Proving the thousand years of Revelation 20 is exactly 1000 years.

ewq1938

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The following scriptures are from the Esword bible program, specifically the KJV+ which gives the Strong's numbers for every word side by side with the English words. It might look confusing but it is important to show the English/Greek words and how they are used in scripture.


The Greek word chilias "thousand" G5505 is only used in scripture when there is more than one thousand of something but not under 2000:

Luk_14:31 OrG2228 whatG5101 king,G935 goingG4198 to make warG4820 G1519 G4171 against anotherG2087 king,G935 sitteth not downG2523 G3780 first,G4412 andG2532 consultethG1011 whetherG1487 he beG2076 ableG1415 withG1722 tenG1176 thousandG5505 to meetG528 him that comethG2064 againstG1909 himG846 withG3326 twentyG1501 thousand?G5505

Act_4:4 HowbeitG1161 manyG4183 of them which heardG191 theG3588 wordG3056 believed;G4100 andG2532 theG3588 numberG706 of theG3588 menG435 wasG1096 aboutG5616 fiveG4002 thousand.G5505

1Co_10:8 NeitherG3366 let us commit fornication,G4203 asG2531 someG5100 of themG846 committed,G4203 andG2532 fellG4098 inG1722 oneG3391 dayG2250 three and twenty thousand.G5140 G1501 G5505

Rev_5:11 AndG2532 I beheld,G1492 andG2532 I heardG191 the voiceG5456 of manyG4183 angelsG32 round aboutG2943 theG3588 throneG2362 andG2532 theG3588 beastsG2226 andG2532 theG3588 elders:G4245 andG2532 theG3588 numberG706 of themG846 wasG2258 ten thousand times ten thousand,G3461 G3461 andG2532 thousands of thousands;G5505 G5505

Rev_7:4 AndG2532 I heardG191 theG3588 numberG706 of them which were sealed:G4972 and there were sealedG4972 an hundred and forty and four thousandG1540 G5062 G5064 G5505 ofG1537 allG3956 the tribesG5443 of the childrenG5207 of Israel.G2474
Rev_7:5 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of JudaG2455 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of ReubenG4502 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of GadG1045 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505
Rev_7:6 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of AserG768 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of NepthalimG3508 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of ManassesG3128 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505
Rev_7:7 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of SimeonG4826 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of LeviG3017 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of IssacharG2466 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505
Rev_7:8 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of ZabulonG2194 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of JosephG2501 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of BenjaminG958 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505

Rev_11:13 AndG2532 the sameG1565 hourG5610 wasG1096 there a greatG3173 earthquake,G4578 andG2532 theG3588 tenth partG1182 of theG3588 cityG4172 fell,G4098 andG2532 inG1722 theG3588 earthquakeG4578 were slainG615 of(G3686) menG444 sevenG2033 thousand:G5505 andG2532 theG3588 remnantG3062 wereG1096 affrighted,G1719 andG2532 gaveG1325 gloryG1391 to theG3588 GodG2316 of heaven.G3772

Rev_14:1 AndG2532 I looked,G1492 and,G2532 lo,G2400 a LambG721 stoodG2476 onG1909 theG3588 mountG3735 Sion,G4622 andG2532 withG3326 himG846 an hundred forty and four thousand,G1540 G5062 G5064 G5505 havingG2192 hisG848 Father'sG3962 nameG3686 writtenG1125 inG1909 theirG848 foreheads.G3359

Rev_14:3 AndG2532 they sungG103 as it wereG5613 a newG2537 songG5603 beforeG1799 theG3588 throne,G2362 andG2532 beforeG1799 theG3588 fourG5064 beasts,G2226 andG2532 theG3588 elders:G4245 andG2532 no manG3762 couldG1410 learnG3129 that songG5603 butG1508 theG3588 hundred and forty and four thousand,G1540 G5062 G5064 G5505 which were redeemedG59 fromG575 theG3588 earth.G1093

Rev_21:16 AndG2532 theG3588 cityG4172 liethG2749 foursquare,G5068 andG2532 theG3588 lengthG3372 (G848) isG2076 as largeG5118 asG3745 theG3588 breadth:G4114 andG2532 he measuredG3354 theG3588 cityG4172 with theG3588 reed,G2563 twelveG1427 thousandG5505 (G1909) furlongs.G4712 TheG3588 lengthG3372 andG2532 theG3588 breadthG4114 andG2532 theG3588 heightG5311 of itG846 areG2076 equal.G2470


Yet when the number is only one single thousand of something or one thousand plus another number that's less than two thousand, the Greek word chilioi G5507 is used:


2Pe_3:8 But,G1161 beloved,G27 be not ignorantG2990 G3361 of thisG5124 one thing,G1520 thatG3754 oneG3391 dayG2250 is withG3844 the LordG2962 asG5613 a thousandG5507 years,G2094 andG2532 a thousandG5507 yearsG2094 asG5613 oneG3391 day.G2250

Rev_11:3 AndG2532 I will giveG1325 power unto myG3450 twoG1417 witnesses,G3144 andG2532 they shall prophesyG4395 a thousand two hundred and threescoreG5507 G1250 G1835 days,G2250 clothedG4016 in sackcloth.G4526

Rev_12:6 AndG2532 theG3588 womanG1135 fledG5343 intoG1519 theG3588 wilderness,G2048 whereG3699 she hathG2192 a placeG5117 preparedG2090 ofG575 God,G2316 thatG2443 they should feedG5142 herG846 thereG1563 a thousand two hundred and threescoreG5507 G1250 G1835 days.G2250

Rev_14:20 AndG2532 theG3588 winepressG3025 was troddenG3961 withoutG1854 theG3588 city,G4172 andG2532 bloodG129 cameG1831 out ofG1537 theG3588 winepress,G3025 even untoG891 theG3588 horseG2462 bridles,G5469 by the space ofG575 a thousand and six hundredG5507 G1812 furlongs.G4712

Rev_20:2 AndG2532 he laid hold onG2902 theG3588 dragon,G1404 that oldG744 serpent,G3789 whichG3739 isG2076 the Devil,G1228 andG2532 Satan,G4567 andG2532 boundG1210 himG846 a thousandG5507 years,G2094

Rev_20:3 AndG2532 castG906 himG846 intoG1519 theG3588 bottomless pit,G12 andG2532 shut him up,G2808 G846 andG2532 set a sealG4972 uponG1883 him,G846 thatG2443 he should deceiveG4105 theG3588 nationsG1484 noG3361 more,G2089 tillG891 theG3588 thousandG5507 yearsG2094 should be fulfilled:G5055 andG2532 afterG3326 thatG5023 heG846 mustG1163 be loosedG3089 a littleG3398 season.G5550

Rev_20:4 AndG2532 I sawG1492 thrones,G2362 andG2532 they satG2523 uponG1909 them,G846 andG2532 judgmentG2917 was givenG1325 unto them:G846 andG2532 I saw theG3588 soulsG5590 of them that were beheadedG3990 forG1223 theG3588 witnessG3141 of Jesus,G2424 andG2532 forG1223 theG3588 wordG3056 of God,G2316 andG2532 whichG3748 had notG3756 worshippedG4352 theG3588 beast,G2342 neitherG3777 hisG846 image,G1504 neitherG2532 G3756 had receivedG2983 his markG5480 uponG1909 theirG848 foreheads,G3359 orG2532 inG1909 theirG848 hands;G5495 andG2532 they livedG2198 andG2532 reignedG936 withG3326 ChristG5547 a thousandG5507 years.G2094

Rev_20:5 ButG1161 theG3588 restG3062 of theG3588 deadG3498 lived not againG326 G3756 untilG2193 theG3588 thousandG5507 yearsG2094 were finished.G5055 ThisG3778 is theG3588 firstG4413 resurrection.G386

Rev_20:6 BlessedG3107 andG2532 holyG40 is he that hathG2192 partG3313 inG1722 theG3588 firstG4413 resurrection:G386 onG1909 suchG5130 theG3588 secondG1208 deathG2288 hathG2192 noG3756 power,G1849 butG235 they shall beG2071 priestsG2409 of GodG2316 andG2532 of Christ,G5547 andG2532 shall reignG936 withG3326 himG846 a thousandG5507 years.G2094

Rev_20:7 AndG2532 whenG3752 theG3588 thousandG5507 yearsG2094 are expired,G5055 SatanG4567 shall be loosedG3089 out ofG1537 hisG846 prison,G5438

This is strong evidence that the thousand years is exactly a thousand years.

G5505 is only used for numbers 2000 and above and for a plural "thousands".


Rev_11:3 AndG2532 I will giveG1325 power unto myG3450 twoG1417 witnesses,G3144 andG2532 they shall prophesyG4395 a thousand two hundred and threescoreG5507 G1250 G1835 days,G2250 clothedG4016 in sackcloth.G4526

G5507 always means exactly one thousand like it does here. To mean more it needs to have more added to it. Here we have G5507 as exactly one thousand and then 260 added to that one thousand. Guess what? If we removed the 260 we have how many? Exactly one thousand, G5507.

So when we have G5507 alone, it is exactly one thousand. And when scripture speaks of "thousands" in the plural it uses G5505 not G5507.

Rev_5:11 AndG2532 I beheld,G1492 andG2532 I heardG191 the voiceG5456 of manyG4183 angelsG32 round aboutG2943 theG3588 throneG2362 andG2532 theG3588 beastsG2226 andG2532 theG3588 elders:G4245 andG2532 theG3588 numberG706 of themG846 wasG2258 ten thousand times ten thousand,G3461 G3461 andG2532 thousands of thousands;G5505 G5505


If Revelation 20's thousand years was thousands of years like Amillennialism claims, the word needed would be G5505 especially the double appearance of the word as found in Revelation 5:11, "thousands of thousands" which is truly an unknown amount. G5507 strictly means only one thousand and no more. It cannot mean 1001, nor an unknown number of thousands or Millions etc.
 
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DavidPT

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If Revelation 20's thousand years was thousands of years like Amillennialism claims, the word needed would be G5505 especially the double appearance of the word as found in Revelation 5:11, "thousands of thousands" which is truly an unknown amount. G5507 strictly means only one thousand and no more. It cannot mean 1001, nor an unknown number of thousands or Millions etc.


And we all know what that means if a thousand in Revelation 20 means exactly 1000. It means Amil being a possible position is zero. It also means it doesn't mean dischilioi, which apparently means about 2000(Mark 5:13), which is pretty much the amount of years Amils need the thousand years in Revelation 20 to mean. That assuming Jesus returns in our lifetimes which would be about 2000(dischilioi) years since the time He ascended. I wonder why Revelation 20 used chilioi if about 2000 years were meant instead?


Mark 5:13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand; ) and were choked in the sea.

Per Amil reasoning, a thousand(chilioi) can mean 2000, 3000, so on and so on. So why doesn't the text instead say-----and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about a thousand(chilioi); ) and were choked in the sea? If a thousand(chilioi) in Revelation 20 can mean 2000, why can't a thousand(chilioi) mean 2000 in Mark 5:13?
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Hi the events around the 1000 years such as Satan being bound at the beginning and loosed at the end and the nations being deceived than no longer being deceived until the 1000 years is over make me think it is a literal set period of time of 1000 years. The destruction of antichrist and the false prophet have them throne into the lake of fire at the 2nd coming while Satan is just bound. When the 1000 years is over one last rebellion is allowed and it end with fire coming down from heaven and then Satan is thrown where the beast and false prophet already have been. When we look at the old testament passages about the kingdom coming that has no end Daniel 7 has a pompous guy persecuting the saints for a time, times and half a time. He is destroyed when the judgment is made in favor of the saints. The pompous one like the beast is given to the flame and it says the rest of the beasts lose their dominion but have their lives prolonged for a season and time. This passage clearly shows Jesus as glorfied son of man in heaven before the ancient of day and to him, Jesus is given all dominion and the kingdom that covers the earth and has no end. The pompous one like the beast is sent to the fire but who are the beasts that lost dominion and perserved for a season and time? It seems this is Satan and other demonic principalities being bound for the season and loosed for the time of last testing. There is clearly life on earth after the LORD is king over all the earth and this kingdom has no end for at the end of the 1000 years Jesus still rules when the new creations come down.
 
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ewq1938

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I'll use an example to further explain the difference of the two words (G5505 and G5507).

5505 is like a thousand dollar bill. There is just one in your hand but it's worth a thousand dollars and the word is written in the singular because of this.

5507 is like having one thousand dollar bills. That's worth the same exact amount, but it's a plural word because there is a thousand of something rather than one thing that equals a thousand. Imagine in your left hand a thousand dollar bill, and in your right hand a thousand dollar bills. Same amount but the way each amount is represented is different.

5507 is plural in this sense, not that it means more than a thousand or multiples of thousands like 2000. That is not what the plural aspect means but that is how Amillennialism wrongly misuses it's plurality.
 
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grafted branch

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If Revelation 20's thousand years was thousands of years like Amillennialism claims, the word needed would be G5505 especially the double appearance of the word as found in Revelation 5:11, "thousands of thousands" which is truly an unknown amount. G5507 strictly means only one thousand and no more. It cannot mean 1001, nor an unknown number of thousands or Millions etc.

The case you have made about the 1000 years seems very logical and I’m not trying to argue for the amil case. But using 2 Peter 3:8 couldn’t someone hypothesize that the millennium was a 1 day event that has already happened and we are currently in the time period where Satan is loosed and deceiving the nations while the final battle in Revelation 20:8-9 is still future?

Someone could argue that 1 day occurred in Matthew 28:18-20 where Jesus said that all power was given to him and he told the disciples to teach all the nations. This hypothesis seems just as likely as a future millennium.
 
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DavidPT

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The case you have made about the 1000 years seems very logical and I’m not trying to argue for the amil case. But using 2 Peter 3:8 couldn’t someone hypothesize that the millennium was a 1 day event that has already happened and we are currently in the time period where Satan is loosed and deceiving the nations while the final battle in Revelation 20:8-9 is still future?

Someone could argue that 1 day occurred in Matthew 28:18-20 where Jesus said that all power was given to him and he told the disciples to teach all the nations. This hypothesis seems just as likely as a future millennium.


By a one day event, are you meaning as in a literal 24 hour day?

In 2 Peter 3:8, a day does not mean a 24 hour day, it means a thousand year day. It means an era of time. When this day begins and when this day ends, 24 hours haven't passed, but that 1000 years worth of 24 hour days have passed. You would then take the amount of 24 hour days in a year and multiply that by a thousand in order to know how many 24 hour days have passed since the beginning of this thousand year day to the end of this thousand year day.
 
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ewq1938

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The case you have made about the 1000 years seems very logical and I’m not trying to argue for the amil case. But using 2 Peter 3:8 couldn’t someone hypothesize that the millennium was a 1 day event that has already happened and we are currently in the time period where Satan is loosed and deceiving the nations while the final battle in Revelation 20:8-9 is still future?

No, because the first resurrection is a resurrection to immortality at the second coming and there are no immortals here. The thousand years is a Global Christian Theocracy and that hasn't been in existence in any part of history so it's definitely future.

But, I don't want to delve any more into that because this thread is only for discussing whether Revelation 20's a thousand years is a thousand years or longer than a thousand years.
 
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ewq1938

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More evidence that G5507 means exactly a thousand years:

Mar 5:13 AndG2532 forthwithG2112 JesusG2424 gave them leave.G2010 G846 AndG2532 theG3588 uncleanG169 spiritsG4151 went out,G1831 andG2532 enteredG1525 intoG1519 theG3588 swine:G5519 andG2532 theG3588 herdG34 ran violentlyG3729 downG2596 a steep placeG2911 intoG1519 theG3588 sea,G2281 (they(G1161) wereG2258 aboutG5613 two thousand; )G1367 andG2532 were chokedG4155 inG1722 theG3588 sea.G2281

Here we have a Greek word G1367 dischilioi. "dis" means two or twice and chilioi (G5507) means a thousand so this word means two thousand. Naturally then if there was one chilioi (G5507) it would be exactly a thousand just as it is in every occurrence of the word in the NT.
 
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grafted branch

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By a one day event, are you meaning as in a literal 24 hour day?

In 2 Peter 3:8, a day does not mean a 24 hour day, it means a thousand year day. It means an era of time. When this day begins and when this day ends, 24 hours haven't passed, but that 1000 years worth of 24 hour days have passed. You would then take the amount of 24 hour days in a year and multiply that by a thousand in order to know how many 24 hour days have passed since the beginning of this thousand year day to the end of this thousand year day.

I understand 2 Peter 3:8 to mean that 1 day (24 hour) with the Lord is equivalent to 1,000 years and vice versa.

I’m not sure I understand how you are interpreting that verse. Are you saying that the millennium isn’t 1,000 earth years but 360,000,000 earth years?

360 days per year X 1,000 years = 360,000 days, which is equivalent to 1 day with the Lord. Revelation 20:6 they live and reign with him 1,000 years. Since they are with the Lord, each day with him is equivalent to 360,000 24 hour days. 360,000 X 360,000 = 129,600,000,000 days or 360,000,000 years.
 
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DavidPT

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I understand 2 Peter 3:8 to mean that 1 day (24 hour) with the Lord is equivalent to 1,000 years and vice versa.

I’m not sure I understand how you are interpreting that verse. Are you saying that the millennium isn’t 1,000 earth years but 360,000,000 earth years?

360 days per year X 1,000 years = 360,000 days, which is equivalent to 1 day with the Lord. Revelation 20:6 they live and reign with him 1,000 years. Since they are with the Lord, each day with him is equivalent to 360,000 24 hour days. 360,000 X 360,000 = 129,600,000,000 days or 360,000,000 years.


Maybe we are better off just keeping math out of this, even though, unfortunately, I'm the one who initially brought math into this. So my bad on my part. But now I can see it is a distraction, rather than helpful. So let's try the following instead.


Let's use an example, but coming from our perspective.

a day with us is as 24 hours, and 24 hours as one day.

Is this example literally true or not? If it is, then the same has to be true of 2 peter 3:8 in the same way. Yet it can't be true in the same way if one is assuming a 24 hour day is meant by day in that verse. It can not literally be true that 24 hours are the same as a thousand years. But it can and is literally true if that day is not meaning a 24 hour day, but is meaning a thousand year day, IOW, a thousand years worth of 24 hour days.

For example. 500 AD to 1500 AD. That would be a thousand year day from God's perspective since it involves 1000 years. From our perspective this would not be a thousand year day if we are assuming a single 24 hour day in 2 Peter 3:8, since there is no logical way to squeeze 1000 years into a literal 24 hour day. But if we simply think of 500 AD to 1500 AD as an era of time, then from our perspective it can mean a thousand year day as well.

What about the book of Zechariah, for example? Throughout that book it mentions in that day. I would think no one would think a literal 24 hour period is meant throughout. Obviously, in that day involves eras of time. It doesn't matter how long or short these eras of time are, the point is, 'day' in the Bible doesn't always mean a literal 24 hour day everytime. Sometimes it means an era of time. And that's what it means in 2 Peter 3:8, an era of time consisting of a literal 1000 years, the same way 500 AD to 1500 AD would be consisting of a literal 1000 years. If someone then said, in regards to 500 AD to 1500 AD, in that day this happened, and the following happened later, and the following happened later after that, so on and so on, that would be the same concept as what is found in 2 Peter 3:8, because one would basically be saying that that day involved 1000 literal years, those 1000 literal years being from 500 AD to 1500 AD in this example.
 
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grafted branch

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Maybe we are better off just keeping math out of this, even though, unfortunately, I'm the one who initially brought math into this. So my bad on my part. But now I can see it is a distraction, rather than helpful. So let's try the following instead.


Let's use an example, but coming from our perspective.

a day with us is as 24 hours, and 24 hours as one day.

Is this example literally true or not? If it is, then the same has to be true of 2 peter 3:8 in the same way. Yet it can't be true in the same way if one is assuming a 24 hour day is meant by day in that verse. It can not literally be true that 24 hours are the same as a thousand years. But it can and is literally true if that day is not meaning a 24 hour day, but is meaning a thousand year day, IOW, a thousand years worth of 24 hour days.

For example. 500 AD to 1500 AD. That would be a thousand year day from God's perspective since it involves 1000 years. From our perspective this would not be a thousand year day if we are assuming a single 24 hour day in 2 Peter 3:8, since there is no logical way to squeeze 1000 years into a literal 24 hour day. But if we simply think of 500 AD to 1500 AD as an era of time, then from our perspective it can mean a thousand year day as well.

What about the book of Zechariah, for example? Throughout that book it mentions in that day. I would think no one would think a literal 24 hour period is meant throughout. Obviously, in that day involves eras of time. It doesn't matter how long or short these eras of time are, the point is, 'day' in the Bible doesn't always mean a literal 24 hour day everytime. Sometimes it means an era of time. And that's what it means in 2 Peter 3:8, an era of time consisting of a literal 1000 years, the same way 500 AD to 1500 AD would be consisting of a literal 1000 years. If someone then said, in regards to 500 AD to 1500 AD, in that day this happened, and the following happened later, and the following happened later after that, so on and so on, that would be the same concept as what is found in 2 Peter 3:8, because one would basically be saying that that day involved 1000 literal years, those 1000 literal years being from 500 AD to 1500 AD in this example.

Thanks for that explanation, I understand your view, and agree that this could be a valid interpretation.

Jeremiah 31:35-36 states that if the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars depart from the Lord, Israel will cease from being a nation before him.

Genesis 1:14-15 declares that the lights in the firmament are for dividing the day from the night, and for days and years.

It seems to me that 2 Peter 3:8 makes the assumption that this ordinance is no longer valid with the Lord. It appears to me that your explanation also would agree with this.

In your opinion does this ordinance cease to be valid with the Lord? The reason I ask this is it does have an impact on how 2 Peter 3:8 can be interpreted; which has an impact on how the 1,000 years can be understood.
 
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DavidPT

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Thanks for that explanation, I understand your view, and agree that this could be a valid interpretation.

Jeremiah 31:35-36 states that if the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars depart from the Lord, Israel will cease from being a nation before him.

Genesis 1:14-15 declares that the lights in the firmament are for dividing the day from the night, and for days and years.

It seems to me that 2 Peter 3:8 makes the assumption that this ordinance is no longer valid with the Lord. It appears to me that your explanation also would agree with this.

In your opinion does this ordinance cease to be valid with the Lord? The reason I ask this is it does have an impact on how 2 Peter 3:8 can be interpreted; which has an impact on how the 1,000 years can be understood.

Let's consider the following, for example.

Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.


Can 2 Peter 3:8 be applied here? No. These 3 days meant are obviously meaning literal 24 hour days. In 2 Peter 3:8 literal 24 hour days are not meant, because if they were meant, the text would have said---But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as 24 hours, and 24 hours as one day. Had it said that instead, then it would be applicable to Mark 8:31.

I would think the same logic applies to the passages you brought up. Nothing in 2 Peter 3:8 would be contradicting any of that, since none of those passages have anything to do with eras of time, yet at the same time do. For example---Genesis 1:14-15. Once a thousand years worth of those days come and go, that would be to God as one day. But, if only one 24 hour period has come and gone, 2 Peter 3:8 would not apply yet.

Some might argue, if a thousand years are as one day to God, wouldn't that mean 1000 year creation days are meant? I would use the same argument I used in Mark 8:31, that 2 Peter 3:8 is not applicable here. Creation day 6 proves that only 24 hour creation days can be meant. If Adam was created and formed on day 6, and that we are told he was 934 years old when he died, but that creation days are 1000 years each, what if he was created and formed at the beginning of the 6th day? Wouldn't that mean he didn't live 934 years before he died, but that he almost lived 2000 years instead? Thus a contradiction if thousand year creation days are meant.
 
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parousia70

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The Bible itself proves there is no literal, FUTURE, earthly millennium. The "evidence" is in the apostolic eschatological doctrine that prohibits any view of the "millennium" that portrays it as a future, literal, earthly epoch. A simple examination of the NT epistles shows that there is no future historical "thousand-years" period. We know this with certainty, for the apostles explicitly identified the precise timing of the resurrection, the judgment, and the New Heaven/Earth -- they all occur at the coming of Jesus Christ, thus proving that there is no literal "thousand years" that separates these events out over time.

(1) The resurrection occurs at the coming of Christ (1 Cor 15:23)

(2) The judgment occurs at the coming of Christ (2 Tim 4:1; Rev 11:15-18)

(3) The "New Heavens/Earth" occurs at the coming of Christ -- i.e., the "thief's coming," the "day of the Lord" (2 Pet 3:10/1 Thess 5:2)

These key eschatological events all occur at the precise moment of the coming of Jesus Christ. THEREFORE, as the apostles themselves understood, there is no literal, historic millennium separating them.

The popular millennialist maps separate these three eschatological events by a period of 1000 temporal, earthly years--or, in some cases, 1007 years. The bible doesn't allow it. The bible proves there is no literal earthly "millennium." Once we understand the plain truth of this, we can turn our efforts to understanding the apostolic teaching of the "thousand years" as a typological symbol--one of many in John's highly typological and symbolic vision.

What is it a Typological Symbol of?
The Thousand years is a typological reference to the length of the Davidic Monarchy, from David, the first King in the line, to Christ, the Final, and Completion/Restoration of the Line, which is a period of...

wait for it......

1000 LITERAL years!


The "Thousand years" shows that Christ fulfilled the hopes of the Davidic Monarchy that Christ would fill David's office as King (Luke 1:68-69; Acts 2:30-36; 1 Timothy 1:17; Mark 11:10; ) and restore the tabernacle of David (Acts 15:16-17) so that all the gentile nations could join in to the true worship of Jehovah. The 1000 years shows a completed Monarchy instead of the fact that the Monarchy had fallen into ruin in the 500s BC via the Babylonian captivity.

David and Christ being the only 2 Kings in the line that matter, David the type, Christ the antitype, or fulfillment.

Christ fulfilled what all other kings in the line failed to do, thus bringing completion to, and fulfilling the purpose for, the Davidic monarchy, which was the "1000 year reign".

Again, the idea of a thousand years reign with Israel's Monarchy was an Old Testament hope -- one that was wished for but failed. The hopes of this glorious reign were laid out when Solomon took the throne after David. It was said that Israel would walk in the covenant blessings, and so much so that the Gentiles would come into the covenant (such as the Queen of Sheba's homage to Solomon). However, the "tabernacle of David" began to quickly crumble, and fell into total ruin by the time of the Babylonian exile. This all summarizes an OT type. Now, fast-forward to all the NT typology about Jesus being the TRUE "son of David" who was born as THE MESSIANIC HEIR to David's throne for raising up the Monarchy. This is what Revelation 20 is doing. It is using the Davidic Monarchy typology and applying it to Christ and the martyr-kings who reign in the Christic Monarchy, and it does so in exactly the same typological sense as other types we are more familiar with (Jesus is the "sacrifical lamb," etc). In Revelation 20 we see Jesus and his tribulation-martyr-kings reign; they defeat satan; they bring in the gentiles; and they judge the world. These are all the things hoped for in the OT times, but fulfilled in Jesus Christ and the New Covenant Church. The Church has all dominion with Christ over heaven and earth, satan was defeated, the gentles are now in the covenant, and Christ and the Church are the judges of the whole world.

Amazing History.
 
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grafted branch

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Let's consider the following, for example.

Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.


Can 2 Peter 3:8 be applied here? No. These 3 days meant are obviously meaning literal 24 hour days. In 2 Peter 3:8 literal 24 hour days are not meant, because if they were meant, the text would have said---But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as 24 hours, and 24 hours as one day. Had it said that instead, then it would be applicable to Mark 8:31.

I would think the same logic applies to the passages you brought up. Nothing in 2 Peter 3:8 would be contradicting any of that, since none of those passages have anything to do with eras of time, yet at the same time do. For example---Genesis 1:14-15. Once a thousand years worth of those days come and go, that would be to God as one day. But, if only one 24 hour period has come and gone, 2 Peter 3:8 would not apply yet.

Some might argue, if a thousand years are as one day to God, wouldn't that mean 1000 year creation days are meant? I would use the same argument I used in Mark 8:31, that 2 Peter 3:8 is not applicable here. Creation day 6 proves that only 24 hour creation days can be meant. If Adam was created and formed on day 6, and that we are told he was 934 years old when he died, but that creation days are 1000 years each, what if he was created and formed at the beginning of the 6th day? Wouldn't that mean he didn't live 934 years before he died, but that he almost lived 2000 years instead? Thus a contradiction if thousand year creation days are meant.

Ok, so now it’s my turn to admit that I could have done a better job of explaining.

First off I completely agree that when we see things such as John 2:19 destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up; this is speaking of a literal 3 day period.

The point I was trying to make in Genesis 1:14-15 is that this is where we have the ordinance or statute that days are determined by the celestial movements of the sun, moon, and stars. So we could say that this is where 24 hours are considered to be a day and that this statue applies to both God and man.

When we get to Jerimiah 31:35-36 the Lord says if these ordinances depart from me then Israel will also cease from being a nation before God. The ordinance has never ceased from mankind but the question is did God ever cease from using this ordinance.

2 Peter 3:18, depending on how it’s interpreted, seems to be declaring that God no longer uses this ordinance. So I understand your view to be that an exact 1,000 years as mankind observes it is equal to 1 day as God observes it. I don’t take any issue with this interpretation; however it does require that Israel is no longer to be considered a nation at least as God is concerned.

If currently God doesn’t use the ordinance of a day being 24 hours, then we should be able to locate somewhere in the scriptures where this takes place. The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are seen by all of the commentaries I have looked at as being fulfilled by a literal 24 hour day and not a 1,000 year day. The controversy is obviously the final 7 year period. If there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week then this is where God no longer is using the ordinance.

So I would like to get your opinion on whether the ordinance of a 24 hour day is still being used by God or not.
 
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parousia70

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But using 2 Peter 3:8 couldn’t someone hypothesize that the millennium was a 1 day event that has already happened and we are currently in the time period where Satan is loosed and deceiving the nations while the final battle in Revelation 20:8-9 is still future?
Sure... absolutely equally as reasonable a hypothesis.

Peter is Clear:
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Peter is not saying the same thing Twice.

To the Lord, one of His Day's is as 1000 earth years AND 1 earth day is as 1000 years to Him..

Both are true for God is not constrained by Time.. He can make 1000 earth years seem like the passing of one day to Him, AND he can make the passing of one earth Day SEEM LIKE 1000 years to Him.

Both are true.
 
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Ok, so now it’s my turn to admit that I could have done a better job of explaining.

First off I completely agree that when we see things such as John 2:19 destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up; this is speaking of a literal 3 day period.

The point I was trying to make in Genesis 1:14-15 is that this is where we have the ordinance or statute that days are determined by the celestial movements of the sun, moon, and stars. So we could say that this is where 24 hours are considered to be a day and that this statue applies to both God and man.

I did for the most part, get your point the first time around, or at least I feel I did, but I apparently didn't explain things all that well, thus leaving one more confused than enlightened. I will be the first to admit, it's not always easy for me to express my thoughts in writing. But if these conversations were being conducted face to face and in person, even if one still disagreed with me, they would at least see exactly where I was coming from and why, since I can express my thoughts in that manner better than I can in writing.

To try and answer your point in the last sentence of the 3rd paragraph above---Yet it does apply to both God and man. Passages like Mark 8:31 prove it. From God's pov, that involved literal 24 hour days as well. God didn't see a thousand years pass each time one of those days concluded, He saw 24 hours pass each time, the same way they back then did. How could He have not? Even though God is outside of time, there are plenty examples where God communicated with man in real time. How could He do that unless He is in this same space of time at the time that these that He is communicating with at the time are?
 
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grafted branch

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I did for the most part, get your point the first time around, or at least I feel I did, but I apparently didn't explain things all that well, thus leaving one more confused than enlightened. I will be the first to admit, it's not always easy for me to express my thoughts in writing. But if these conversations were being conducted face to face and in person, even if one still disagreed with me, they would at least see exactly where I was coming from and why, since I can express my thoughts in that manner better than I can in writing.

To try and answer your point in the last sentence of the 3rd paragraph above---Yet it does apply to both God and man. Passages like Mark 8:31 prove it. From God's pov, that involved literal 24 hour days as well. God didn't see a thousand years pass each time one of those days concluded, He saw 24 hours pass each time, the same way they back then did. How could He have not? Even though God is outside of time, there are plenty examples where God communicated with man in real time. How could He do that unless He is in this same space of time at the time that these that He is communicating with at the time are?

So I get that Mark 8:31 is meant in the literal sense and we agree that God transcends time. I have been trying to examine 2 Peter 3:18 and the 1,000 years from a literal stand point because I thought that is what this thread was implying. So is there more than 1 meaning implied by 2 Peter 3:18? And if it’s only to be taken in the literal sense then what application does it have in the scriptures?
 
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But using 2 Peter 3:8 couldn’t someone hypothesize that the millennium was a 1 day event that has already happened

Only if it’s taken out of context. Their first challenge is to prove that verse contains a formula for interpreting prophetic time periods. Since it’s a passage that has one intended reason for being written, it’s unlikely anything beyond a simple-minded interpretation could ever be regarded as proof.
 
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grafted branch

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Only if it’s taken out of context. Their first challenge is to prove that verse contains a formula for interpreting prophetic time periods. Since it’s a passage that has one intended reason for being written, it’s unlikely anything beyond a simple-minded interpretation could ever be regarded as proof.

I agree with your assessment of 2 Peter 3:18, that it should be a simple minded interpretation. As you said the context of the verse is important, which is that some people were thinking that the Lord is slack concerning the day of the Lord. That day is described in verse 10. There are various views on when the day of the Lord occurs and what it is but if a literal view is taken of the 1,000 years being equal to 1 day then Peter is giving us a means by which we can calculate when the day of the Lord will happen.

The simple minded interpretation, that Peter is just saying that no one knows when the day of the Lord will occur but it certainly will occur, is the way I see this verse and that the 1,000 years isn’t meant to be literal.

I tried to look at this verse and hypothesize it from a literal point of view because that’s what was being implied by the OP.
 
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ewq1938

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The simple minded interpretation, that Peter is just saying that no one knows when the day of the Lord will occur but it certainly will occur, is the way I see this verse and that the 1,000 years isn’t meant to be literal.

A literal day is compared to a literal thousand years as how time is experienced by God and those with him. God is not saying one day (only one literal day not more) is like 2000 or 10,000 years etc. Some think the thousand years to be a larger number but that is not how God uses it. He compares one day with a thousand years but does not change either amount of time.
 
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