Is the "Only Believe" doctrine false?

boxman144

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There are many ways to help others. Make a phone call to someone who is lonely. Write a letter. Just think of ways you can be useful. It sounds like you want to help. That is the right attitude.

All I wanted to do when I got saved was help people. I've always liked helping people. I don't like seeing people suffer emotionally, because I've been there myself. I love people and I love God. All I want people to do is get saved. Reign in Heaven with God. If I have to suffer in Hell forever so that people get to finally be happy in Heaven, then so be it.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Hey all, may Jesus shine his everlasting light on you.

Recently, I saw this post by Sister Sharon, also known as MotivatingU2Win. She has this video:


What are your thoughts? Is "Only Believing In Christ" a false doctrine?

How do you believe we attain salvation?

How do we become totally sinless?

I'm praying for you all,

boxman144:amen:

I think this all depends on your definition of the word believe. The Greek word that was actually used “pisteuo” encompasses more than a simple acknowledgement of God’s existence.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The words faith, believe, and believer are all actually 3 different forms of the same Greek word pistis. Faith or pistis being the noun, believe or pisteuo being the verb, and believer or pistos being the adjective. The Greek words pisteuo (believe) pistos (believer) pistis (faith) all imply a certain level of faithfulness, trustworthiness, fidelity, and loyalty in their definition. These have to do with an individual’s motivation for salvation. Notice in the definition below there’s a number 1 in front of the first 3 descriptions for the word pisteuo, that’s because all three of these descriptions are included in the primary definition.


believe


G4100


Lemma:


πιστεύω


Transliteration:


pisteúō


Pronounce:


pist-yoo'-o


Part of Speech:


Verb


Language:


greek


Description:


1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in a) of the thing believed


1) to credit, have confidence b) in a moral or religious reference


1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul


2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith


3) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith


2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity a) to be intrusted with a thing


believers


G4103


Lemma:


πιστός


Transliteration:


pistós


Pronounce:


pis-tos'


Part of Speech:


Adjective


Language:


greek


Description:


1) trusty, faithful a) of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties b) one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust c) that can be relied on


2) easily persuaded a) believing, confiding, trusting b) in the NT one who trusts in God's promises


1) one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead


2) one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation


faith


G4102


Lemma:


πίστις


Transliteration:


pístis


Pronounce:


pis'-tis


Part of Speech:


Noun Feminine


Language:


greek


Description:


1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it a) relating to God


1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ b) relating to Christ


1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same


2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on


This does not mean that our works in any way play a role in our salvation but the motivation behind those works is what counts. Is our desire self serving or God serving? Does it stem from a selfish desire like self righteousness and recognition or does it stem from love for others and love for God? Those who believe in Christ and desire to do good works out of love for God and others will be saved despite their imperfections but those who do good works as a means to earn self righteousness will not be saved regardless of whether they believe in Christ or not because the scriptures say that those who seek to justify themselves thru their works have denied the necessity of Christ’s sacrifice.


So when you view the word pisteuo as only pertaining to the definition of the English word believe, verses like John 15:1-10 don’t make any sense because it completely eliminates any inner conviction or desire to actually serve God as being a necessity for receiving salvation. If a person has this inner conviction and desire to serve God then he will bear fruit and so long as he keeps this inner conviction he will abide in Christ. Simply acknowledging that Christ existed without any desire to serve God will save no one. This is why the definition of the English word believe does not fit the context of the scriptures and appears to contradict other verses.
 
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Al Touthentop

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I think this all depends on your definition of the word believe. The Greek word that was actually used “pisteuo” encompasses more than a simple acknowledgement of God’s existence.

In many cases the word used is a noun and it's speaking of "the faith" rather than personal belief. I'm agreeing with you in case you think this is intended to be argumentative :).
 
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BNR32FAN

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In many cases the word used is a noun and it's speaking of "the faith" rather than personal belief. I'm agreeing with you in case you think this is intended to be argumentative :).

Yes both the words faith and believe are stemmed from the same root word pistis. Actually let me rephrase the root word pistis means faith.
 
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Charlie24

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The "faith alone" doctrine is based on trusting solely in what Christ did at Calvary for our salvation. There is nothing we can do on our own, it's all faith in Him.

It teaches that there is nothing man can do to please God. The good works that the believer produces is done only by submitting to the Lord which allows the Holy Spirit to work through us to bring forth these works. These works are not of our own doing, it is done by the Spirit and we take no credit for it.

Our Justification and Sanctification are completely done through us by submission to Christ, no works of our own whatsoever. It's all produced by faith in Him.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The "faith alone" doctrine is based on trusting solely in what Christ did at Calvary for our salvation. There is nothing we can do on our own, it's all faith in Him.

It teaches that there is nothing man can do to please God. The good works that the believer produces is done only by submitting to the Lord which allows the Holy Spirit to work through us to bring forth these works. These works are not of our own doing, it is done by the Spirit and we take no credit for it.

Our Justification and Sanctification are completely done through us by submission to Christ, no works of our own whatsoever. It's all produced by faith in Him.

Submission is a work, it requires cooperation.
 
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Charlie24

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Submission is a work, it requires cooperation.

If you want to call that a work, ok.

I am saying that God will not accept any work from man unless it comes by the leading and work of the Holy Spirit through us.

Just as Jesus gave Himself totally to the Spirit. Everything He did was from the leading and work of the Holy Spirit through Him.
 
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Al Touthentop

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The "faith alone" doctrine is based on trusting solely in what Christ did at Calvary for our salvation. There is nothing we can do on our own, it's all faith in Him.

It teaches that there is nothing man can do to please God. The good works that the believer produces is done only by submitting to the Lord which allows the Holy Spirit to work through us to bring forth these works. These works are not of our own doing, it is done by the Spirit and we take no credit for it.

Our Justification and Sanctification are completely done through us by submission to Christ, no works of our own whatsoever. It's all produced by faith in Him.

But not of "none" works. The works we do are the works he created for us to walk in. Ephesians was talking about works that man invented "of yourselves." Juxtapose this with "deeds of the law" as written in Romans and Galatians. Both are distinct types of work which cannot save us. The old law was nailed to the cross and going back to those works will never justify anyone (now) but they did when that law was in effect as we read in multiple places including Luke which said that Zacharias and Elizabeth were considered righteous because they obeyed the law.

If we claim that Paul was saying that nobody EVER could be justified by the law of Moses, then we argue with Luke and the Holy Spirit which says at least two people we know about were justified by their obedience to it.

A person can be "good" and do good works but if he hasn't obeyed the gospel and is not doing good works other than to self-justify, then he's doing works "of himself," not what God commanded. And that's even if some of his works correspond to what God asked.

22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Paul is giving us more insight into what Jesus taught. You can do things that seem good but if you haven't obeyed him, they don't count as righteousness. You can even claim that you're doing it in his name and it won't be accepted.
 
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Al Touthentop

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If you want to call that a work, ok.

Jesus said that belief was a work and that it encompassed more than personal thoughts.

He never taught that he would cause people to work. Your statements are not really disputable so I don't intend to do that. You're right, we are led by the Spirit. But the typical "faith only" proponent will assert that evidence that we're saved is not because we of our own free will submit to the Spirit, but because the Spirit pushes us do the works we're created to walk in.

What usually goes hand in hand with this doctrine is that "saved" people were never saved in the first place if they do not produce fruit or work.

In other words, if we were EVER saved, we will do what God makes us do through the spirit. Yet the language is often of the sort of "irrefutable" language which doesn't say this at all and the pretext has to be read into it - the HOW it works being implied but not openly stated.

Permanent assurance combined with faith only says that a person who has turned away from God, is itself evidence that he was never saved in the first place. The only real evidence that exits in that case is that the person isn't at this moment obedient to God.

This also presumes that man has no free will and salvation therefore is a sort of programmatic result which had nothing to do with his own choices but what God has caused him and continues to cause him to do.

Yet, nowhere in scripture is the integrated explanation of such a thing ever presented to those preached the gospel either before or after their entrance into Christ.

The scriptures actually teach the opposite of this but you can take a few things out of context and say they "prove" that this is how it works.

If it were, then Peter on the day of Pentecost never would have commanded anyone do anything except think thoughts in their head and that they would begin to notice themselves doing things the Holy Spirit was telling them to do. By that logic, if a person went into a prostitute, they could just claim the Holy Spirit guided them to do that. "Well, I got saved and then I had the desire to find myself a bit of adult pleasure." Isn't God amazing?
 
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Charlie24

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But not of "none" works. The works we do are the works he created for us to walk in. Ephesians was talking about works that man invented "of yourselves." Juxtapose this with "deeds of the law" as written in Romans and Galatians. Both are distinct types of work which cannot save us. The old law was nailed to the cross and going back to those works will never justify anyone (now) but they did when that law was in effect as we read in multiple places including Luke which said that Zacharias and Elizabeth were considered righteous because they obeyed the law.

If we claim that Paul was saying that nobody EVER could be justified by the law of Moses, then we argue with Luke and the Holy Spirit which says at least two people we know about were justified by their obedience to it.

A person can be "good" and do good works but if he hasn't obeyed the gospel and is not doing good works other than to self-justify, then he's doing works "of himself," not what God commanded. And that's even if some of his works correspond to what God asked.

22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Paul is giving us more insight into what Jesus taught. You can do things that seem good but if you haven't obeyed him, they don't count as righteousness. You can even claim that you're doing it in his name and it won't be accepted.

I see it the same as Paul. "present yourself a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto the Lord, which is your reasonable service."

I submit myself unto Lord totally, I fail often, but that is my only goal.

I don't see this as a work, some maybe do, and that's ok too.

I read my bible, I listen to the preaching of God's word, I maintain a relationship with Christ through faith in what He has done for me.

Through reading God's word I have learned what is right and what is wrong. I have trained myself to recognize wrong/evil, and to walk away from it when I see it, to resist the temptation of thoughts that we all have at times. I can't say that I'm successful at all times.

I leave the rest to the Holy Spirit through my faith to guide me in all truth. Anything that results in fruit to my account, I consider the work of God through me, I take no credit but praise God what He has done.
 
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Al Touthentop

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I see it the same as Paul. "present yourself a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto the Lord, which is your reasonable service."

I submit myself unto Lord totally, I fail often, but that is my only goal.

I don't see this as a work, some maybe do, and that's ok too.

I read my bible, I listen to the preaching of God's word, I maintain a relationship with Christ through faith in what He has done for me.

Through reading God's word I have learned what is right and what is wrong. I have trained myself to recognize wrong/evil, and to walk away from it when I see it, to resist the temptation of thoughts that we all have at times. I can't say that I'm successful at all times.

I leave the rest to the Holy Spirit through my faith to guide me in all truth. Anything that results in fruit to my account, I consider the work of God through me, I take no credit but praise God what He has done.

Awesome. Like I said, you haven't really written anything that I can find fault with. It conforms to what the bible says. But many people who promote "faith alone" will say exactly what you're saying here, but assert that the meaning of it, the HOW this all works, is some sort of magic power that, against our own will, causes us to do what he asks.

That's where I would find fault in somebody's faith alone doctrine. We're saved by "the faith" alone, a system of law written by God that would have us submit our will, as a choice, to God's will.
 
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Charlie24

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Awesome. Like I said, you haven't really written anything that I can find fault with. It conforms to what the bible says. But many people who promote "faith alone" will say exactly what you're saying here, but assert that the meaning of it, the HOW this all works, is some sort of magic power that, against our own will, causes us to do what he asks.

That's where I would find fault in somebody's faith alone doctrine. We're saved by "the faith" alone, a system of law written by God that would have us submit our will, as a choice, to God's will.

I know some of who you speak. It's not some magic power.

It's God honoring the faith in His Son.

That's what this whole thing of life is about, faith that God can reward, that comes from His doing and not ours.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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The bible also gives us instructions on how to become heirs.



Which James says cannot save a person unless it is accompanied by the works God requires.



She read the command that causes us to be born again. She gets it.



And if you don't do what he asks of you, how is that trust?



And remission of sins, which is made effective by his sacrifice, is accomplished by what?
I appreciate your response.

However, if being born again is left out nowadays, it's not part of the teaching.

I get the sense of the elder son vs the prodigal son in the above quoted post, but God's will for us is to cultivate a heart like the father in the parable.
 
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shakewell

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How do you believe we attain salvation?
By believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:30-31 (KJV)

How do we become totally sinless?
By being born again. It happens in an instant and is permanent.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9 (KJV)

When does your unredeemed flesh become one iota sinless after you've been born again and are eternally secure?
Never.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. Romans 7:18 (KJV)
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:25 (KJV)
 
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It would be nice to think that we only have to believe to be saved. Many say that Scripture teaches such, especially in Paul's letters. However, Jesus warned in Matthew that many will call him "Lord", but unless they show mercy to the hungry and the homeless, they will not be saved.
That’s not what He said. In Matthew 7, those who He says will come to Him in vain are those who brag about the good things they’ve done. In the parable of the sheep and goats, it’s not the good works that make them sheep or goats, but rather the fact that they are sheep or goats shows what they did.
 
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Hammster

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Hey all, may Jesus shine his everlasting light on you.

Recently, I saw this post by Sister Sharon, also known as MotivatingU2Win. She has this video:


What are your thoughts? Is "Only Believing In Christ" a false doctrine?

How do you believe we attain salvation?

How do we become totally sinless?

I'm praying for you all,

boxman144:amen:
It would depend on what’s meant by “only believing” and what’s meant by salvation.

Galatians is clear that the gospel plus anything is a false gospel. The work was done 100% by Christ. So our righteous standing before God is based solely on the work of Jesus.

However, to think that there’s nothing required of us after salvation, or that we can continue to sin willingly, is foreign to scripture.

Much like children have responsibilities at home, and must obey their parents, we have responsibilities on earth, and must obey Christ. But just like children, disobedience does not sever the relationship. Children don’t stop being the children of their parents just because of disobedience. And it wasn’t their obedience that made them children. So in a like manner, that’s how our relationship with the Father is.
 
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bcbsr

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"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:30,31

Apparently the apostles thought that they only condition to be saved is to believe in the Lord Jesus. Likewise Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

Apparently both Jesus and his apostles agree on the matter.
 
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Hammster

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"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:30,31

Apparently the apostles thought that they only condition to be saved is to believe in the Lord Jesus. Likewise Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

Apparently both Jesus and his apostles agree on the matter.
When was he regenerated, per the text?
 
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I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
So we believe because we’ve crossed over from death to life.

Good to hear.
 
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