Reopen America or Save American Lives?

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,573
7,772
63
Martinez
✟893,850.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Economists warn that keeping the U.S. closed will result in a crisis far worse than the Great Depression. But health experts warn to reopen the U.S. would expose millions of Americans to the Coronavirus.
With a 6 trillion dollar care package and first phase aimed at corporate giving, I doubt it.
Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor
 
Upvote 0

HannahT

Newbie
Supporter
Apr 9, 2013
6,027
2,422
✟458,831.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think his point is we need to evaluate daily and weekly. That Easter would be the earliest such a decision would be made and that the governors who have the pulse on their various regions make the call.

Governor Cuomo of NY said similar this morning. There are parts of NY unaffected or well contained and he would like to open those areas up again.

So this is not a dichotomy of either or, but both. Meaning those areas which need to be contained continue to do so and we protect the vulnerable in EVERY community.

That is what both Trump and Cuomo opined on today.

Yes, this is the second day the subject has been brought up in the briefings. Our family sits down and watches each day. We are on lockdown, and lol all home projects that were delayed have been done by now. This isn't a normal family event that's for sure.

What killed me was the headlines! Trump says the country needs to open and defies health experts, etc. - I'm paraphrasing, but you get the gist of it. I'm sorry but that doesn't help, but scares people.

Heck, even his doctors/Scientists got up and clarified what he just said about looking at certain areas, etc. They reminded the reporters about the curve, and you have different portions of the country on different parts of the curve at this point. One area can open up earlier than another. I think (if memory serves) they said the CA started earlier than NY. So they will finish the progression earlier. In other words, they could open up portions of that state earlier than NY can. Then you have other portions of the country that were not really affected, and could open sooner than CA or NY.

They talk about Trump lying all the time, and they make such sensational headlines that don't speak to what is said.

Personally? I have got more out of the briefings - although I'll admit Trump does yammer to much - than from the media.
 
Upvote 0

Jermayn

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2019
931
491
Northwest Florida
✟105,888.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Economists warn that keeping the U.S. closed will result in a crisis far worse than the Great Depression. But health experts warn to reopen the U.S. would expose millions of Americans to the Coronavirus.

People can go to work and still follow social distancing and Trumps 15 day guidelines. The virus will spread like wildfire because people want to gather in large groups AFTER work and on weekends. If we can all be responsible citizens, we could return to life as normal in two or three weeks, but I don't have much confidence in society myself. Also, if we could not pay attention to the people screaming "xenophobia" and keep the borders closed for a bit longer, that will help too.
 
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
8,118
4,528
✟269,140.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I don't think (?) that's true..

We can always get viruses more than once. We can catch a cold multiple times a year, the flu more than once...

Certainly if it's the exact same type and same strain of the virus you'll have some antibodies, but with all viruses they don't always last forever, not even every vaccine provides lifelong immunity...

I do believe if you allow it to run it's course you'll have a stronger immunity to it population wide, but it will also kill off anyone less naturally able to fight it.

this is patently false and stupid, the flu has like 6 strains going on at once, and cycle back every few years, by the time of which the strain you got last time has mutated enough your body either doesn't reconize, or barly refconizes and you get sick again.
 
Upvote 0

nonaeroterraqueous

Nonexistent Member
Aug 16, 2014
2,915
2,724
✟188,987.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
this is patently false and stupid, the flu has like 6 strains going on at once, and cycle back every few years, by the time of which the strain you got last time has mutated enough your body either doesn't reconize, or barly refconizes and you get sick again.
A person's immunity reaches a peak around age sixty. That's when they have a defense against the highest number of pathogens, but their immune reaction time hasn't slowed down, yet (at least, not enough to nullify the advantage). It's the younger people, especially children, who get sick most often. That means older people do encounter diseases that they've been exposed to, before, and the over-all effect of having been exposed to disease is a stronger immunity, even if viruses do tend to mutate.
 
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
8,118
4,528
✟269,140.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
A person's immunity reaches a peak around age sixty. That's when they have a defense against the highest number of pathogens, but their immune reaction time hasn't slowed down, yet (at least, not enough to nullify the advantage). It's the younger people, especially children, who get sick most often. That means older people do encounter diseases that they've been exposed to, before, and the over-all effect of having been exposed to disease is a stronger immunity, even if viruses do tend to mutate.

what does any of that have to do with the false claim you can only catch a strain of virus once.
 
Upvote 0

nonaeroterraqueous

Nonexistent Member
Aug 16, 2014
2,915
2,724
✟188,987.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
what does any of that have to do with the false claim you can only catch a strain of virus once.
I didn't know what you disputed because you weren't entirely clear, but it's not false. You can only catch it once. If it mutates, then it's not the same strain. The only way you can catch it again is if either
  • you are immunocompromised the second time, or
  • you get a megadose of the infectious agent, or
  • it mutates, in which case it's not the same strain, and your point is irrelevant.
 
Upvote 0

Ricky M

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 19, 2017
1,905
1,319
66
Los Angeles
✟130,544.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I think the world leaders will push for a new global economy system and this in turn will change a lot of systems.
That scares me more than any germ does. But that's exactly where we are headed.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ricky M

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 19, 2017
1,905
1,319
66
Los Angeles
✟130,544.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
what does any of that have to do with the false claim you can only catch a strain of virus once.
Typically, a pathogen gets into your system, your system creates antibodies to kill it off, then those antibodies stand guard against a return of that specific pathogen. That's how vaccines work, they get your system to produce antibodies against a specific pathogen. So, except for the conditions listed above*, you cannot catch the same bug twice.

* I would add the loss of antibodies over extended periods of time, like when your childhood vaccinations wear off at age 50
 
Upvote 0

Hazelelponi

I'm back
Supporter
Jun 25, 2018
9,210
8,688
55
USA
✟676,606.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
what does any of that have to do with the false claim you can only catch a strain of virus once.

I was disputing the claim that you can only catch a virus once....

So very unclear how you think my disputing the claim was "patently false"..
 
Upvote 0

SoldierOfTheKing

Christian Spenglerian
Jan 6, 2006
9,223
3,039
Kenmore, WA
✟276,939.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
A late friend of mine used to quote an old comedian who often said, "Your money or your life". It seems like the USA is on the brink of having to choose between money and human life. As the ghostie Crusader said in the 3rd Indiana Jones film, "choose wisely".

The economy is not "money".
 
Upvote 0

Peter J Barban

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,474
973
62
Taiwan
Visit site
✟97,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Look to East Asia for the solution: Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, and Japan, all nervous neighbors of China, got hit early with the virus and have high population density but have low death rates and have largely kept their economies going.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Sparagmos
Upvote 0

Sparagmos

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
8,632
7,319
52
Portland, Oregon
✟278,062.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Analysts anticipates 'worst' financial crisis since 1929 amid fears of global recession due to the Coronavirus. This is an unprecedented situation and the worst crisis to hit financial markets since the Great Depression.

CNBC
Wow so you were exaggerating in your first post? You said worse than the Great Depression, not the worst since the Great Depression.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Sparagmos

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2018
8,632
7,319
52
Portland, Oregon
✟278,062.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
A late friend of mine used to quote an old comedian who often said, "Your money or your life". It seems like the USA is on the brink of having to choose between money and human life. As the ghostie Crusader said in the 3rd Indiana Jones film, "choose wisely".
An economic depression could cause more deaths than CV. It’s not just money, it’s food and shelter and healthcare. I wouldn’t speak lightly of the suffering poverty causes. Not that I’m advocating against quarantine measures.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JCFantasy23
Upvote 0

GirdYourLoins

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2016
1,220
929
Brighton, UK
✟122,682.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here in the UK we are not getting much information on numbers affected. We get the confirmed cases, but only people admitted to hospital are tested. What we dont get is the total number of people affected who didnt need to go to hospital.

There are a couple of snippets I have picked up though. 8 days ago an estimate of 55,000 was given. That was I think people currently infected. Yesterday a doctor on the news made a comment that 80% of sufferers would have mild symptoms; that is quite an important figure as it means millions will get serious symptoms. That for me is a key reason why we need to stay in lockdown. No way the NHS will cope with that.

The other key bit of information coming out that makes me think lockdown is the only logical way to go forward, here in the UK The figures reported are 8077 cases, 281 deaths and only 65 recoveries. I think this is daily figures but the publication of information is very unclear and vague so cant be sure. The key thing is the low number of recoveries, particularly in relation to deaths.
 
Upvote 0

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,954
3,864
48
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
We can't remain closed. This is not Mad Max and the Thunderdome. But it will be, if people don't start getting back to work. We need to eat. We need services. There is no way we can remain locked down for months and survive as a nation. Individuals, not even the entire country at once, individuals can barely make it 15 days after a hurricane or nat disaster without services and monetary income. The entire country and all financial institutions shut down? No way. It will be chaos.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

sfs

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2003
10,675
7,744
64
Massachusetts
✟339,441.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It will be chaos.
It will also be chaos if 50 million people are sick at the same time and 50,000 are dying per day. What China demonstrated is that it's possible to control the outbreak by shutting things down hard for a couple of months, and then gradually easing up. Essential services can remain functional throughout, and massive government support can ease the financial burden. It's not a pleasant course, but it makes a lot more sense than trying to avoid the pain.
 
Upvote 0