Signs of the Times

Gary K

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The Bible says an economic collapse will happen in the last days that will be so bad that the only people allowed to buy and sell will be those who agree to the mark oif the beast. The following video by a leading Swiss economist and owner of a gold vault for private individuals speaks to the condition of the world wide financial systems. He is saying that the collapse of the entire financial system is upon us. And he is saying it was upon us before the coronavirus.

 
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We know from the Bible alone that the government of the world will be a one world government that is totalitarian in nature. One feature of totalitarianism is that of surveillance total surveillance.

Here is an article on how a journalist had every move he made online tracked by, most likely, his own government. This technology is pretty scary because this can be done by any government to anyone at any time and the individual has no defense against it. We already know for a fact that the NSA captures all computer network traffic so it is set up already to do this.

The white iPhone with chipped paint that Moroccan journalist Omar Radi used to stay in contact with his sources also allowed his government to spy on him.

They could read every email, text and website visited; listen to every phone call and watch every video conference; download calendar entries, monitor GPS coordinates, and even turn on the camera and microphone to see and hear where the phone was at any moment.

Yet Radi was trained in encryption and cyber security. He hadn’t clicked on any suspicious links and didn’t have any missed calls on WhatsApp — both well-documented ways a cell phone can be hacked.

Instead, a report published Monday by Amnesty International shows Radi was targeted by a new and frighteningly stealthy technique. All he had to do was visit one website. Any website.

Forensic evidence gathered by Amnesty International on Radi’s phone shows that it was infected by “network injection,” a fully automated method where an attacker intercepts a cellular signal when it makes a request to visit a website. In milliseconds, the web browser is diverted to a malicious site and spyware code is downloaded that allows remote access to everything on the phone. The browser then redirects to the intended website and the user is none the wiser.

While Amnesty could not definitively state that the Moroccan authorities were behind the attack, the group was able to use forensic evidence to conclude this was very likely the case.

The rest of this article can be found here.

What happened to this journalist has most likely been done to most people already the only reason this journalist found out is because an organization with lots of technical resources got involved. If Morocco is capable of these types of hacks, then think what can be done to your computer by a non-third world nation. This is evidence of current total surveillance on a world wide basis.
 
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Cshuffle777

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The Bible says an economic collapse will happen in the last days that will be so bad that the only people allowed to buy and sell will be those who agree to the mark oif the beast.
Where does It say that?
 
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Cshuffle777

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In Revelation we find the following prophecy concerning the end times.


What is going on today with respect to this prophecy? Here's an article from Brietbart about exactly this scenario.

The rest of this article can be found here.

It appears the Democrats are actively fighting against anything that would stop a social credit scoring system from being implemented that could be used to rate people within the financial system according to their religious and political beliefs.

Anyone surprised at this invasion of liberty by the Democrats?
When liberty of conscience is finally threatened in the enforcement of the mark of the beast the democrats will be a slight but distinguishable step behind the republicans in acquiescing.

That is, unless the world lasts long enough for there to be another swap in ideals between the 2 parties, which I doubt. And what with the final movements being prophesied to be rapid ones, things are changing so fast now that I don't see how the earth can groan and travail much more until it gives way.
 
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Gary K

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Approximately a couple of years ago Mark Skidmore, an economist, PHD professor, and an expert in public finance, trying to disprove that the US army was missing $6.5 trillion found that not only was that true, but he ended up proving that the US government was missing $21 trillion out of just 2 departments of government. Why just two? Because those two departments were the only two that were actually being transparent with their financial reports.

Skidmore has come back with an update. He filed a FOIA request from the Army, as it was one of the two departments proven to have spent much more money than their budget limitations. In that FOIA request he found documents that say that when the Army's yearly budget was $122 billion they actually had undocumented adjustments that same year that wrote off $160 billion of spending. Think about that. They hid more unauthorized spending than their entire budget for that year. That is fraud on an unbelievable scale.

What Skidmore has found in looking at the government's ongoing refinancing of all of our debt that there is a lot of evidence pointing to the government refinancing $90 trillion in debt a year. That means our debt if far larger than the reported debt plus the missing $21 trillion that is known to be missing.



Ellen White tells us that our nation will abandon our Constitution at the time of the end. Now you non-SDA's can disbelieve that prophecy, but here is solid evidence that this is being done right now. When this is being done along with the "temporary" massive suspension Constitutional rights with the coronavirus as the excuse, and all the rest of the efforts to get rid of the 1st amendment, this tells me that Jesus' 2nd coming can not be very far off.
 
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Where does It say that?

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

It is very apparent that this is totalitarianism and on a global scale for John uses all inclusive terminology when he describes the extent of the power of the image of the beast. This is global scale totalitarianism.
 
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When liberty of conscience is finally threatened in the enforcement of the mark of the beast the democrats will be a slight but distinguishable step behind the republicans in acquiescing.

That is, unless the world lasts long enough for there to be another swap in ideals between the 2 parties, which I doubt. And what with the final movements being prophesied to be rapid ones, things are changing so fast now that I don't see how the earth can groan and travail much more until it gives way.
I doubt your conclusions as it is the Democrats who are leading the charge to destroy the Constitution. They are fully in support of the violence going on right now. And BLM is set up so that money donated to them is funneled directly to the Democrats. It's in violation of campaign financing laws, but since when have the Democrats ever been held accountable for the fraud they commit in the last few years.
 
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Cshuffle777

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Ellen White tells us that our nation will abandon our Constitution at the time of the end.
I believe that while Mrs. White's prophecy is no doubt sure, the organic manner in which this has taken place is truly astonishing. It is so masterful a strategy of Satan's that it makes me want to double up on my prayer-time until I have no time for anything else. I suppose it is natural for one created being to more closely trace the workings of others than that of the Sovereign of the universe. And, after all, man is said to have been created only a little lower than the angels.

But I have long predicted that with the clamoring for "rights" (however legitimate many of them may be) at every turn over the last century in America, and the gratuitous granting of these rights to every cause which presents itself will result in a sort of "rights inflation," so to speak, making them ultimately worthless like so much hoarded currency and, in turn, the very document which assures them.

I believe this is what we are witnessing now.
 
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It is very apparent that this is totalitarianism and on a global scale for John uses all inclusive terminology when he describes the extent of the power of the image of the beast. This is global scale totalitarianism.
The "economic collapse" part is missing entirely from your Bible quote. Mrs. White says that just before the end, the earth will be involved in general ruin. There is no place in the Bible or the Spirit Of Prophecy that indicates the disaster(s) which bring about the enforcement of Sunday-keeping will be caused by economic or political influence. On the contrary, they point to religious powers bearing down upon the state to pull us from the brink by appeasing God with the keeping of the spurious sabbath. Do you deny this? If so, and you are correct, I have been completely on the wrong track for nearly 50 years. I am gladly willing to be corrected by the Bible and SOP.
 
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The "economic collapse" part is missing entirely from your Bible quote. Mrs. White says that just before the end, the earth will be involved in general ruin. There is no place in the Bible or the Spirit Of Prophecy that indicates the disaster(s) which bring about the enforcement of Sunday-keeping will be caused by economic or political influence. On the contrary, they point to religious powers bearing down upon the state to pull us from the brink by appeasing God with the keeping of the spurious sabbath. Do you deny this? If so, and you are correct, I have been completely on the wrong track for nearly 50 years. I am gladly willing to be corrected by the Bible and SOP.

I agree with what she says. However, just like the prophecies concerning the Messiah a lot of details were left out of her prophecies and the Biblical prophecies of the end times. Did the prophecies of the Messiah say that the Sanhedrin would work with the current worldwide power to crucify Jesus? Nope. Did those prophecies say that the desire of the priests and rulers to hold onto their wealth and power structure would be a major factor in the rejection of Jesus? Nope. But that is exactly what happened. Why would you think things will be different this time?

We look back on Jesus' death and it makes perfect sense to us in hindsight that those things happened. But were they specifically prophesied? Nope.

We have a movement right now that is hard at work to destroy our Constitution and it is fully supported by global organizations like the UN. UN reps have actually come out and said that preachers need to speak on only what the UN tells them to say. They shouldn't follow the Bible, they should follow the UN. Most SDAs have believed that the Republicans are the nasty party. Well, look at what is going on in our world today. Which party is setting the stage for Sunday laws with all the lawlessness, violence, destruction of our economy, and the restricting of liberty? The Democrats. They are wholeheartedly pushing the UN agenda.

We don't know how things will work out exactly from Ellen White's prophecies. We know the end point, but we do not know what exactly leads to them. So when we see the evidence of what she said specifically would happen, the abandoning of the Constitution as being the point to watch for, is it wise to ignore all the events that point towards the Constitution being done away with and what all is coming along with that? Ellen White just tells us that there will be big time problems in the world and that the final decision will be made because of all the ills in our society. So what is the source of all those ills? Oh, we know the devil is behind all of this, but his will is going to be carried out by his servants. So who is pushing the immorality? Who is fully behind it? Who has papers out on destroying libery, and lives? Remember, Jesus said if God doesn't cut things short in righteousness that all flesh would perish. Isn't that where we are headed right now?
 
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Cshuffle777

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I agree with what she says. However, just like the prophecies concerning the Messiah a lot of details were left out of her prophecies and the Biblical prophecies of the end times. Did the prophecies of the Messiah say that the Sanhedrin would work with the current worldwide power to crucify Jesus? Nope. Did those prophecies say that the desire of the priests and rulers to hold onto their wealth and power structure would be a major factor in the rejection of Jesus? Nope. But that is exactly what happened. Why would you think things will be different this time?

We look back on Jesus' death and it makes perfect sense to us in hindsight that those things happened. But were they specifically prophesied? Nope.

We have a movement right now that is hard at work to destroy our Constitution and it is fully supported by global organizations like the UN. UN reps have actually come out and said that preachers need to speak on only what the UN tells them to say. They shouldn't follow the Bible, they should follow the UN. Most SDAs have believed that the Republicans are the nasty party. Well, look at what is going on in our world today. Which party is setting the stage for Sunday laws with all the lawlessness, violence, destruction of our economy, and the restricting of liberty? The Democrats. They are wholeheartedly pushing the UN agenda.

We don't know how things will work out exactly from Ellen White's prophecies. We know the end point, but we do not know what exactly leads to them. So when we see the evidence of what she said specifically would happen, the abandoning of the Constitution as being the point to watch for, is it wise to ignore all the events that point towards the Constitution being done away with and what all is coming along with that? Ellen White just tells us that there will be big time problems in the world and that the final decision will be made because of all the ills in our society. So what is the source of all those ills? Oh, we know the devil is behind all of this, but his will is going to be carried out by his servants. So who is pushing the immorality? Who is fully behind it? Who has papers out on destroying libery, and lives? Remember, Jesus said if God doesn't cut things short in righteousness that all flesh would perish. Isn't that where we are headed right now?
You just made my point and then swerved and spun.
Believe what you like. Our message is Christ and Him crucified, and the three angels' messages.

"The Lord would have His people bury political questions. On these themes silence is eloquence. Christ calls upon His followers to come into unity on the pure gospel principles which are plainly revealed in the word of God. We cannot with safety vote for political parties; for we do not know whom we are voting for. We cannot with safety take part in any political scheme.

Those who are Christians indeed will be branches of the true vine, and will bear the same fruit as the vine. They will act in harmony, in Christian fellowship. They will not wear political badges, but the badge of Christ.

What are we to do, then?—Let political questions alone.

Those teachers in the church or in the school who distinguish themselves by their zeal in politics, should be relieved of their work and responsibilities without delay; for the Lord will not co-operate with them. The tithe should not be used to pay any one for speechifying on political questions. Every teacher, minister, or leader in our ranks who is stirred with a desire to ventilate his opinions on political questions, should be converted by a belief in the truth, or give up his work. His influence must tell as a laborer together with God in winning souls to Christ, or his credentials must be taken from him. If he does not change, he will do harm, and only harm...."
(Gospel Workers, pp. 391-393)


And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly: Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no? But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me? Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's. And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.
(Luke 20:21-26)

Christ is our example in all things. And He is apolitical.
 
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Gary K

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The "economic collapse" part is missing entirely from your Bible quote. Mrs. White says that just before the end, the earth will be involved in general ruin. There is no place in the Bible or the Spirit Of Prophecy that indicates the disaster(s) which bring about the enforcement of Sunday-keeping will be caused by economic or political influence. On the contrary, they point to religious powers bearing down upon the state to pull us from the brink by appeasing God with the keeping of the spurious sabbath. Do you deny this? If so, and you are correct, I have been completely on the wrong track for nearly 50 years. I am gladly willing to be corrected by the Bible and SOP.

What comes with a "general ruin"? If a nation is brought low by catastrophes what happens to it's economy? An economic collapse. What happens if the world is in general ruins? A world wide economic collapse. Or can it be the other way around? If the economies of the world collapse what will the world be like? There will be mass starvation, and the general infrastructures of the nations of the world will disintegrate. Our systems of transportation will go down. The cities, remember what Ellen White says about them, will be in ruins because of the violence created by people desiring not to starve and the loss of the citiy's tax base.

Gangs will run amok when no food is available. Right now people are fleeing the big cities in droves. If they have the money to move, to get away from what's going on there right now, they are moving to the country--to small towns and far less population density. I saw a statistic the other day that 50% of US homeowners are thinking seriously about selling their homes. Think what that will do to the tax base of the big cities? They will become like Venezuelan cities with trash piled on the corners because the cities will not have the money to pay for garbage disposal. A big share of their tax base will be gone and only those too poor to move will be left. The poor are not a good tax base to support what it takes to keep a large city up and running. The police, or what's left of them the way things are going, will not be able to suppress the violence and destruction.

Do you have any idea of what kind of debt the world has? The last time I looked it up it was at $450 trillion. How much of a nudge would it take to completely collapse the world wide economy? Especially as most of the world's economy is now shut down and debt is growing like weeds. Do you really think an economic collapse of this proportion would not place the world in "general ruin". Ellen White was not an economist. She looked at the world in purely spiritual terms. Could she have imagined a US in which 3/4 of US citizens are dead broke and can't pay their bills? And that the government itself is dead broke and balancing on a knife edge as far as economics and monetary systems go? In the last couple of months alone the number of payments to banks not being made is more than $100 million. People just don't have the money to pay their bills.

Do you understand that the US banking system was broke before the coronavirus hit? That's right the banks didn't have the money to pay their overnight debts. That's why the FED was doing what are euphamisticly called "repos". It's actually the FED giving enough money to the banks to keep them going bankrupt over night. And now the FED as said the banks don't have to have any reserve to pay back depositors. They didn't have enough to pay back depositors to begin with because of fractional reserve policies by the FED. Now the FED has just said, forget the people who have money deposited in the banks.

How do you lock people out of the financial system completely? Remember the Bible says this will happen. It requires a completely electronic banking system. And what has the FED been pushing? A completely cashless society. Yeah, just exactly what the Bible said would happen. A way to completely lock out anyone who will not agree with the mark of the beast. In a world in which cash is available along with silver and gold a person can still buy and sell even if they are outside the system. When the entire financial system is controlled through computers that is not possible.

Prophecy is being fulfilled at a fantastic rate. Conditions like these have never existed on earth before, and what's more we are living in a system that was unthinkable even 10 or 20 years ago. Now, if all this comes down even the way I describe there will be a big move away from big government, i.e. socialism, a completely Godless system, the thinking people will be looking for a way to change all the immorality, the destruction of the economy, the general ruin of the nation and the world. To what would they turn? To the opposite of what they see. If you understand even a small part of the cultural divide now in place in this nation, and world wide, the only way for humans to change things is through legal force. Thus the laws to enforce morality and church going. And right there you have Sunday laws as SDAs are mighty unpopular these days it isn't hard to see people's attitudes towards anyone they see resisting the changes needed. The world has gone to system which is human centric, so anyone acting in a God-centric manner will be the enemy.

Anyway, that is how I see this coming down. It's in complete agreement with the Bible and the SOP. I'm just looking at facts that Ellen White didn't have, and that John the Revelator didn't have. They couldn't have had the same type of info. It's just like when Jesus was here. The prophets would have given anything to see His day and seen further into what God had allowed them to see.

Could you have imagined that all the world's economies would have been shut down for another version of the flu? That's just what has happened. The death rate from the coronavirus, even with the deliberate killing of a lot of elderly people is actually lower than with some previous types of the flu. A research published a paper the other day saying the death rate from the coronavirus is .4%. That's less than the flu, only the media won't tell us that and they constantly push fear at us. Every day we're hit with the sky is falling routine over the coronavirus.
 
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Gary K

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You just made my point and then swerved and spun.
Believe what you like. Our message is Christ and Him crucified, and the three angels' messages.

"The Lord would have His people bury political questions. On these themes silence is eloquence. Christ calls upon His followers to come into unity on the pure gospel principles which are plainly revealed in the word of God. We cannot with safety vote for political parties; for we do not know whom we are voting for. We cannot with safety take part in any political scheme.

Those who are Christians indeed will be branches of the true vine, and will bear the same fruit as the vine. They will act in harmony, in Christian fellowship. They will not wear political badges, but the badge of Christ.

What are we to do, then?—Let political questions alone.

Those teachers in the church or in the school who distinguish themselves by their zeal in politics, should be relieved of their work and responsibilities without delay; for the Lord will not co-operate with them. The tithe should not be used to pay any one for speechifying on political questions. Every teacher, minister, or leader in our ranks who is stirred with a desire to ventilate his opinions on political questions, should be converted by a belief in the truth, or give up his work. His influence must tell as a laborer together with God in winning souls to Christ, or his credentials must be taken from him. If he does not change, he will do harm, and only harm...."
(Gospel Workers, pp. 391-393)


And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly: Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no? But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me? Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's. And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.
(Luke 20:21-26)

Christ is our example in all things. And He is apolitical.

Did politics not play any part in what happened to Jesus? Did He not expose the politicians of His day? What was it John the Baptist did? Oh, he condemned Herod of having an affair with his brother's wife? Do you think that wasn't political in that day? Didn't Jesus identify Herod as a "fox"? Think that wasn't political?

And what about Ellen White counseling SDAs to get into the battle over Prohibition? You think that battle wasn't political? Methinks you misunderstand her counsel on an overall basis. She didn't distance herself from all political issues. Not by a long shot.

I once agreed with you 100%. But how does a person distance himself from all the immorality, the assault on liberty, that is going on and still look at himself in the mirror? How can we live with ourselves and not warn people against it decidely? Ellen White counseled us to fight for liberty to the very end. We are not to just stand by and leave all the corruption unchallenged and not rebuked. That is failing to stand for truth and what is right. And God condemns that very explicitly as does Ellen White. That's what both Jesus and John the Baptist did. They condemned the corruption of the day as did Paul. Are we not to follow in Jesus' footsteps?
 
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Cshuffle777

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Methinks you misunderstand her counsel on an overall basis.
And methinks thou dost protest too much against a philosophy that is not economi/politi-centric.

If I have ultimately misunderstood her counsel overall, then I don't have much time to correct it, do I?

Again, believe what you like, but in your magnum opus post #33 you mentioned the Person of God exactly -0- times and you still haven't clarified your "The Bible says an economic collapse will happen in the last days that will be so bad that the only people allowed to buy and sell will be those who agree to the mark of the beast" statement. But perhaps that is because the Bible says no such thing. And it seems obvious enough to me that the economy will at least be robust enough to support a war machine capable of enforcing a worldwide Sunday law decree.

The observation that economic collapse is imminent (which seems inescapable barring a miracle--which still occur, btw) is merely recognizing a symptom of the disease of sin in the form of theft and covetousness. As a wise man once said: "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing." To him who hath an ear, let him hear.

Let the Baptists and the Pentecostals specialize in rebuking common vice. I am a Seventh-day Adventist Protestant. The Papacy is on the rise aboard the ecologism/humanism wave. I'll stick to my job of exposing that. Wall Street and Pennsylvania Ave. are no place for me.

I sincerely believe there is nothing I can do about the things you're emphasizing here. I pay my tithe and my bills and I help people when I can, sometimes even when it leaves me short to do so, but the Lord has never failed to provide.

The Democrats are content to fund the slaughter of innocent, developing babes by the millions, and the Republicans stand by and whine and do nothing to stop it so they can keep their guns and money. It all disgusts me. I voted Independent once (against my conscience) just to see if it would help a movement to build an alternative to the partisan system. If Mrs. White could have foreseen the Prohibition debacle and how it bred untold evil beyond all that came before it she would never have supported it. But then, again, she is not our example, is she?

I believe Ellen White's counsel overall could have been boiled down (if necessary) to "Steps To Christ." Much like the Bible in one respect: If it had been heeded, none of the other stuff would have been needed. To whittle the thing down even further: If only the Edenic pair could just have left that one tree alone, eh?

By the way, when did Christ "expose the politicians of His day?"
 
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And methinks thou dost protest too much against a philosophy that is not economi/politi-centric.

If I have ultimately misunderstood her counsel overall, then I don't have much time to correct it, do I?

Again, believe what you like, but in your magnum opus post #33 you mentioned the Person of God exactly -0- times and you still haven't clarified your "The Bible says an economic collapse will happen in the last days that will be so bad that the only people allowed to buy and sell will be those who agree to the mark of the beast" statement. But perhaps that is because the Bible says no such thing. And it seems obvious enough to me that the economy will at least be robust enough to support a war machine capable of enforcing a worldwide Sunday law decree.

The observation that economic collapse is imminent (which seems inescapable barring a miracle--which still occur, btw) is merely recognizing a symptom of the disease of sin in the form of theft and covetousness. As a wise man once said: "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing." To him who hath an ear, let him hear.

Let the Baptists and the Pentecostals specialize in rebuking common vice. I am a Seventh-day Adventist Protestant. The Papacy is on the rise aboard the ecologism/humanism wave. I'll stick to my job of exposing that. Wall Street and Pennsylvania Ave. are no place for me.

I sincerely believe there is nothing I can do about the things you're emphasizing here. I pay my tithe and my bills and I help people when I can, sometimes even when it leaves me short to do so, but the Lord has never failed to provide.

The Democrats are content to fund the slaughter of innocent, developing babes by the millions, and the Republicans stand by and whine and do nothing to stop it so they can keep their guns and money. It all disgusts me. I voted Independent once (against my conscience) just to see if it would help a movement to build an alternative to the partisan system. If Mrs. White could have foreseen the Prohibition debacle and how it bred untold evil beyond all that came before it she would never have supported it. But then, again, she is not our example, is she?

I believe Ellen White's counsel overall could have been boiled down (if necessary) to "Steps To Christ." Much like the Bible in one respect: If it had been heeded, none of the other stuff would have been needed. To whittle the thing down even further: If only the Edenic pair could just have left that one tree alone, eh?

By the way, when did Christ "expose the politicians of His day?"

Thanks for the reply. What I will do is answer different parts of your post with a post of mine. I'll start with your last question.

He most certainly did. The Pharisees and Sadducees were the Jewish politicians of their day as they were the Jewish political body of the day, the Sanhedrin. The Sanhedrin was the most powerful Jewish political body of Jesus' day.

Just to let you know this is a quite lengthy quote from scripture.

John 8: 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 ¶There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36 ¶But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 ¶Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 21:33 ¶Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Matthew 23: 13 ¶But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 ¶Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

It's pretty plain that Jesus completely exposed the politicians of His day. He left them no place to hide. He exposed their characters by shining a very powerful spotlight of truth upon them.
 
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Gary K

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Again, believe what you like, but in your magnum opus post #33 you mentioned the Person of God exactly -0- times and you still haven't clarified your "The Bible says an economic collapse will happen in the last days that will be so bad that the only people allowed to buy and sell will be those who agree to the mark of the beast" statement. But perhaps that is because the Bible says no such thing. And it seems obvious enough to me that the economy will at least be robust enough to support a war machine capable of enforcing a worldwide Sunday law decree.

So, in speaking to the actions of those who hate God I am to bring up God's name? What relationship is there with God when a group of people who are dedicated to wiping out liberty, bringing all manner of moral perversions before the public and saying you must agree with these things or you are evil and need to be shunned in society. They are dedicated to calling good evil and evil good, and desire enforcing that philosophy upon everyone else. What need is there of bringing up God's name in that context when it ought to be clear to any Christian what side of the fence between good and evil those people reside? I don't get your point at all. Why would I bring up God's name when explaining what I see of their modus operandi?

What kind of emergency/crisis would you need to bring to pass to create, and put in place, a system of such power and control that the powers that be can control every aspect of everyone's life? What kind of crisis would you need to make people give up cash which they can spend anonymously? This type of system change would require a world wide economic collapse with all the horrors a complete economic collapse brings with it to get people to agree to a need for it. It's a form of out and out slavery and a lot of people would have great objections to it. Yet the Bible says a total control of the monetary system will be in place. The beast, or the image to the beast, will be in control of all financial resources.

Re-read Revelation 13:11-16 and see if it says that it is the beast power or the image of the beast power that is in control of the world at this time? What is an image to the beast? Is not it a power that acts with the same desire to have control and power like the beast power did? It's very easy to conflate the two systems. It acts the same just like the beast--lust for power and control--but it is a copy of it. Remember that we now have a pope in place that is by inclination and political ideology a Marxist/socialist.

If you study history of the Reformation during Huss' day and Martin Luther's day the beast power had almost complete economic power. If they would have had computer systems to control the monetary system of that day the Reformation would have been orders of magnitude more difficult for the church would have easily attempted to starve all their opponents to death. The way the monetary system worked back then control over the flow of financial resources was orders of magnitude more difficult.
 
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Cshuffle777

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I don't get your point at all.
Clearly
What kind of emergency/crisis would you need to bring to pass to create, and put in place, a system of such power and control that the powers that be can control every aspect of everyone's life?
You're asking me to speculate about something which God has not seen fit to reveal. Theories abound, of course, but the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus are not the Federal Reserve. Believe what you like.
What is an image to the beast?
"When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result." {GC 445.1}
Doesn't sound very financial
 
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Gary K

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If that's the story you're going with it's okay by me.
Any body of rulers that has civil powers is a political body. The Sanhedrin was the organization that dealt with the Romans and the surrounding nations on political matters. That means they were politicians as well as religious leaders.

The preaching of John had taken so deep a hold on the nation as to demand the attention of the religious authorities. The danger of insurrection caused every popular gathering to be looked upon with suspicion by the Romans, and whatever pointed toward an uprising of the people excited the fears of the Jewish rulers. John had not recognized the authority of the Sanhedrin by seeking their sanction for his work; and he had reproved rulers and people, Pharisees and Sadducees alike. Yet the people followed him eagerly. The interest in his work seemed to be continually increasing. Though he had not deferred to them, the Sanhedrin accounted that, as a public teacher, he was under their jurisdiction. {DA 132.2}
This body was made up of members chosen from the priesthood, and from the chief rulers and teachers of the nation. The high priest was usually the president. All its members were to be men advanced in years, though not aged; men of learning, not only versed in Jewish religion and history, but in general knowledge. They were to be without physical blemish, and must be married men, and fathers, as being more likely than others to be humane and considerate. Their place of meeting was an apartment connected with the temple at Jerusalem. In the days of Jewish independence the Sanhedrin was the supreme court of the nation, possessing secular as well as ecclesiastical authority. Though now subordinated by the Roman governors, it still exercised a strong influence in civil as well as religious matters. {DA 133.1}

Civil authority is political authority. Secular authority is also political authority. The people who wield political authority are politicians.

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 (gcide)
Politician Pol`i*ti"cian, n. [Cf. F. politicien.]
[1913 Webster]
1. One versed or experienced in the science of government;
one devoted to politics; a statesman.
[1913 Webster]

WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) (wn)
politician
n 1: a leader engaged in civil administration

After the death of Stephen, Saul was elected a member of the Sanhedrin council in consideration of the part he had acted on that occasion. {AA 102.1
 
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