to say that they accept gays.
 
Upvote 0

rebornfree

Senior Veteran
Supporter
May 5, 2007
8,404
14,214
NW England
✟790,449.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Divorced
When people say they accept gays most people would not understand that as limited to celibate gays.

There's a long history of people saying "of course I accept you" and then bombarding them with threats of hell if they don't change. That leads people to be skeptical about claims of acceptance.

I'm aware that plenty of Christians think unrepentant gays actually will go to hell. I don't agree, but I respect the commitment to Scripture that is the basis for this. However I think it's misleading, and will backfire, for someone holding that position to say that they accept gays.
Well, scripture teaches us that we are all sinners (Romans 3 v 23) and that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6 v 23), so I don't particularly like the way that one group of sinners is picked upon by some Christians. The threat of hell applies to us all, and is removed when we realise that Jesus has taken the punishment for us (Romans 3 v 24) and we accept him as our Saviour. Surely that means living the right way (although I know we can fall back at times) which is celibacy outside marriage, faithfulness within and marriage being between one woman and one man.

When we talk of 'acceptance' maybe society confuses acceptance of the person (i.e. loving them as they are), which I think we should do, with acceptance of the behaviour. We cannot deny the Bible which says that homosexual behaviour is a sin, as is heterosexual misbehaviour and many other things, but I feel we should teach the Bible with humility, as we are sinners too, even though our sins may be different. Our acceptance by God surely is through our belief in His son, so you could argue that we were not accepted before belief either (John 3 v 18), although of course we were loved by him (John 3 v 16).

I'm not very keen on bombarding anyone with threats of hell. I would far rather introduce them to Jesus and let Him deal with their issues. However I have heard that such threats have led some to Christ.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Qwertyui0p
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

NothingIsImpossible

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
5,615
3,254
✟274,922.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My wife and I don't have kids yet but I do worry about the fact if we do, they will basically be taught by anti-christian schools/colleges. So many christians kids turn away because of those places. I can only pray they realize the devil wants them to believe these places so he can have their souls in hell.

My dad always told me he can teach me all he wants, but as an adult it is up to me if I turn away from God or not. He cannot force me to come back. In my case I never left per say, but I would say I was never really even luke-warm as a teen. I got mad at God.

But thankfully I came back in my early 30s. I pray your daughter will come back and realize the lies of the world only sound good because the devil has had practice at lying to people. I will pray for you too that you can somehow answer and reach her. God will never give up on her, even when she hurts Him. He is willing to forgive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rebornfree
Upvote 0