LDS How a Cult Works

mmksparbud · Mar 22, 2020

Peter1000 said:
That's fine, you have your interpretation and we have ours. Ours is as valid as yours. We believe that JS was chosen to by Jesus Christ to set up this kingdom during the 10 toes time, which we are in as you say at the toenails, and he, through Jesus Christ has got the organization set up that has started to break in pieces and consume all the kingdoms of the earth, which will be manifest much more vividly and much quicker at the second coming of Christ.

This kingdom has been set up as a fore-runner to the second coming of Christ to prepare the people of the world for that event. Hence you will see an increase in the number of missionaries we put out into the world. You will see an increase in membership throughout the world. You will see an increase in activity throughout the world. Just sit back and watch it happen.

Yours is in no way valid. It does not conform to the rest of the prophecies regarding this image. It totally bypasses important points of it and it is not corroborated by history. Yah---I will sit back and watch it not happen. You got a date set for this? And, BTW, after any catastrophe---there is a surge in religiosity. There usually is a period of revival---for a while.

Peter1000 · Mar 22, 2020

dzheremi said:
They do, in common with Christians, call Jesus "the messiah" (المسيح -- found in Qur'an 3:45, 4:157, etc.), which is a word for the expected deliverer or savior of the Jews.

In common with with Mormonism, however, they affix this title to a completely different character who may be based on the Jesus of Christianity in some sense, but has been heavily edited to fit their own distinctively heretical theology molded and limited by what concepts and ideas their ignorant and blasphemous founder was able to either accept from traditional Christianity, or was able to come up with himself after receiving some so-called 'revelations' to this end from his god.

This is why I'm always saying on here that Mormonism's forerunner in religion wasn't any kind of Christianity, but Islam.

It's not that there are no differences, but rather that the two are pretty close in ways that neither are to Christianity.

Your idea that the muslim religion and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are similar in ways that Christianity is not is bordering on Mormon Derangement Syndrome (MDS), as justified by your sophomoric satirical cartoon. You are better than this.

Peter1000 · Mar 22, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Yours is in no way valid. It does not conform to the rest of the prophecies regarding this image. It totally bypasses important points of it and it is not corroborated by history. Yah---I will sit back and watch it not happen. You got a date set for this? And, BTW, after any catastrophe---there is a surge in religiosity. There usually is a period of revival---for a while.

You did not specify what parts of the prophesy that it did not conform to, so I cannot comment. So again, keep an eye on the world conditions and see what happens. It will be interesting.

mmksparbud · Mar 22, 2020

Peter1000 said:
You did not specify what parts of the prophesy that it did not conform to, so I cannot comment. So again, keep an eye on the world conditions and see what happens. It will be interesting.

You make nothing out of the 10 toes, nothing about mixing themselves with the seed of man--The rock that was cut out of the mountain without hands, nothing about what brought the Roman empire down and replaced it. Instead you insert JS where no JS fits. Yes, it will be a very interesting world in the coming years---and JS will have nothing to do with it. JS wanted to become a political power---God wasn't having it. There is only one church that has been both political and religious world power and will be again and you church isn't it.

Jamesone5 · Mar 22, 2020

Peter1000 said:
Your idea that the muslim religion and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are similar in ways that Christianity is not is bordering on Mormon Derangement Syndrome (MDS), as justified by your sophomoric satirical cartoon. You are better than this.

You gotta love these names Mormons pin on their detectors.

Derangement is form of psychosis or causing or making someone insane. When you say we are bordering on Mormon Derangement Syndrome, you and at least the FairMormon site are claiming we are bordering on insanity.

No I not put it so harsh as to fight back with "you are deranged as well" , but I would put it at-"you are being very decieved".

And deceive happens to be a Biblical term.

.

dzheremi · Mar 22, 2020

Peter1000 said:
Your idea that the muslim religion and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are similar in ways that Christianity is not is bordering on Mormon Derangement Syndrome (MDS), as justified by your sophomoric satirical cartoon. You are better than this.

I didn't make the cartoon, Peter, and I'm far from the first person to have noticed this.

Obviously, you can deny the similarities all you want, but they are still there.

There is a lot of denial lately from our Mormon friends such as you and He Is the Way. Do you have anything to say to refute the similarities pointed out by the video, or are you just going to say "nuh uh" and call it a day?

Also, it's a bit silly trying to make 'Mormon Derangement Syndrome' a thing. I guess it makes it easier to brush off criticism and critics, but that doesn't make either go away, and it's not really an answer to anything.

Nancy Hale · Mar 22, 2020

Peter1000 said:
Islam believes in Jesus, but they do not believe he can save them. He is not their Savior.

We, in the Church of Jesus Christ believe that Jesus is our Savior. A big difference.

We, in the Church of Jesus Christ believe that Mohammed was a false prophet and received his revelations that Jesus was a man, but not the Savior from a source that is not holy.

We, in the Church of Jesus Christ believe that if Mohammed had received his revelations from a holy source he would have declared as we do, that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and through his atonement, he saved mankind from their sins and will open the way to eternal life to those that believe and do as he has commanded. They do not declare these things as we do.

Islam does not have apostles and prophets of Jesus Christ as Jesus set up in his church in the first century, and as we have in the Church of Jesus Christ today.

Islam lives by the Quoran, which does give honor to Jesus, but does not teach that he is the Savior of the world. And because we know his revelations about Jesus are wrong, other doctrines that are taught also may be wrong.

So a lot of differences between Islam and the Church of Jesus Christ. It really is not even close.

I asked a friend who belongs to a sect of Islam and she said they believe Jesus is a prophet and he saved them from their sins by dying on the cross.
She explained that further "revelations" were needed and were given through later prophets. Which is the exact same thing Mormons explained in the 1980s thru today, just leaving off prophet now. Tell me, do you believe Jesus created the heavens and the earth?
I've been around long enough to see and hear the changes for myself in what Mormons profess.
The thing about God is, He never changes.
Mormons were firmly against soda until they bought Pepsi. Then everyone was drinking Pepsi, caffeine free, sure, but every other word out of their mouths were about the wonders of Pepsi. You have strict rules against caffeine, but no issues profiting off of selling it to others.
There is no goodness there. Just greed, human pride, and lust.

dzheremi · Mar 22, 2020

Nancy Hale said:
I asked a friend who belongs to a sect of Islam and she said they believe Jesus is a prophet and he saved them from their sins by dying on the cross.

I'm sorry, but I'm confused. What sect of Islam believes this? I'm most definitely not Muslim, but the crucifixion and death of Jesus (who Muhammad remade into this 'Isa character) is denied explicitly in the Qur'an itself:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

— Qur'an 4:157–158 (emphasis added)

She explained that further "revelations" were needed and were given through later prophets.

Ohhhh...it sounds like your friend might be an Ahmadi...they are the only people (aside from some Baha'i, which is a syncretic religion, so they're kind of everything at once) who might claim to be Muslim who believe in prophets after Muhammad. For that reason and some others, they are not generally regarded as Muslims by other Muslims. (They're like the Mormons of Islam.)

mmksparbud · Mar 22, 2020

Nancy Hale said:
I asked a friend who belongs to a sect of Islam and she said they believe Jesus is a prophet and he saved them from their sins by dying on the cross.
She explained that further "revelations" were needed and were given through later prophets. Which is the exact same thing Mormons explained in the 1980s thru today, just leaving off prophet now. Tell me, do you believe Jesus created the heavens and the earth?
I've been around long enough to see and hear the changes for myself in what Mormons profess.
The thing about God is, He never changes.
Mormons were firmly against soda until they bought Pepsi. Then everyone was drinking Pepsi, caffeine free, sure, but every other word out of their mouths were about the wonders of Pepsi. You have strict rules against caffeine, but no issues profiting off of selling it to others.
There is no goodness there. Just greed, human pride, and lust.

As far as caffeine is concerned, Pepsi has 4 mg more caffeine than Coke per 12 fl oz can. PepsiCo. who makes Pepsi Cola is the largest food and beverage company in the USA as well as Russia, India, and the Middle East.
Caffeine in Pepsi Cola

www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/pepsi-cola

How much caffeine in Pepsi Zero?
Pepsi Zero Sugar. It contains more caffeine than regular Pepsi and has added ginseng. It has come to our attention that Pepsi Max has a different formulation in the UK, Australia, New Zealand and some other markets and thus has a lower caffeine content there. It contains 42.6mg per 12 ounce (355ml) can.
Caffeine in Pepsi Zero Sugar

www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/pepsi-max

If they are against caffeine---why do they drink Pepsi?

Nancy Hale · Mar 22, 2020

dzheremi said:
I'm sorry, but I'm confused. What sect of Islam believes this? I'm most definitely not Muslim, but the crucifixion and death of Jesus (who Muhammad remade into this 'Isa character) is denied explicitly in the Qur'an itself:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

— Qur'an 4:157–158 (emphasis added)

Ohhhh...it sounds like your friend might be an Ahmadi...they are the only people (aside from some Baha'i, which is a syncretic religion, so they're kind of everything at once) who might claim to be Muslim who believe in prophets after Muhammad. For that reason and some others, they are not generally regarded as Muslims by other Muslims. (They're like the Mormons of Islam.)

She is Bahai, which I know little about. She told me she wasn't allowed to talk about her religion and every time we got together she ended up talking about her religion..

Nancy Hale · Mar 22, 2020

mmksparbud said:
As far as caffeine is concerned, Pepsi has 4 mg more caffeine than Coke per 12 fl oz can. PepsiCo. who makes Pepsi Cola is the largest food and beverage company in the USA as well as Russia, India, and the Middle East.
Caffeine in Pepsi Cola
View attachment 273521
www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/pepsi-cola

How much caffeine in Pepsi Zero?
Pepsi Zero Sugar. It contains more caffeine than regular Pepsi and has added ginseng. It has come to our attention that Pepsi Max has a different formulation in the UK, Australia, New Zealand and some other markets and thus has a lower caffeine content there. It contains 42.6mg per 12 ounce (355ml) can.
Caffeine in Pepsi Zero Sugar

www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/pepsi-max

If they are against caffeine---why do they drink Pepsi?

I'm not certain they still do, but I lived in a small Mormon majority town when they bought it. It was all they talked about and they bought cases of it and were passing it out. After a couple weeks they were told just to drink caffeine free. It was 1989ish

mmksparbud · Mar 22, 2020

Nancy Hale said:
I'm not certain they still do, but I lived in a small Mormon majority town when they bought it. It was all they talked about and they bought cases of it and were passing it out. After a couple weeks they were told just to drink caffeine free. It was 1989ish

Thank you, interesting since caffeine free did not come out until 1982. Took them a while to switch.

Peter1000 · Mar 22, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
Yes, I have heard them all, supposing the Bible says this or that, when it does not.

Let's see here's one from your post:

Acts 3: 19-21 talks about a time when there will be a restitution of all things that the mouths of the holy prophets have spoken since the beginning of time.---Peter1000

What do those verses say in context, particularly in verses 20 and 21?

Acts 3:20-21
20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

I agree they are about Jesus, and not a false prophet. But it is about Jesus coming to the earth and restoring all things. As Jesus would not do anything without a true prophet, he would restore that office first. And he did.

You may say that it means when he comes a second time. But I believe that he set up his church ahead of his second coming so he can use that church to prepare the world for the event of the second coming.

He can restore the offices of apostles and prophets and restore the keys of heaven, to be used to give power and authority to men again to build a world-wide church that can preach the gospel world-wide in preparation for the second coming and have a people prepared for the Lord.

When you see these world-wide activities start to happen, be amazed.

Peter1000 · Mar 22, 2020

Nancy Hale said:
I asked a friend who belongs to a sect of Islam and she said they believe Jesus is a prophet and he saved them from their sins by dying on the cross.
She explained that further "revelations" were needed and were given through later prophets. Which is the exact same thing Mormons explained in the 1980s thru today, just leaving off prophet now. Tell me, do you believe Jesus created the heavens and the earth?
I've been around long enough to see and hear the changes for myself in what Mormons profess.
The thing about God is, He never changes.
Mormons were firmly against soda until they bought Pepsi. Then everyone was drinking Pepsi, caffeine free, sure, but every other word out of their mouths were about the wonders of Pepsi. You have strict rules against caffeine, but no issues profiting off of selling it to others.
There is no goodness there. Just greed, human pride, and lust.

The Church of Jesus Christ never owned the Pepsi Cola Company. See below.

Mormon Ownership of Coca-Cola

I asked a friend of mine who was the main auditor for Deloitte/Haskins/ and Sells, the accounting firm that audits the church, if the church owned Coca Cola. He said that the rumor was untrue. But he said that he thinks what happened was a person or persons gave their 100 shares of stock to the church as a tithe offering. The church may have held those shares for a time and then sold them. But no, they never owned or invested in Coca Cola.

I believe I would receive the same answer for Pepsi Cola Company. If you investigate and find that I am wrong, please let me know through this forum. Thanks.

Peter1000 · Mar 22, 2020

Nancy Hale said:
I'm not certain they still do, but I lived in a small Mormon majority town when they bought it. It was all they talked about and they bought cases of it and were passing it out. After a couple weeks they were told just to drink caffeine free. It was 1989ish

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints never bought Pepsi Cola Company. See below.

Mormon Ownership of Coca-Cola

Interesting story about your small Mormon majority town. What town was it?

Peter1000 · Mar 22, 2020

mmksparbud said:
I prayed before reading the BOM and Pearl and so on----I never want to read them again, once was more than enough! The Holy Spirit said---Nope---not my work! It was obvious within a few sentences. So incredibly fake I have no idea how anyone can believe it! King James English---seriously??

Who taught you it was King James English?

Peter1000 · Mar 22, 2020

dzheremi said:
I didn't make the cartoon, Peter, and I'm far from the first person to have noticed this.

Obviously, you can deny the similarities all you want, but they are still there.

There is a lot of denial lately from our Mormon friends such as you and He Is the Way. Do you have anything to say to refute the similarities pointed out by the video, or are you just going to say "nuh uh" and call it a day?

Also, it's a bit silly trying to make 'Mormon Derangement Syndrome' a thing. I guess it makes it easier to brush off criticism and critics, but that doesn't make either go away, and it's not really an answer to anything.

I stopped watching it when they compared Mohammed going into a cave and JS going into the woods. That was so stupid, I figured the rest was just as stupid. Moses went to the top of a mountain. Abraham went into the desert. Adam was in a garden. Elijah was in a cave. Must I go on?

You also compare us to Arius, which is completely unfounded. We too, would excommunicate Arius for saying there was a time when Jesus was not.

If Islam is comparable to the Church of Jesus Christ, then it can be compared to the general Christian churches too.

He is the way · Mar 22, 2020

topher694 said:
Clearly you don't know what that scripture means.

So what do you believe these scriptures mean?:

(New Testament | James 2:17 - 26)

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

mmksparbud · Mar 22, 2020

Peter1000 said:
Who taught you it was King James English?

+-

Hello?! What does the King James bible say? He tried to sound like it was the bible--which was a dumb thing to do. When God speaks to a prophet, they pass on that information in their own words, using the language they know during that time. Our own prophet didn't write in the King James English---she wrote in the English of her day. Read her works so you know what that sounds like. You mean you can't see it? Why try to sound "biblical?" So phony.

topher694 · Mar 22, 2020

He is the way said:
So what do you believe these scriptures mean?:

(New Testament | James 2:17 - 26)

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Let's start with you. You've made vague and broad statements about several scriptures. You picked these scriptures. What do you think they mean, and why did you highlight the ones you did?

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