I wonder about the literalism of the first five books of the OT

yeshuasavedme

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There is no ancient city called “ur of the Chaldeans”.
Ur is “fire”.
Abraham was delivered from the fires of the Kasdim.
Abraham was born in Syria. The Word of God says so.
Damascus is the oldest continuously occupied city in the world.
Nimrod made Terah, Abraham’s father, his highest general in his army, and for that reason Terah named his son Abram, which meant exalted father, because Nimrod was young, and made Terah in the position of that like a father.

Nimrod was called Am Rapha El, after the fall of the tower, and the reason was in the words meaning “in him they fell”.
Nimrod is in Genesis 14 as “Amraphael”, and Abraham and his little army chased him and his army all the way back up into Syria, to Hobah, north of Damascus.
Haran, Abraham’s brother, died in the fires of the Kasdim, because Terah blamed him for the plot not to kill Abraham when he was born, and Nimrod had both Abram and Haran thrown in the fires...Haran died, because his faith was not in God.
Abram had the knowledge of God from having lived with Noah and Shem from age 10 to 49, I think it was, and came from there at the time of the fall of the Tower of Babel.
Shem outlived Abraham, you can read that in the Bible, and Shem was the king of righteousness, the priest of the most high God, as the patriarch who had the office descended from Adam, through Seth, and down to Noah...Noah gave the office to Shem. It is Mechi Zedek, commonly called Melchizedek. Shem blessed Abram with the office when he met him returning from routing the kings and Nimrod, with the goods and people they had taken back. Jesus is the Patriarchal “Everlasting Father” of the New Man creation of the sons He died for, to redeem them from the curse of sin and death in Adam, so as to adopt them into His New Man, One Living Spirit, and at the regeneration of the old man Adam flesh, into that like His incorruptible one New Man image, made for glory.
It’s a good history and you can read it in the real Book of Jasher, which you can find online.


Point being that there was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in the time of Abraham. There is an Urfa near Haran which was Canaanite.. Local legend puts Urfa as the original home of Terah and Abraham.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I agree completely.

I'm sometimes bemused by brethren who have no problem believing that Jesus is the Son of God, that he rose from the grave, and that we'll be given eternal life and glorious bodies on a new earth...yet have difficulty believing that God parted the Red Sea.

It seems to me to be quite a disconnect.
He sent a strong east wind that blew all night, and the sea stood up as ice, on the two sides.
That is in the Bible. Even today, those people in that area can make ice when there is a strong east wind coming through a passage between the dessert rock cliffs by putting the water out to ice up.
points out the waters divided and standing up in a heap can also be translated as in ice in the Bible passage.. Psalm 78:13
 
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Oseas

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God speaks about the future as if it is the past when it comes to certain things - like the birth of Christ and turning Satan to ashes in the Lake of Fire.
Right.

According to the wrath of God that will fall upon all the nations, these are the prophetic messages of His two witnesses to be fulfilled from now on, in addition to the plague of PESTILENCE that is underway:

James 5:v.1-6
1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

- The global financial system will collapse completely
- The nations will suffer very serious FAMINE that comes on earth
- There will also be earthquakes in several places
- Nations will be in great tribulation and anguish
- All kind of structures of the Devil's World will be demolished, it will be as an IMPLOSION, the fall of the structures of the World of Devil will be some thing like the fall of the World Trade Center, and it is already falling.


Jeremiah 25:v.32-38
32 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.
34 Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.
35 And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.
36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the Lord hath spoiled their pasture.
37 And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
38 He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.

Isaiah 5:v.14-16
14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:
16 But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in JUDGMENT, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.

 
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Oseas

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God speaks about the future as if it is the past when it comes to certain things - like the birth of Christ and turning Satan to ashes in the Lake of Fire.
Right.

According to the wrath of God that will fall upon all the nations, these are the prophetic messages of His two witnesses to be fulfilled from now on, in addition to the plague of PESTILENCE that is underway:

James 5:v.1-6
1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

- The global financial system will collapse completely
- The nations will suffer very serious FAMINE that comes on earth
- There will also be earthquakes in several places
- Nations will be in great tribulation and anguish
- All kind of structures of the Devil's World will be demolished, it will be as an IMPLOSION, the fall of the structures of the World of Devil will be some thing like the fall of the World Trade Center, and it is already falling.


Jeremiah 25:v.32-38
32 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.
34 Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.
35 And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.
36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the Lord hath spoiled their pasture.
37 And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
38 He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.

Isaiah 5:v.14-16
14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:
16 But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in JUDGMENT, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.

 
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1213

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...We do not show reverence for the scriptures when we misapply them through faulty interpretation."

Scriptural truth will forever last while our manmade conclusions will change with time and events.

What do you think?

Quite well said. I think we should try to avoid to make own interpretations and instead read it as it is written and let the Bible explain what it means.
 
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Hawkins

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I admire the thinking of a friend: "Let us not try to wrest the scriptures in an attempt to explain away what we cannot explain. The opening chapters of Genesis and scriptures related thereto were never intended as a textbook of geology, archaeology, earth-science, or man-science; Holy Scripture will endure, while the conceptions of men change with new discoveries. We do not show reverence for the scriptures when we misapply them through faulty interpretation."

Scriptural truth will forever last while our manmade conclusions will change with time and events.

What do you think?

It's important to be conservative in preserving the literal meaning of the Bible, which is the first layer guard of the Scripture. However this means whatever outside the literal meaning can be right however can be rejected at the same time.

On the other hand, it means Christians have the duty of discernment. Preserving the literal meaning as a correct action should not be used as an opt-out of this discernment duty.
 
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Oseas

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Right.
According to the wrath of God that will fall upon all the nations, these are the prophetic messages of His two witnesses to be fulfilled from now on, in addition to the plague of PESTILENCE that is underway:

James 5:v.1-6
1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

- The global financial system will collapse completely
- The nations will suffer very serious FAMINE that comes on earth
- There will also be earthquakes in several places
- Nations will be in great tribulation and anguish
- All kind of structures of the Devil's World will be demolished, it will be as an IMPLOSION, the fall of the structures of the World of Devil will be some thing like the fall of the World Trade Center, and it is already falling.


Jeremiah 25:v.32-38
32 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.
34 Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel.
35 And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape.
36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the Lord hath spoiled their pasture.
37 And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
38 He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger.

Isaiah 5:v.14-16
14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:
16 But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in JUDGMENT, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.

See, the purpose of making a reply of my own message sent months ago, is to reremember to all of my brothers in Christ that the wrath of God is running or falling against all nations, inclusive against the nation of Israel of today, and besides of the PESTILENCE that is imploding the World of Devil even social and economicaly, there will be famines in the sequence of this PESTILENCE, as signs of JESUS coming back as He promised, and also as signs of the END of the World, as JESUS said: Mat.24:.v.3. And there will be EARTHQUAKES in DIVERS PLACES from now on, it is impossible to say in what places will occur these EARTHQUAKES specificaly determined previously to happen now in the END of the times and of the END of the Devil's World.

It is good and important that everyone is awake and vigilant. On the other hand, let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to our LORD: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and to the wife of Him is granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. These are the true sayings of God.

May our LORD God bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen
 
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pescador

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See, the purpose of making a reply of my own message sent months ago, is to reremember to all of my brothers in Christ that the wrath of God is running or falling against all nations, inclusive against the nation of Israel of today, and besides of the PESTILENCE that is imploding the World of Devil even social and economicaly, there will be famines in the sequence of this PESTILENCE, as signs of JESUS coming back as He promised, and also as signs of the END of the World, as JESUS said: Mat.24:.v.3. And there will be EARTHQUAKES in DIVERS PLACES from now on, it is impossible to say in what places will occur these EARTHQUAKES specificaly determined previously to happen now in the END of the times and of the END of the Devil's World.

It is good and important that everyone is awake and vigilant. On the other hand, let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to our LORD: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and to the wife of Him is granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. These are the true sayings of God.

May our LORD God bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen

Whatever. Have a nice day -- somewhere else.
 
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Jipsah

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BobRyan

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See, the purpose of making a reply of my own message sent months ago, is to reremember to all of my brothers in Christ that the wrath of God is running or falling against all nations, inclusive against the nation of Israel of today, and besides of the PESTILENCE that is imploding the World of Devil even social and economicaly, there will be famines in the sequence of this PESTILENCE, as signs of JESUS coming back as He promised, and also as signs of the END of the World, as JESUS said: Mat.24:.v.3. And there will be EARTHQUAKES in DIVERS PLACES from now on, it is impossible to say in what places will occur these EARTHQUAKES specificaly determined previously to happen now in the END of the times and of the END of the Devil's World.

It is good and important that everyone is awake and vigilant. On the other hand, let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to our LORD: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and to the wife of Him is granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. These are the true sayings of God.

May our LORD God bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen

Good point
 
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BobRyan

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It's important to be conservative in preserving the literal meaning of the Bible, which is the first layer guard of the Scripture. However this means whatever outside the literal meaning can be right however can be rejected at the same time.

On the other hand, it means Christians have the duty of discernment. Preserving the literal meaning as a correct action should not be used as an opt-out of this discernment duty.

Yep - there is the Song of Solomon after all ... and more than one or two symbols in Daniel and Revelation... no doubt.
 
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Oseas

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Everybody is a literalist until a favorite doctrine gets stepped on.

Former Member of A Group Which Must Not Be Named

Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.

"Every Christian sect or denomination has doctrines so dearly held that the Bible cannot be allowed to damage them." -- Brother Buford

The door of salvation did shut. The earth is poluted of apostasies, and false teachings and doctrines, and even multitude of false Christians that endure not sound doctrine; having itching ears they turned away their ears from God's Truth, and turned unto fables, said Paul the Apostle to Timothy..

If any have ONLY lamp, that is, only the LITERAL knowledge of the Word of God, he are lost, lost for ever. And who sells oil now, false sellers, is also lost, said JESUS-Matthew 25.

As in the days of Noah were, so is also now in the coming of JESUS, it means that, as in the days that were BEFORE the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, and knew not that the door of the Ark was shut, and the flood came and took them all away; so also now in the coming of the LORD Jesus, the door is already shut before His coming in this end of the times or in the days ahead, and as the door of the Ark that God shut it BEFORE the flood, many will seek to enter in and shall not be able, and then will be revealed who is in and who is out of the Kingdom of God.
 
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