God's punishment

No

Fantine said:

The theories are beginning: COVID 19 is God's punishment, usually for sexual sins or abortion.

That does not agree with the loving God I know.

I do believe in the law of natural consequences. A Harvard epidemiologist has written that thesez novel viruses are increasing because animal species are forced to seek new habitats as climate changes. The most recent novel viruses have been transmitted to mankind from bats. Because mankind has no natural immunity to these animal viruses they can be very serious.

In addition, increased pollution has made humans much more vulnerable to lung diseases. Wuhan, where this disease was first diagnosed, is China's Center for auto manufacturing. Chinese factories create so much pollution that they sometimes have to close for a week to bring the pollution down.

These two events, increased pollution and animal migration north, created a perfect storm for this deadly virus to be transmitted to humans.

In other words we are experiencing these natural consequences because of our sin, but not because of the sins people are talking about. Our sin is in our responsibility towards the environment. We are not being good stewards of God's creation. The poor are harmed most by climate change.

We need to take this warning seriously, by conserving, recycling, reusing, and developing alternative means of energy.

God would never affect a pandemic on mankind that's punishment, but he could let us experience natural consequences so we will change

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Nothing can happen without God's permission. We commit sin, we get punished.

Deuteronomy 28:15,16,21 &22 says "However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country"
The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish.

So you dont think its anything to do with the rumoured biological weapon research centre in Wuhan?

Semper-Fi said:

The zoo for sale for food consumation caused it.
Be warned not a pretty site to see animal abuse.

The Most Exotic Marketing in the World - Wuhan

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=244271036579375

Nizam Reza Qadri-The Most Exotic Market..
Log in to Facebook | Facebook

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I cannot see the videa but I believe this is the cause. The Chinese seem to have no food and drug admin and let them sell whatever they could find and they bought whatever was sold. Creatures who were not meant to be in contact with humans brought their viruses. Those of us who live in countries that have an FDA can be grateful for their protection. Maybe they are great but we can see that without them the people are worse off by a large margin.

Marumorose said:

No

Nothing can happen without God's permission. We commit sin, we get punished.

Deuteronomy 28:15,16,21 &22 says "However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country"
The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish.

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God is not micromanaging the world. The chinese did not ask God's permission to sell "exotic" animals and we do not ask God's permission to do what we do either. God has set up the world such that there are consequences to actions. He does not need to actively give permission. He already set up the system that is so without his active interferring. He can do this and does, but there are things that happen that He did not want to happen.

Economists at Goldman Sachs are forecasting a 24% drop in gross domestic product in the second quarter, according to a research report released Friday.

The stunning drop is expected to follow a 6% contraction in the first quarter, the analysts said, and will be followed by a gradual return to growth in the rest of the year, with 12% growth in the third quarter and 10% growth in the fourth. (All rates are on an annualized basis.)

J

Dorothy Mae said:

God is not micromanaging the world. The chinese did not ask God's permission to sell "exotic" animals and we do not ask God's permission to do what we do either. God has set up the world such that there are consequences to actions. He does not need to actively give permission. He already set up the system that is so without his active interferring. He can do this and does, but there are things that happen that He did not want to happen.

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God granted Satan permission to test Job's righteousness. Job 1:9-12
Matthew 18:18 Jesus christ says " Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
Proverbs 16:1 says "The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the Lord"
Luke 22:31-32 Jesus Christ says"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail.
Maybe Satan have asked God permission for the chinese to sell exotic animals.

Marumorose said:

J

God granted Satan permission to test Job's righteousness. Job 1:9-12

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It’s a logical fallacy to think that because God granted Satan permission to touch a righteous man who otherwise had a hedge around him, the same goes for everything Satan does or what men do. The Bible says men do what God didn’t want. So no permission requested of God or granted and still it happens.

Matthew 18:18

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Jesus christ says " Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

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So please bind the virus so it’s gone tomorrow. Secondly, where is permission being asked or granted in that verse?

Proverbs 16:1 says "The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the Lord"

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Why do we have monitors here then if God himself is writing all the posts?? How come Jesus warned we will be judged for our words if all of them come from God??

Luke 22:31-32 Jesus Christ says"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail.

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That was said to Simon and Simon alone. Jesus said to the disciples that one of them a devil. Do you apply that verse to believers today too?

Maybe Satan have asked God permission for the chinese to sell exotic animals.

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Where is the verse on that?

Men do not do the will of God in earth. Isn’t it obvious?

Satan is the ruler of this world. the bible say so.
No one is born good or evil. You become evil because of the devil

Firstly - Let me educate you a little bit. The kingdom is darkness is real and it belongs to GOD.
ALL fallen angels and demons belong to GOD. They all serve GOD
When we commit sins,we automatically give the devil permission to destroy us. GOD does not physically come down to earth to punish us, instead He uses the kingdom of darkness to punish us because the kingdom of darkness is already ruling on earth.
When you kill someone, for example, who gave you that idea to kill? The devil.
Either Jesus Christ lives in you OR the devil lives in you. God gave us that choice.
When you are a child of God, you will have a good mind and when you are the devil's child, you will have an evil mind. Meaning you will grant the devil permission to put thoughts in your minds

Secondly (Luke 22:31-32) - THE BIBLE IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. IT DOES NOT CHANGE. what happened millions of years ago will continue to happen in the next million years.

Thirdly - The bible was written for everyone. Not for only me. Why don't YOU bind the virus?
What you allow on earth, will be allowed in heaven. What you permit on earth, will be permitted in heaven. That's the explanation for that verse

Forthly - Proverbs 16:1 means only God is in charge of everything. not mankind. He is the creator. The holder of the key of life and death(Reveletion 1:18). The one who opens and no one shuts;who shuts and no one opens (Revelation 3:7)
You are judged for your words because you gave the devil permission to give you those words
Remember that Jesus Christ also needs your permission to come and live within you. And when He lives in you, you say good words.

Finaly - Yes. most men do the will of the devil on earth
When you are charitable or loving, you are guided by the holy spirit
when you are hateful and uncaring, you are guided by the evil spirits
May God Bless You

Marumorose said:

Satan is the ruler of this world. the bible say so.
No one is born good or evil. You become evil because of the devil

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NOt any more. When Jesus rose from the dead he said HE, not Satan, has all authority on Heaven and on Earth. The ruler of this world LOST at calvary. Now Jesus is the ruler of this world. That is what Jesus said.

Firstly - Let me educate you a little bit. The kingdom is darkness is real and it belongs to GOD.

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Not the God and Father of our Lord JEsus Christ. The Kingdom of Darkness does not belong to God as his will is not done there. But let's see if you can find a scripture that tells us that the Kingdom of Darkness belongs to God. Who is educating whom?

ALL fallen angels and demons belong to GOD. They all serve GOD

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So why didn't Jesus let Satan sift Peter as he wanted to do? Why did Jesus rebuke the demons if they were all serving God? Makes no sense. You are wrong. The will of God is not being done by Satan. He is our enemy, not a servant of the living God like everyone else.

When we commit sins,we automatically give the devil permission to destroy us. GOD does not physically come down to earth to punish us, instead He uses the kingdom of darkness to punish us because the kingdom of darkness is already ruling on earth.

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Please give the scripture for this one.

When you kill someone, for example, who gave you that idea to kill? The devil.

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I don't kill people. Please find something that is real.

Either Jesus Christ lives in you OR the devil lives in you. God gave us that choice.
When you are a child of God, you will have a good mind and when you are the devil's child, you will have an evil mind. Meaning you will grant the devil permission to put thoughts in your minds

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I assure you the Enemy puts thoughts in the minds of believers too. I can give you a scripture for that but do you know it?

Secondly (Luke 22:31-32) - THE BIBLE IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. IT DOES NOT CHANGE. what happened millions of years ago will continue to happen in the next million years.

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I agree. Then let us use it. Does not establish your point but it is true.

Thirdly - The bible was written for everyone. Not for only me. Why don't YOU bind the virus?

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Why don't you? Bind it on the earth and no one will die from this day Forward. I dare you to test your theology in real life. Bind the virus from the planet and I will testify when no one gets sick or dies from the 24th of March that you did it. How much do you really believe your own theology???

What you allow on earth, will be allowed in heaven. What you permit on earth, will be permitted in heaven. That's the explanation for that verse

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Step up to the plate and banish it from this day Forward. Let us see how true your theology is when it Comes to real life.

Forthly - Proverbs 16:1 means only God is in charge of everything. not mankind. He is the creator. The holder of the key of life and death(Reveletion 1:18). The one who opens and no one shuts;who shuts and no one opens (Revelation 3:7)

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I do not see that that or any verse is saying God is micromanaging everything. Is he micromanaging the man who rapes baby girls? I can go on and on listing horrible Things people do and how will you defend your theology that tells you that God is in charge of the Evil doers.

Now sometimes God opens doors. But not all doors that open are due to him. I can prove it. Open a door in your house and see if you can close it. If you can, you are wrong. He is not Opening up all doors. [/Quote]
You are judged for your words because you gave the devil permission to give you those words[/Quote]No, my words from an understanding of the ways of God. They are very complex but I know and understand God in this complexity. I know why He does what He does. Do you?

Remember that Jesus Christ also needs your permission to come and live within you. And when He lives in you, you say good words.

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Well, I do not find your words good. Are you willing to live with your theology when applied to yourself?

Finaly - Yes. most men do the will of the devil on earth
When you are charitable or loving, you are guided by the holy spirit
when you are hateful and uncaring, you are guided by the evil spirits
May God Bless You

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So is God Controlling the whole earth or not. Now you say he is and now you say he is not but the devil is.

Dear sister, can you see that you cannot even stick to your own position inside one post. First you say God is in charge of everyone and then you say the Devil is making people do stuff. I guess you get out of that by saying the Devil is doing the will of God by making people do horrible Things to other people. What Kind of God are you believing in? The God I know hates Evil. He does not want anyone to do any Evil to anyone.

Dorothy Mae said:

NOt any more. When Jesus rose from the dead he said HE, not Satan, has all authority on Heaven and on Earth. The ruler of this world LOST at calvary. Now Jesus is the ruler of this world. That is what Jesus said.
Not the God and Father of our Lord JEsus Christ. The Kingdom of Darkness does not belong to God as his will is not done there. But let's see if you can find a scripture that tells us that the Kingdom of Darkness belongs to God. Who is educating whom? So why didn't Jesus let Satan sift Peter as he wanted to do? Why did Jesus rebuke the demons if they were all serving God? Makes no sense. You are wrong. The will of God is not being done by Satan. He is our enemy, not a servant of the living God like everyone else. Please give the scripture for this one. I don't kill people. Please find something that is real.I assure you the Enemy puts thoughts in the minds of believers too. I can give you a scripture for that but do you know it?
I agree. Then let us use it. Does not establish your point but it is true.Why don't you? Bind it on the earth and no one will die from this day Forward. I dare you to test your theology in real life. Bind the virus from the planet and I will testify when no one gets sick or dies from the 24th of March that you did it. How much do you really believe your own theology???Step up to the plate and banish it from this day Forward. Let us see how true your theology is when it Comes to real life. I do not see that that or any verse is saying God is micromanaging everything. Is he micromanaging the man who rapes baby girls? I can go on and on listing horrible Things people do and how will you defend your theology that tells you that God is in charge of the Evil doers.

Now sometimes God opens doors. But not all doors that open are due to him. I can prove it. Open a door in your house and see if you can close it. If you can, you are wrong. He is not Opening up all doors.

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You are judged for your words because you gave the devil permission to give you those words[/Quote]No, my words from an understanding of the ways of God. They are very complex but I know and understand God in this complexity. I know why He does what He does. Do you? Well, I do not find your words good. Are you willing to live with your theology when applied to yourself?

So is God Controlling the whole earth or not. Now you say he is and now you say he is not but the devil is.

Dear sister, can you see that you cannot even stick to your own position inside one post. First you say God is in charge of everyone and then you say the Devil is making people do stuff. I guess you get out of that by saying the Devil is doing the will of God by making people do horrible Things to other people. What Kind of God are you believing in? The God I know hates Evil. He does not want anyone to do any Evil to anyone.[/QUOTE]

My problem with you is that you challenge what i am saying but you are not supporting your statements by quoting the bible. Not even one verse?

I am sorry to ask you but are you a Christian? You do not reason like a real christian. Have you read the ENTIRE bible? I do not get you.

I am trying to educate people about the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of darkness so that they understand the Spiritual world because heaven is spiritual. kingdom of darkness is spiritual. God is spiritual and Jesus Christ is spiritual.the devil is spiritual.
You still need to grow spiritually because you are clueless about how the Kingdom of Heaven and Darkness operate.
Pray to God to give you Wisdom and he will reveal secrets to you because you do not understand what i am trying to explain to you. you just want to argue

In Ezekiel 9 from verse 5 says "Then I heard the Lord say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all—old and young, girls and women and little children."
Do you think that God was evil to do that or not?

God gave us free will but he is the creator of everything and he is in charge.
Psalms 22:28 "For the kingdom is the LORD'S And He rules over the nations."

Nehemiah 9:6 says "You alone are the Lord. You made the skies and the heavens and all the stars. You made the earth and the seas and everything in them."(John 1:1-3)

HE is patient with us. He gives us a chance to repent before he punishes us.
He owns heaven and Hell because he created them both. The devil created nothing. He is a copycat.
If we do good, If we follow God, If we choose to follow his commandments THEN the devil will not have power over us. God will not let him. BUT if we choose the kingdom of darkness then God will give the devil permission to destroy us. John 10:10 Jesus Christ says "The thief’s(who is the devil) purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life

Satan is the ruler of the earth
2 Corinthians 4:4 "Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God."
1 John 5:19" We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

God owns the kingdom of darkness and the Devil
1 Samuel 2:6 The Lord kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up.
Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Job 1:6-7 "One day the members of the heavenly courta came to present themselves before the Lord, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them.“Where have you come from?” the Lord asked Satan.
Satan answered the Lord, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on.”
Satan was summoned to appear in front of God just like the other angels.

God gives the devil permission to destroy us
Revelation 20:7-8 "When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth.
(2 Peter 3:10 "But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day")

We give the devil permission too
Ephesians 4:27 " And “don’t sin by letting anger control you. Don’t let the sun go down while you are still angry, for anger gives a foothold to the devil.
John 8:44 Jesus says "For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me! Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don’t you believe me? Anyone who belongs to God listens gladly to the words of God. But you don’t listen because you don’t belong to God.”

Jesus Christ needs permission to live within you
John 14:23 Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.

May God give you enlightenment

Marumorose said:

You are judged for your words because you gave the devil permission to give you those words

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No, my words come from an understanding of the ways of God. They are very complex but I know and understand God in this complexity. I know why He does what He does. Do you? Well, I do not find your words good. Are you willing to live with your theology when applied to yourself?

So is God Controlling the whole earth or not. Now you say he is and now you say he is not but the devil is.

Dear sister, can you see that you cannot even stick to your own position inside one post. First you say God is in charge of everyone and then you say the Devil is making people do stuff. I guess you get out of that by saying the Devil is doing the will of God by making people do horrible Things to other people. What Kind of God are you believing in? The God I know hates Evil. He does not want anyone to do any Evil to anyone.[/QUOTE]

My problem with you is that you challenge what i am saying but you are not supporting your statements by quoting the bible. Not even one verse?

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“Choose this day whom you will serve” tells us God is not choosing for us. “By every word you will be judged” tells us He is not controlling what we say.” “Depart from me” tells us He is not controlling what we do. “He doesn’t willingly afflict or grieve the sons of men” tells us he has no please in giving us according to our choices. I can provide myriads of these without looking up any of them.

I am sorry to ask you but are you a Christian? You do not reason like a real christian. Have you read the ENTIRE bible? I do not get you.

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Fair question. I surrendered my life to the Lord almost 50 years ago. But I am not bound by man theology. I love truth and search the scriptures to see if views offered me be so.

I am trying to educate people about the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of darkness so that they understand the Spiritual world because heaven is spiritual. kingdom of darkness is spiritual. God is spiritual and Jesus Christ is spiritual.the devil is spiritual.

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Jesus also had and has a physical body. Darkness and light are so different there no mix. Your view is incorrect. What fellowship has light with darkness yet you say God owns darkness.

You still need to grow spiritually because you are clueless about how the Kingdom of Heaven and Darkness operate.

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If you were to be a child of the Lord, you must refrain from insulting those whom you don’t understand. I likely know more than you do.

Pray to God to give you Wisdom and he will reveal secrets to you because you do not understand what i am trying to explain to you. you just want to argue-

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You are in error. I know more than you do who thinks Satan does Gods will. Anyone who thinks this doesn’t understand evil.
a

In Ezekiel 9 from verse 5 says "Then I heard the Lord say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all—old and young, girls and women and little children."
Do you think that God was evil to do that or not?

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Just judgement is not evil. This is evidence what evil is isn’t clear to you. If it were, you wouldn’t ask. Shall I explain it?

God gave us free will but he is the creator of everything and he is in charge.

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Feee will means we freely choose. He is not a tyrant.

Psalms 22:28 "For the kingdom is the LORD'S And He rules over the nations."

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How He rules is the question. You seem to assume tyranny. I say it’s more complex than tyranny.

Nehemiah 9:6 says "You alone are the Lord. You made the skies and the heavens and all the stars. You made the earth and the seas and everything in them."(John 1:1-3)

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He created matter. He doesn’t rule our choices.

HE is patient with us. He gives us a chance to repent before he punishes us.
He owns heaven and Hell because he created them both. The devil created nothing. He is a copycat.
If we do good, If we follow God, If we choose to follow his commandments THEN the devil will not have power over us. God will not let him. BUT if we choose the kingdom of darkness then God will give the devil permission to destroy us. John 10:10 Jesus Christ says "The thief’s(who is the devil) purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life

Click to expand...

Correct

Satan is the ruler of the earth
2 Corinthians 4:4 "Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God."
1 John 5:19" We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

Click to expand...

Satan is not the ruler of this world and this verse doesn’t say he is. Jesus is.

God owns the kingdom of darkness and the Devil
1 Samuel 2:6 The Lord kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up.
Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Job 1:6-7 "One day the members of the heavenly courta came to present themselves before the Lord, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them.“Where have you come from?” the Lord asked Satan.
Satan answered the Lord, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on.”
Satan was summoned to appear in front of God just like the other angels.

God gives the devil permission to destroy us
Revelation 20:7-8 "When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth.
(2 Peter 3:10 "But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day")

We give the devil permission too
Ephesians 4:27 " And “don’t sin by letting anger control you. Don’t let the sun go down while you are still angry, for anger gives a foothold to the devil.
John 8:44 Jesus says "For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me! Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don’t you believe me? Anyone who belongs to God listens gladly to the words of God. But you don’t listen because you don’t belong to God.”

Jesus Christ needs permission to live within you
John 14:23 Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.

May God give you enlightenment

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None of those verses say God owns the kingdom of darkness. Sorry but that is NOT what it says. You should work on not personally insulting those who don’t agree with you. Fact is, your view is too simple. It’s more complex than how you describe it.

Fantine said:

The theories are beginning: COVID 19 is God's punishment, usually for sexual sins or abortion.

That does not agree with the loving God I know.

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This video suggests that the corona virus is not necessarily a punishment, but rather a global precursor event leading to something more. Dramatic events often lead to dramatic change. Personally, I think the points in the video make a lot of sense though I generally try to take a more subdued approach to world events and how they relate to Bible prophecy as so often wrong/inaccurate predictions only serve to increase apathy. Anyway, I'd be pretty interested to hear what others think of the points raised in this video.