Controversial issue. Need genuine advice

hedrick · Mar 21, 2020

CF rules don't permit discussion of that topic in this forum. There's a liberal forum in the section on Faith Groups (it's called Whosoever Will May Come) where it can be asked.

rebornfree · Mar 21, 2020

So too does Jesus love them, much more than any of us could. He gave His life for them, as He did for the rest of us. (John 3 v 16) He know the hairs of their heads, what they think, where they go, what they had for breakfast that morning - every detail of their lives. And while the sinful part must distress Him (as with heterosexuals too) He longs for them to turn to Him. I believe the reason things are sinful is that they are not good for us, and if we love people we want the best for them. Jesus wants the very best for us, so He want us to turn away from those things which destroy us and come to Him.

I don't know why some Christians say such horrible things about homosexuals, who have a burden the rest of us don't have to bear. We can never say wrong is right, but we have to acknowledge that we have sinned too, albeit in different ways, and draw people to the Lord who has sacrificed Himself for us and longs for them to be saved too.

HTH

dcalling · Mar 21, 2020

Just pray for her, since we are only messengers and the one who does the work is the Holy Spirit, without it we are all blind, thinking back that I was very suborn too, and just can't see for a long time.

Also remember try not to get angry, as love covers a lot of sin. My parents are almost in the same boat as your daughter, very hard to convince them even though to you and me it is plain and simple.

Also when she is calm, remind her that we are all sinners, even us Christians. The bigger sins are idols, lies, murder (hate), adulatory (look with lust), covet, dishonoring your parents... homosexuality didn't even make the 10 most important list, somehow today it is like the biggest thing when people are up in arms against Christianity.

Qwertyui0p · Mar 21, 2020

Tell her that something done in the name of Christianity isn't necessarily condoned by the Bible. This might help: If you're gay, I want you to know that I don't hate you
And also Five reasons to believe Jesus rose from the dead - Adam4d.com

hedrick · Mar 21, 2020

That’s not the issue. Generally gays are aware that Christians don’t personally hate them. Their concern is the claim that God will throw them in hell unless they change (which, with some evidence, they don’t think they can do). No matter how upbeat and loving you are, it’s that message that is the issue.

Of course if all non celibate gays really are condemned to hell, there’s not much you can do. But many Christians and ex Christians believe this is wrong. There are surely people who will return to the traditional belief with the approaches suggested by many here here. But once someone has gotten to know gays and sees them as at least as good as the Christians they know, or perhaps that the description in Rom 1 doesn’t fit them, this approach is unlikely to work. From the OPs description I think her daughter is like that.

Gregory Thompson · Mar 22, 2020

In the bible it says by faith we believe that God created everything, and that we cannot come to Him unless we believe that He is, and that he rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

The point that comes to me when reading your post is that faith or trust in God is what is needed here as a foundation. The carnal mind or the mind that is in the physical body always comes to the above same conclusions when presented with the evidence of history. The change only comes with faith, thus pray so she hears the voice of God.

So her faith is based not on the I was, but the I am.

Bruce Leiter · Mar 22, 2020

I would agree that "Christians" and "churches" who reject children because they're leading an unbiblical lifestyle are clearly wrong. I would lead her to passages like Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, where he calls us to love our enemies, his parable of the Good Samaritan, and to other passages about love (1 Cor. 13 also comes to mind). Others come to mind about our need to avoid judging and condemning people (Matthew 7).

I would gently share with her that the fact that Christians and churches act in unloving ways doesn't mean that the Bible is false and merely a human document. It just shows that humans, even professing Christians, often react against human sins in extreme ways.

On the other hand, the Bible is clear that the homosexual lifestyle is a sin (for example, Romans 1:18-32). The person with such tendencies and temptations is called to repent and live a celebate life or to marry a person of the opposite sex. I don't believe that homosexuality is genetic, but there is a certain age when children wonder about their gender. Sometimes, they react to abuse or other traumatic event to choose a different gender than their biological one.

Getting back to churches' approaches to homosexuals, we need to patiently and gently work with such young people with the Bible's teachings as the basis to teach them God's teachings about this matter instead of summarily rejecting them. And the Bible's inspiration is clearly shown in 2 Peter 1 and 2 Timothy 3. You can also point to other passages showing the Bible's accurate accounts of Jesus' life. For example, Jesus preached a message to the two followers on their way to Emmaus and confirmed his high opinion about the Old Testament's pointing to Jesus (Luke 24:25-27).

ZNP · Mar 22, 2020

I would recommend watching the movie about Mr. Roger's Neighborhood. One of the actors on the set was a homosexual. Mr. Rogers was an ordained minister and the TV show was a Christian ministry. Mr. Rogers was condemned by some Christians for a number of things. I think if she sees this she'll realize that there are a wide range of people who claim to be Christian. I think it is hard for anyone to not see Mr. Rodgers ministry as a work of faith, and yet almost all of the attack against him came from Christians.

hedrick · Mar 22, 2020

But there's a wider issue. Why be a Christian? Rodney Stark has done an interesting review of why Christianity spread in the Roman empire. It seems like it was obviously good news: it replaced fate or quarreling gods with a loving God, provided alternatives for women, and did an unusual and visible job in helping with epidemics. Of course Christianity has supernatural aspects. It asserts that there's a supernatural God who sent his son. But that kind of claim is probably only credible if the life that comes out of that looks like an advance over the normal human culture. I mean if a loving God has actually intervened in our life, the effect of his intervention should be visible and visibly good news.

In my opinion a lot of the problem with young adults in the US is that what comes out of Christianity looks more like remnants of traditional culture than something better than our surrounding culture. Of course this impression depends a lot upon both the type of Christianity and the part of the country and subculture outside the Church.

The good news in the Roman culture was compared to the actual surrounding culture. If the only good news is that God has saved us from a terrible fate that only Christians think will happen, but otherwise is no improvement over what's outside the Church, it's a lot less convincing. It's even worse if it looks worse than the surrounding culture.

Sal Robinson · Mar 23, 2020

I love the responses to this challenging posts, I myself need to get my head around this

Sal Robinson · Mar 23, 2020

I think more that any verbal rebuttle, the world needs more christian storytellers telling powerful stories about christian being faithful, and the impact they have on peoples live because of their faithfulness to the God who loves them

I pray your daughter is impacted by loving christian where as at the moment she has been impacted by hurtful Christians

heal103 · Mar 23, 2020

Thank you for praying❤

Apex · Mar 23, 2020

I have similar beliefs to your daughter and I am a Christian who loves Jesus and studies the Bible daily. Lead her to good "liberal" Christian teachers ("The Bible of Normal People" podcast with Pete Enns might be a good choice for her) or she may leave the faith entirely. You can be a liberal and a Christian.

John stones · Mar 23, 2020

Honestly the professor and scientist don't have facts on their side. If the Bible is true then what it says is true and can be proven by the natural world. Lots of talk of this in intelligent desgin. The basic premise though is that we came from a single cell organism that popped into existence and somehow lived and multiplied into human beings. That has proven to be a mathematical impossibility. Just how the laws of physics mash with math it is impossible with out and intelligent designer. Really rherw are few professor who refute these others but it is common to indoctrinate these kids. I suggest right fire with fire but in a loving way because she will see the professor don't care about her but if you truly love her and show her God's love and oray For her I think that would speak volumes to her. She knows the profesor don't actually care about her. But if she chooses to harden her heart she is going to do just that. Just pray for her. Hopefully this helps.

J

lsume · Mar 24, 2020

I will pray for you and your daughter. Even when I went to college many of my early professors were very liberal. However in my major I was quickly with professors that were conservative. If your daughter was raised in The Word, she will not leave it. It very much sounds like she needs a real relationship with Christ so that she might begin to understand. Romans chapter 1 covers the issue you brought up. However I don’t think your daughter is going to agree with it. Obviously whether one agrees with God’s Word or not has nothing to do with The Truth. The Truth stands forever and young people have a real tough time in this world seeing straight. We are great grand parents and we have several grandchildren around your daughters age it sounds like. I was raised a Missouri Synod Lutheran. You might ask your daughter to take a moral inventory and to seriously seek The Truth. If we seek we will find. Assuming that your young daughter has any logic in her personal makeup, you can ask her the following;
1. What if your wrong?
2. Isn’t your eternal soul worth something?
3. Please take some serious time to find The Truth
4. State that her most valuable possession is by far her eternal soul
True Christians realize that they are not the judge. I don’t spend any time thinking about punishment coming to others. My time is spent in prayer asking for forgiveness and guidance. I honestly don’t see any Christian doing what these professors accuse them of. Ask your daughter if she has ever heard anyone she believes to be an honest Christian speak of judgement? Again, I plan to pray for you. I know the most important thing in our kids lives to us has been their faith. Our oldest will be 46 this year. Her son, our grandson, has lost his faith if he ever had it to begin with. This has caused great pain.

lsume · Mar 24, 2020

I also claimed that true Christians are not running around with judgement on their brains other than their own.

John42 · Mar 24, 2020

I'm sorry to hear about the situation with your daughter. One of the more modern churches out there is Northpoint Church and its sister churches run by Andy Stanley. I attended and it attracts a lot of young people - they play rock music, turn down the lights, etc. They may have a more nuanced way of addressing the issue.

Daniel Marsh · Mar 24, 2020

contact Sean McDonald for information.
https://www.josh.org/about-us/joshs-bio/sean-mcdowell/
Sean McDowell | Home

look up Boy Erased at IMDB Boy Erased (2018) - IMDb
Joel Edgerton - Biography - IMDb
Saturn's Return (TV Short 2001) - IMDb
for contrast watch
Never Tell Me Never (1998) with her first.
Secret Men's Business (1999) has
Male Objectification

Watch the movie with her and make criticisms during the movie on how poorly he was treated. After watching the movie with her discuss it. It is ok to put parts of the movie on hold to talk about the drug abuse for example.

Google 'blue-tongue films gay propaganda

The Secret Life of Us
1h | Drama | TV Series (2001–2006) by the same director is a gay propaganda series.

The purpose of watching those films by the same director is to teach or model critical thinking about propaganda and suspension of disbelief in movies.

Suspension of disbelief, sometimes called willing suspension of disbelief, is an intentional avoidance of critical thinking or logic in examining something surreal, such as a work of speculative fiction, in order to believe it for the sake of enjoyment.

Drama Teachers are not known for Critical Thinking.
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/suspension-of-disbelief.html

Your goals is to discuss with her by watching those movies:
Recognizing propaganda
Awareness of suspension of disbelief
Use Critical Thinking while watching movies
Genuine discussion and reactions of True Christians to such trash --- and mistreatment of others. I have no doubt the movie is full of exaggerations. I would watch the movie before watching it together, so you can take notes of what to discuss.

heal103 · Mar 24, 2020

Thank you for praying for her ❤

heal103 · Mar 24, 2020

The movie is I think intended to associate christianity and church with bigotry and ignorance. Many will see this movie and never set foot in church again. It is that disturbing. The message is Christians will reject you and disown you if you are gay. It's very convincing to young minds

Controversial issue. Need genuine advice

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