Beware of Pre-Tribbers Doomsday Hype

JacksBratt · Mar 21, 2020

Original Happy Camper said:
are you a believer in the secrete rapture?

I am not aware of any "secret" rapture.

civilwarbuff · Mar 21, 2020

Original Happy Camper said:
Revelation 6:11
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

sounds like followers of Christ will be Killed to me except for those that think they are raptured secretly ie No chance for them to suffer and die for Christ.

And of course that leads to your assumption that they believe in pre-trib rapture because they don't want to suffer for Christ? What intellectual giant preaches that?

JacksBratt · Mar 21, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
And at this point the problem is a lot bigger than simply the rapture doctrine itself. At this point the very Gospel itself is at stake.

-CryptoLutheran

The Gospel is for those that believe by faith and for those that believe by sight..

We can only believe by faith in Christ on the cross.. His blood is what saves us.

Those in the tribulation will not have "faith". They will be actually witnessing the events of a spiritual and physical warfare.

They will still be saved by the work on the cross, as all of mankind is, but they will be choosing to follow Christ and die.. instead of taking the number of the beast and living a pseudo immortality.

Right now.. we have a choice to accept Christ or not.. there is no death threat. Just our faith in something that we have heard about.. and believe.

Those during the tribulation will choose physical death in order to gain eternal life. All paid for by Christs blood.

JacksBratt · Mar 21, 2020

civilwarbuff said:
And of course that leads to your assumption that they believe in pre-trib rapture because they don't want to suffer for Christ? What intellectual giant preaches that?

good question, again.

JacksBratt · Mar 21, 2020

com7fy8 said:
And I see that in Revelation 7 there is the great number which no one can number, from every tribe and tongue and people and language.

So, if Jesus came here and suffered so much, in order to reach us and save us and help us, why would we want to leave the 144,000 and that great multitude on their own? If we who have had decades to mature in Jesus would't be able to handle being in the trib, how is it that newly saved people will be able to serve God in the trib, but we who are much more mature would need to be raptured out?

If the only children of God in the trib are saved during the seven years, then no one will have more then seven years maturity in Jesus, for ministering to God's people then. Why would God have decades-matured pastors leave the earth before He has His children with less than seven years in Jesus, during the trib? Why leave any Jews who get saved, without decades-matured pastors and other people of God??

And I know there is no direct statement making it clear . . . in the New Covenant scripture . . . which says Jesus will remove all His people immediately before the trib starts. But there is interpretation.

It is not about how long you have been a Christian. It has nothing to do with "maturity in Jesus"

com7fy8 · Mar 21, 2020

JacksBratt said:
It has nothing to do with "maturity in Jesus"

Time on earth does not decide how mature we are, but if we have grown in Christ, even for decades, why would we want to leave trib servants of God on their own, without us to be here for them?

Our Apostle Paul says he would be glad to depart to be with Jesus >

"Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you." (Philippians 1:24)

So, if we follow the example of Paul, we are willing to stay here on this earth in order to benefit other children of God who are here. It could be selfish, anti-love, for us to only care about our own selves so we desire to leave others here on their own. But, of course, when God has planned for us to leave, we obey this.

Now, in the pre-trib and post-trib discussion, it seems there is a lot of interpreting of words and claims about how to understand imagery, but I think principles of how the Bible says to love can help. And Paul's principle of love is he would be glad to go to Jesus and no longer suffer that tribulation that he suffered, but he was pleased to stay here so he could benefit children of God who still are here.

So, I consider that how God has us loving others as much as ourselves can fit with our being ready to stay here to help ones who become His children in the trib. And I think it is clear that if our Heavenly Father is able to take care of newborn servants in the trib, ones with not more than seven years of Christian experience, then surely He can take care of any of us more mature Christians. And it seems to me, how some number of people are claiming Jesus has to take us out because we would not be able to handle being in the trib. But God is able; this is about how He is able.

So, even if pre-trib were to be true, I think there are some un-Biblical reasons people are giving for it.

Which reasons are Biblical and which ones aren't? Which ones fit with Biblical principles of how to love and minister, and which do not?

Original Happy Camper · Mar 21, 2020

JacksBratt said:
I am not aware of any "secret" rapture.

fantastic

Davy · Mar 21, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Is this a response to my post, or someone else's???

Yes, see my post #19.

Davy · Mar 21, 2020

JacksBratt said:
I didn't read anything of your post, after what I have shown above...

What kind of nonsense are you spouting? Just an excuse to take a jab at people that hold a different view than you do?

A jab? If you don't know what God's Word really says as written, which has nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture, then you ought to know that means those pushing that doctrine don't have a leg to stand on. Acting as if they do makes the show of deception even more obvious.

It has nothing to do with 'my' view. Your question you should ask yourself, is, whether it is God's written Word or not, and then go search the Scriptures to find out for yourself, instead of going to ask your preacher, or default to one of Tim LaHaye's books or movies. (And yes, I find the pre-trib rapture materials, like LaHayes books and movies as abominations against The Word of God. So you can claim that as just my opinion too, but does God's Word show it as just opinion?)

I am one of the so called "Pre-Tribbers"... And.. I have not once used this to "draw" anyone in to a false belief.

If you believe a pre-trib rapture doctrine, then you are believing on a false belief, because no such rapture prior to the tribulation idea is written in God's Word.

In fact, I haven't heard one person state that "The Rapture is coming" due to this event... We are all aware that it is coming.. you and me... we still just disagree on the timing.

Why don't you go digging a bit more before you latch onto a doctrine of man that goes against God's Word? You hint that you're not aware of the timing God's written Word shows is the gathering of the Church to Christ Jesus. You suggest doubt in your words as to the timing. That can only mean one thing, i.e., that you really haven't done your own research in God's Word to know the timing.

What would your advice be... "Eat, drink and be merry" because the tribulation isn't here yet"?

Once again, by that reasoning, you reveal you haven't really studied enough of God's Word for yourself about it to be able to even discuss the matter.

I would say this.... The world is ripe for the picking. This is just the beginning.

Whatever you believe... you better be ready for the long lasting effects of this event.

How did our Lord Jesus and His Apostles teach us to 'be ready'? Do you know? I don't think you do. I'd say you allow the pre-trib rapture preachers to do most of your thinking for you. Is that an insult? No, not really. When some man tries to tell me I don't have to really study my Bible about the end, but just be ready (and they have said that before, I've been to those kind of churches), that is like telling me I don't have to heed my Lord Jesus' command...

Mark 13:35-37
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
KJV

Do those on a pre-trib rapture doctrine know what to be watching per our Lord Jesus? No, otherwise they would recognize the 7 Signs of the end He gave His Church there on the Mount of Olives. They're too busy watching LaHaye's movies with stars like Nicholas Cage, etc.

Davy · Mar 21, 2020

JacksBratt said:
Well, Davy... one thing that is true... you really do hate pre-trib belief..

You're right, I literally hate... the false pre-trib rapture doctrine of men. But I don't hate my brethren who love my Lord Jesus and His. If anything, my hating how brethren are being deceived by that false doctrine, because I know it's going to trap many in the end, is a show of love for the brethren by my speaking out. May not look like it now, but just you wait, or don't, I'd rather you appear as a "chaste virgin" to Jesus when He comes (2 Corinthians 11). Leaving that doctrine is part of the meaning to come out of the metaphorical Babylon (confusion) for the end (Rev.18:4).

What are you so worried about?

I'm not worried, I'm concerned for the well being of the deceived. This isn't some game, nor a TV show.

Tell me... What are you going to do for the 7 years where, since I believe you won't take the mark, what are you going to do for seven years when you cannot buy, sell, travel, work, feed yourself or your love ones, protect yourself or your family?

So, what's your plan for the scrolls and bowls of wrath?

You don't realize your Biblical ignorance, but just regurgitate ideas from the pre-trib rapture doctors.

Here is proof from God's Word that it is deceived folks like 'you' on a false pre-trib rapture doctrine from men, that is really scared...

Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, 'For Thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.'

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him That loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV

THAT... is the REAL Faith in Christ Jesus, being STRONG in The Faith, prepared... to make a STAND for Christ Jesus against His enemies, regardless of "tribulation, or distriss, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword"!

I remember attending a Church sermon by a retired preacher who preached on Ephesians 6. He said something like, "Now we don't really know what this 'evil day' is that Paul spoke of, but...". I wanted to raise my hand and shake it, because I well know what kind of day that is, and when. It's about the future tribulation. THAT is the day those in Christ are to make a 'stand' for Jesus, putting on the whole armor of God, so as to make that stand!

Our Lord Jesus is LOOKING for spiritual soldiers in Him for the end of this world, not wimp outs that want to fly away so they don't have to withstand the tribulation.

And for your info, the specific 'wrath' Paul said we, the Church, are not appointed to, is about God's cup of wrath poured out on the wicked on the last day, on the final 7th Vial (1 Thess.5). If you paid attention in the first part of that chapter and did your required study in the OT prophets beforehand, you'd have known that.

We can be right here on earth too and that day of God's wrath not affect us one bit! The example of that is the hot fiery furnace in Daniel 3 that was heated 7 times hotter than necessary. Neb saw a 4th Man in that furnace with God's servants, likened unto The Son of God. And when God's servants came out of that hot furnace, their clothes didn't even smell of smoke!

Our attitude for the end?

Should be the same as theirs...

Dan 3:17-18
17 If it be so, our God Whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
KJV

Davy · Mar 21, 2020

Brian Mcnamee said:
HI I am from a church that teaches pretrib and have watched from the late 70's many pre trib churches are in fact sharing the gospel and warning of the peril coming to the earth and more importantly the peril your soul is in without Jesus as Lord and savior. The proof of who is right will be when the man of sin is revealed as we can trade our scriptural basis. But as long as the gospel is the same I would not count your views as dangerous. One thing most Bible teaching churches share on this is that the anitchrist will be committing the abomination of desolation in the temple and the false prophet will roll out the image of the beast and the mark of the beast at that time and we will certainly eat humble pie in that day if we are still here but no way would we fall for his deception. We are on the same side and see the same events coming with one view of where will the church be at that time. We are brothers in the LORD either way and will come with Him when He comes and rule and reign with Him.

Sadly brother, some of our brethren will fall away to that coming false Messiah. Don't ask me why our Lord Jesus would allow that, but He and His Apostles did reveal it will happen. Yet I do not believe those who will be deceived will be ultimately lost by our Lord Jesus, simply because they did believe on Him at one time, but were not 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit to be prepared to make a stand in the end.

I would literally love it if our Lord Jesus pulled us out prior to the tribulation, but I know per His Word that is not His Plan. Battle, a spiritual battle, is what we are to be prepared for at the end, and it's soon coming. Only those strong in The Faith will be able to make a stand for Jesus in that coming time. Those of us who do, will represent the two candlesticks Jesus showed John in Revelation 11 that make a stand with God's two witnesses. At the end of Rev.1, our Lord Jesus defined the seven candlesticks as the seven Churches. Only two out of the seven will be prepared to make a stand in the tribulation.

ViaCrucis · Mar 21, 2020

JacksBratt said:
The Gospel is for those that believe by faith and for those that believe by sight..

We can only believe by faith in Christ on the cross.. His blood is what saves us.

Those in the tribulation will not have "faith". They will be actually witnessing the events of a spiritual and physical warfare.

They will still be saved by the work on the cross, as all of mankind is, but they will be choosing to follow Christ and die.. instead of taking the number of the beast and living a pseudo immortality.

Right now.. we have a choice to accept Christ or not.. there is no death threat. Just our faith in something that we have heard about.. and believe.

Those during the tribulation will choose physical death in order to gain eternal life. All paid for by Christs blood.

So... this would mean those who saw the risen Jesus didn't have faith? Peter, James, John, Mary, Paul? And therefore, weren't saved through the Gospel?

-CryptoLutheran

Davy · Mar 21, 2020

Bob Bridges said:
I have noticed that bit about "peace and safety", and wondered about it. But the reason I wondered is that there are other descriptions, too. Take a look at Luke 21:

There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

And Matthew 24:

....there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short....But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky....

I don't disagree with you about the significance of Paul's peace-and-safety description. But when two scriptures seem to contradict each other, we mustn't believe one and ignore the other; they both gotta be right. I just don't know how that works yet.

No contradiction there, we have to be careful to rightly divide.

In Luke 21, the events of signs in the sun and moon, and stars, distress of nations, sea and waves roaring, men's hearts failing for fear, for looking for those things coming upon the earth, ... all that is just PRIOR to Christ's return. It's about the "sorrows" and the tribulation.

But the event of the "powers of heaven shall be shaken", THAT event is about the event of Christ's coming on the "day of the Lord" and "as a thief in the night". That is the end of the 6th Seal timing, the 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial timing also. All those events happen on the day of Jesus' return.

Matthew 24 makes a distinction between those two timings also, i.e., what is to happen during the tribulation, and then what is to happen at the end, or immediately after the tribulation.

Thus there is no contradiction in The Scriptures there.

JacksBratt · Mar 21, 2020

SeventyOne said:
Oddly enough, this popped up in my YouTube feed this morning. It concerns how Jesus related His coming rapture for His Bride to the Galileeian wedding custom.

This is a great video.

Really cool was that Christ said what the groom says when he gets the cup back from the bride.

And, that the door is shut for 7 days and nights...

Thanks for posting that.

JacksBratt · Mar 21, 2020

com7fy8 said:
Time on earth does not decide how mature we are, but if we have grown in Christ, even for decades, why would we want to leave trib servants of God on their own, without us to be here for them?

Our Apostle Paul says he would be glad to depart to be with Jesus >

"Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you." (Philippians 1:24)

So, if we follow the example of Paul, we are willing to stay here on this earth in order to benefit other children of God who are here. It could be selfish, anti-love, for us to only care about our own selves so we desire to leave others here on their own. But, of course, when God has planned for us to leave, we obey this.

Now, in the pre-trib and post-trib discussion, it seems there is a lot of interpreting of words and claims about how to understand imagery, but I think principles of how the Bible says to love can help. And Paul's principle of love is he would be glad to go to Jesus and no longer suffer that tribulation that he suffered, but he was pleased to stay here so he could benefit children of God who still are here.

So, I consider that how God has us loving others as much as ourselves can fit with our being ready to stay here to help ones who become His children in the trib. And I think it is clear that if our Heavenly Father is able to take care of newborn servants in the trib, ones with not more than seven years of Christian experience, then surely He can take care of any of us more mature Christians. And it seems to me, how some number of people are claiming Jesus has to take us out because we would not be able to handle being in the trib. But God is able; this is about how He is able.

So, even if pre-trib were to be true, I think there are some un-Biblical reasons people are giving for it.

Which reasons are Biblical and which ones aren't? Which ones fit with Biblical principles of how to love and minister, and which do not?

We cannot save people.. never could, never will.. Only the desire that the person has in their heart, their attitude and their choices.

Once we have been raptured, we have done all we can. It's not about what we "want". If there are people that you are concerned about.. better do it now.

JacksBratt · Mar 21, 2020

Davy said:
A jab? If you don't know what God's Word really says as written, which has nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture, then you ought to know that means those pushing that doctrine don't have a leg to stand on. Acting as if they do makes the show of deception even more obvious.

It has nothing to do with 'my' view. Your question you should ask yourself, is, whether it is God's written Word or not, and then go search the Scriptures to find out for yourself, instead of going to ask your preacher, or default to one of Tim LaHaye's books or movies. (And yes, I find the pre-trib rapture materials, like LaHayes books and movies as abominations against The Word of God. So you can claim that as just my opinion too, but does God's Word show it as just opinion?)

If you believe a pre-trib rapture doctrine, then you are believing on a false belief, because no such rapture prior to the tribulation idea is written in God's Word.

Why don't you go digging a bit more before you latch onto a doctrine of man that goes against God's Word? You hint that you're not aware of the timing God's written Word shows is the gathering of the Church to Christ Jesus. You suggest doubt in your words as to the timing. That can only mean one thing, i.e., that you really haven't done your own research in God's Word to know the timing.

Once again, by that reasoning, you reveal you haven't really studied enough of God's Word for yourself about it to be able to even discuss the matter.

How did our Lord Jesus and His Apostles teach us to 'be ready'? Do you know? I don't think you do. I'd say you allow the pre-trib rapture preachers to do most of your thinking for you. Is that an insult? No, not really. When some man tries to tell me I don't have to really study my Bible about the end, but just be ready (and they have said that before, I've been to those kind of churches), that is like telling me I don't have to heed my Lord Jesus' command...

Mark 13:35-37
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
KJV

Do those on a pre-trib rapture doctrine know what to be watching per our Lord Jesus? No, otherwise they would recognize the 7 Signs of the end He gave His Church there on the Mount of Olives. They're too busy watching LaHaye's movies with stars like Nicholas Cage, etc.

Says you....

Today about 36% of Christians believe in a pre trib rapture... 4% believe in a mid trib and 18% believe in post... 25 believe there isn't one. 13% have other theories.

So, even though I have always said that truth is not a democracy... With a topic that has so much conflicting views... you are in the minority... So... maybe you should not be so arrogantly stating that it is OK to insult people for not agreeing with you.. Huh?

One thing that hurts the church more than having some timing wrong... IS... Fighting with other Christians and being belligerent and arrogantly rude about it.

Jamdoc · Mar 21, 2020

civilwarbuff said:
Really?....where in the Bible does it say that?

1 Thessalonians 5:9
The redeemed that will be on the earth during the 3 woes and the rest of God's wrath will be the sealed 144000.
Revelation 7:3 shows the Angels don't begin the wraths until the 144000 are sealed to protect them.

JacksBratt · Mar 21, 2020

Davy said:
You're right, I literally hate... the false pre-trib rapture doctrine of men. But I don't hate my brethren who love my Lord Jesus and His. If anything, my hating how brethren are being deceived by that false doctrine, because I know it's going to trap many in the end, is a show of love for the brethren by my speaking out. May not look like it now, but just you wait, or don't, I'd rather you appear as a "chaste virgin" to Jesus when He comes (2 Corinthians 11). Leaving that doctrine is part of the meaning to come out of the metaphorical Babylon (confusion) for the end (Rev.18:4).

I'm not worried, I'm concerned for the well being of the deceived. This isn't some game, nor a TV show.

You don't realize your Biblical ignorance, but just regurgitate ideas from the pre-trib rapture doctors.

Here is proof from God's Word that it is deceived folks like 'you' on a false pre-trib rapture doctrine from men, that is really scared...

Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, 'For Thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.'

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him That loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV

THAT... is the REAL Faith in Christ Jesus, being STRONG in The Faith, prepared... to make a STAND for Christ Jesus against His enemies, regardless of "tribulation, or distriss, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword"!

I remember attending a Church sermon by a retired preacher who preached on Ephesians 6. He said something like, "Now we don't really know what this 'evil day' is that Paul spoke of, but...". I wanted to raise my hand and shake it, because I well know what kind of day that is, and when. It's about the future tribulation. THAT is the day those in Christ are to make a 'stand' for Jesus, putting on the whole armor of God, so as to make that stand!

Our Lord Jesus is LOOKING for spiritual soldiers in Him for the end of this world, not wimp outs that want to fly away so they don't have to withstand the tribulation.

And for your info, the specific 'wrath' Paul said we, the Church, are not appointed to, is about God's cup of wrath poured out on the wicked on the last day, on the final 7th Vial (1 Thess.5). If you paid attention in the first part of that chapter and did your required study in the OT prophets beforehand, you'd have known that.

We can be right here on earth too and that day of God's wrath not affect us one bit! The example of that is the hot fiery furnace in Daniel 3 that was heated 7 times hotter than necessary. Neb saw a 4th Man in that furnace with God's servants, likened unto The Son of God. And when God's servants came out of that hot furnace, their clothes didn't even smell of smoke!

Our attitude for the end?

Should be the same as theirs...

Dan 3:17-18
17 If it be so, our God Whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
KJV

People don't usually get impolite, rude and insulting unless they are worried about something about their view being debated.

You come out of the gate swinging.... when there is not need to be. We're all Christians.. We're supposed to be shining in the Love of our savior.. Lights for the world..

You have just rang the bell to a boxing match...

No need... Unless your defensive.

nolidad · Mar 21, 2020

Davy said:
One of the things those on the false Pre-tribulational Rapture doctrine like to do to draw you into their false belief, is to present all kinds of doom and gloom events to fool you into thinking it is the end, and that Jesus is coming to suddenly rapture you out!

Thing is, that is NOT the kind of things that will be going on at the very end just prior to our Lord Jesus' coming to gather His Church. The coming tribulation at the end is to be a time of peace and safety for the deceived, not all out chaos and WWIII. See 1 Thessalonians 5 for what Apostle Paul taught on this. He showed that when 'they' say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them. He was talking about the events for the "day of the Lord", which happens on the LAST DAY of this present world when Jesus returns to gather His Church.

Jesus is NOT coming prior to the tribulation to gather us; He is coming immediately AFTER the tribulation to gather His Church (Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27; Revelation 16:15-17).

So forget all the Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye books and movies. They are absolute junk, not fit for the media they're printed on. Buying that junk is just padding their pockets with money. Stick to God's Word as written instead.

Isa 2:22
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
KJV

I agree we should forget Hal Lindsay and Tim Lahaye movies as a source of pre trib doctrine.

Yes there are a lot of pre trib preachers who see doom under every rock! But the fact is we are living in the last days because Israel has been restored to her homeland as prophesied many many times in Scripture!

If you understood the purpose for the tribulation you would realize that you are misquoting those verses to attribute them to the church!

Another side reason is that the believer in Christ has eternal security and God would not place the body of Christ in a place where they could lose their salvation by taking the mark!

Also if the church is not raptured till the end of the 70th week of Daniel (the tribulation) how can we be in heaven marrying Jesus?

Revelation 19 King James Version (KJV)
19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

This takes place right before Jesus returns! Sorry but a pre trib rapture , though not explicitly declared (though it is if you understand the word wrath in Thessalonians) is the only biblical answer that meets all the needed requirements of all the verses.

JacksBratt · Mar 21, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
So... this would mean those who saw the risen Jesus didn't have faith? Peter, James, John, Mary, Paul? And therefore, weren't saved through the Gospel?

-CryptoLutheran

What did Christ say to them?

John 20:29 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
29 Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.”

What is the definition of Faith?

From Wiki:

SCRIPTURAL DEFINITION
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11: 1

Beware of Pre-Tribbers Doomsday Hype

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Searching for Truth

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One of GODS Children I am a historicist

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Well-Known Member

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Confessional Lutheran

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Searching for Truth

Searching for Truth

Searching for Truth

Watching and Praying Always

Searching for Truth

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Searching for Truth

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