Beware of Pre-Tribbers Doomsday Hype

Original Happy Camper

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Jesus is coming to reign and rule on the earth. The scroll with the seven seals is a title deed of the land... The physical earth will be as it should have been before the fall of man. Instead of the first Adam ruling, it'll be the second Adam. Fulfilling the promises to Israel of the Messiah's Kingdom. The Throne of David.

Jesus said if the days of tribulation were not cut short there would be no flesh saved... The first resurrection will be us ruling and reigning with Him. The people who survive the tribulation will repopulate the physical Earth. Satan will be loosed at the end of the 1000 years because there will be a final testing for those born during the 1000 year reign, before we all enter eternity.

Probation closes prior to the second coming of Jesus. When Michael shall stand up is the close of probation.

As it was in the days of NOAH the door closed on the ark seven days prior to the flood.

You said "Jesus is coming to reign and rule on the earth." and you are absolutely right but only after New Jerusalem descends from heaven at the end of the 1000 years then after the lake of fire (wicked resurrected and destroyed) then the earth will be made new.
 
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Kenobi

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Probation closes prior to the second coming of Jesus. When Michael shall stand up is the close of probation.

As it was in the days of NOAH the door closed on the ark seven days prior to the flood.

You said "Jesus is coming to reign and rule on the earth." and you are absolutely right but only after New Jerusalem descends from heaven at the end of the 1000 years then after the lake of fire (wicked resurrected and destroyed) then the earth will be made new.

Hmm... Can you show me where you're getting that from?

There's countless pointing in the Bible to Messiah being on the earth reigning. Psalm 2 comes to mind.

But even in line with this topic... Revelation 20:9, Satan is bound in a bottomless pit (which some say is the center of the earth. The only place with no bottom, I don't spend a lot of time trying to figure out little things like this, though, just entertaining), and when he is released, he deceives many nation's. They cover the width of the earth and surround the camp of the saints.

I mean it sounds like they're talking about Earth.

Jesus comes down for the second coming. It doesn't say he came to lay smackdown just to leave to go to heaven... It's a coming down. Staying down. Then Jerusalem comes down. Stays down. The Godhead himself comes down. Stays down. Down where? Earth.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Hmm... Can you show me where you're getting that from?

There's countless pointing in the Bible to Messiah being on the earth reigning. Psalm 2 comes to mind.

But even in line with this topic... Revelation 20:9, Satan is bound in a bottomless pit (which some say is the center of the earth. The only place with no bottom, I don't spend a lot of time trying to figure out little things like this, though, just entertaining), and when he is released, he deceives many nation's. They cover the width of the earth and surround the camp of the saints.

I mean it sounds like they're talking about Earth.

Jesus comes down for the second coming. It doesn't say he came to lay smackdown just to leave to go to heaven... It's a coming down. Staying down. Then Jerusalem comes down. Stays down. The Godhead himself comes down. Stays down. Down where? Earth.

New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 years.

At the first resurrection it says the righteous are caught up in the cloud with Jesus, it does not say he touches down we go up to him.

John 14:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.



Micah 7

12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.

so when is the earth desolate?
 
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Original Happy Camper

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But even in line with this topic... Revelation 20:9, Satan is bound in a bottomless pit (which some say is the center of the earth. The only place with no bottom, I don't spend a lot of time trying to figure out little things like this, though, just entertaining), and when he is released, he deceives many nation's. They cover the width of the earth and surround the camp of the saints.

20:1-3 The Millennium: After Christ’s second coming, the earth is utterly desolate, a jagged smoldering ruin. The righteous have been taken to Heaven, and the wicked have been destroyed. 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

As the prophecy continues, John sees “an angel come down from heaven,” lay hold on Satan and bind him for “a thousand years.” Satan is alone with no one to ruin or deceive. He has a thousand years to reflect on the effects which sin has wrought, to behold the results of his rebellion, and to look forward with dread to the time when he will be punished for the evil he has done and the sins he has caused others to commit. At the end of the thousand years (commonly known as the “millennium”) he will be “loosed” for a short time.

20:7-10 At the end of the thousand years of the millennium, Jesus and His people, along with the holy City, the New Jerusalem, descend to the earth. Revelation 21:2. All the wicked who have ever lived are now resurrected in “the resurrection of damnation,” and “Satan” is “loosed out of his prison.” After his long incarceration, he now has all his subjects, the vast multitude of the lost, to tempt, deceive and torment. He then goes out “to deceive the nations” and “to gather them together to battle.” He persuades them that he has resurrected them from the grave by his own power. He convinces them that together they can conquer the New Jerusalem and overthrow God. Now plans are made, instruments of war constructed, and the armies of Satan Surround “The camp of the saints” and “the beloved city.”

Revelation 20 Commentary

When do we judge angels?

1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
 
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Kenobi

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New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 years.

At the first resurrection it says the righteous are caught up in the cloud with Jesus, it does not say he touches down we go up to him.

John 14:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.



Micah 7

12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.

so when is the earth desolate?

Right before he sets up his kingdom.

20:1-3 The Millennium: After Christ’s second coming, the earth is utterly desolate, a jagged smoldering ruin. The righteous have been taken to Heaven, and the wicked have been destroyed. 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

As the prophecy continues, John sees “an angel come down from heaven,” lay hold on Satan and bind him for “a thousand years.” Satan is alone with no one to ruin or deceive. He has a thousand years to reflect on the effects which sin has wrought, to behold the results of his rebellion, and to look forward with dread to the time when he will be punished for the evil he has done and the sins he has caused others to commit. At the end of the thousand years (commonly known as the “millennium”) he will be “loosed” for a short time.

20:7-10 At the end of the thousand years of the millennium, Jesus and His people, along with the holy City, the New Jerusalem, descend to the earth. Revelation 21:2. All the wicked who have ever lived are now resurrected in “the resurrection of damnation,” and “Satan” is “loosed out of his prison.” After his long incarceration, he now has all his subjects, the vast multitude of the lost, to tempt, deceive and torment. He then goes out “to deceive the nations” and “to gather them together to battle.” He persuades them that he has resurrected them from the grave by his own power. He convinces them that together they can conquer the New Jerusalem and overthrow God. Now plans are made, instruments of war constructed, and the armies of Satan Surround “The camp of the saints” and “the beloved city.”

Revelation 20 Commentary

When do we judge angels?

1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

I dunno if I'd use that commentary anymore... It says New Jerusalem comes down first, and the white throne judgment is second... It's reverse in the Bible
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Right before he sets up his kingdom.



I dunno if I'd use that commentary anymore... It says New Jerusalem comes down first, and the white throne judgment is second... It's reverse in the Bible

The Bible is not chronological

Sorry
Right before he sets up his kingdom.



I dunno if I'd use that commentary anymore... It says New Jerusalem comes down first, and the white throne judgment is second... It's reverse in the Bible

Corrected after original post
The Great White throne Judgment takes place in Heaven before the 1000 years, (how else would GOD know to seperate the wheat and the tares)the execution of the judgement takes place after the resurrection of the wicked and New Jerusalem is on earth.

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15 NKJV).
 
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civilwarbuff

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One thing that I worry about with pre trib rapture folks is that they're scared to die for the name of Jesus, they're scared to suffer the tribulations
Where did you come up with such nonsense?
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Right before he sets up his kingdom.



I dunno if I'd use that commentary anymore... It says New Jerusalem comes down first, and the white throne judgment is second... It's reverse in the Bible

I corrected my last post to you to read

Corrected after original post
The Great White throne Judgment takes place in Heaven before the 1000 years, (how else would GOD know to seperate the wheat and the tares)the execution of the judgement takes place after the resurrection of the wicked and New Jerusalem is on earth.
 
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JacksBratt

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Jesus said tribulation is a time of testing.

Revelation 3:10

It's also called the time of Jacob's trouble. Not the world's trouble, but Jacob's. It's never called Israel's trouble.

The Jacob/Israel usages aren't as interchangeable as people make it out to be... Jacob is always used to refer to Jacob acting in the flesh, and Israel when he was acting in the spirit

With that constancy, I do believe the time of tribulation will be a final testing of the nation Israel in the flesh.

Their blindedness will be released and they will realize who the Messiah was, repent to Him (144,000), preach the word of God, and just before Jerusalem is crushed by incoming armies, Jesus will return for the second time.

When Jesus returns for his church, it won't actually be a returning down, but a calling up.
This is true. That is why the church is removed. The time of Jacob's trouble will not effect the bride as it will be gone from the earth.
 
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JacksBratt

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Yeah, because of Revelation 20, 21, and 22.
We win in the end. That is the comfort.
We're spared from the 3 woes. THAT is the comfort.
You and I find comfort in different ways, that's for sure.
 
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JacksBratt

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At the end of 1000 years New Jerusalem descends from Heaven to the earth with all of GODS people and the wicked dead are resurrected (second resurrection) and satan is loosed to deceive again those that are lost and they surround the city to capture it then every knee shall bow to the LORD then they are cast into the lake of fire to be no more. We shall walk on their ashes. Sin is destroyed along with death.
That makes no sense. There is no need for him to deceive them again.
 
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JacksBratt

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type and anti-type

Did GODS people go through the plagues of Egypt?
Did GOD not protect them on the way to the promised land?
Did GODS people reach the promised land?
Christ never compares the end times to the time of Egypt.. Never..

He compares it to Noah and Lot..... Both of which were removed from the area of the destruction.
 
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JacksBratt

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Jesus is coming to reign and rule on the earth. The scroll with the seven seals is a title deed of the land... The physical earth will be as it should have been before the fall of man. Instead of the first Adam ruling, it'll be the second Adam. Fulfilling the promises to Israel of the Messiah's Kingdom. The Throne of David.

Jesus said if the days of tribulation were not cut short there would be no flesh saved... The first resurrection will be us ruling and reigning with Him. The people who survive the tribulation will repopulate the physical Earth. Satan will be loosed at the end of the 1000 years because there will be a final testing for those born during the 1000 year reign, before we all enter eternity.
I agree
 
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JacksBratt

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Trust in the LORD

Remember the mana that fell for forty years
So, how do the others not get this new manna? You think that God is going to miraculously keep the 2.2 billion Christians safe...and the rest of the world is going to obviously see that and not choose that miraculous in situ salvation over the beast?
 
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JacksBratt

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I corrected my last post to you to read

Corrected after original post
The Great White throne Judgment takes place in Heaven before the 1000 years, (how else would GOD know to seperate the wheat and the tares)the execution of the judgement takes place after the resurrection of the wicked and New Jerusalem is on earth.
Really?

Actually, when this time, the tribulation and the 1000 year reign is finished... that is when the great white throne judgement is carried out... That is the end of the road for all that denied Christ...

Then the old earth and the old heaven are passed away and the new earth is created while heaven descends on it.. This is where those who were found righteous, from all time... will exist with their creator for eternity.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Actually, when this time, the tribulation and the 1000 year reign is finished... that is when the great white throne judgement is carried out... That is the end of the road for all that denied Christ...

That is when the execution(sentence)of the judgment it is not the investigation to determine who is righteous or wicked..

So when were the folks deemed righteous or wicked?
 
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