Paul Enforces Animal Husbandry Law

HARK! said:

Nonsense.


Paul says very specifically That he is not without God's law, (Torah) He goes on to say that he legally belongs to Messiah; I infer as bride of Messiah.

PASSOVER
“And this day shall be unto youfor a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD {Yahweh} throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)

UNLEAVENED BREAD
“And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:17)

SHAVUOT (Feast of Weeks)
“And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute FOREVER in all your dwellings throughout your generations.” (Leviticus 23:21)

YOM KIPPUR
Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute FOREVER throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

FEAST OF TABERNACLES (Booths / Sukkot)
And ye shall keep it a feast unto YHWH seven days in the year. It shall be a statute FOREVER in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.(Leviticus 23:41)



Numerous New Testament examples show where people were intending to keep the Feasts, were keeping them, and would keep them again the in Kingdom. Those passages include: Luke 2:42; John 5:1; 7:2, 10, 14; 12:20; Matthew 26:2, 17, 29; Acts 18:21; and 1Corinthians 5:8.



Yahshua himself kept the feasts as he calls us to follow his example.



May each of us be like the Apostle Paul when he said clearly and with total resolve, "I must by all means keep this Feast!"

(CLV) Re 12:17
And the dragon is angry with the woman, and came away to do battle with the rest of her seed, who are keeping the precepts of God and who have the testimony of Jesus.

(CLV) Re 14:12
Here is the endurance of the saints, who are keeping the precepts of God and the faith of Jesus."

(CLV) Isa 2:2
And it will come to pass in the latter days, The Mount of the House of Yahweh shall be established on the summit of the mountains, And it shall be lifted up above the hills, And all the nations will stream unto it.

(CLV) Isa 2:3
Many peoples will come and say: Come, and let us ascend to the Mount of Yahweh, To the house of the Elohim of Jacob; And He shall direct us out of His ways, So that we may indeed walk in His paths. For from Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.

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DamianWarS said:

In context they are different. Paul is free from the law... So which law is he free from if not the torah? Rather than pull all sorts of verses in the NT to support your thinking let's make sure first the context can support this. And in the context it cannot God's law is different than the law and Paul is clear with this.

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and I became to the Jews as a Jew, that Jews I might gain; to those under law as under law, that those under law I might gain; to those without law, as without law — (not being without law to God, but within law to Christ) — that I might gain those without law

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Need answers said:

Could you cite the specific Acts 15 scripture?

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Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

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HARK! said:

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

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HARK! said:

In context:

Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 8

Continued from: Romans Chapter 7

Romans 8 (CLV)
1 Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, 2 for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

Notice the word consequently. This passage is a conclusion, predicated on the scripture that we have read thus far.

I hadn't noticed it, until I started dissecting this book for understanding; but Paul has a very interesting way of making his points. Up until now he has, for the most part, been defining his point. He lays out the definitions, without laying out the terms first. It has taken him seven preceding chapters, to bring us to the terms of his point.

Paul has revealed two more laws in this chapter.

There are two laws here. Some see the word law, in this letter; and are indoctrinated to believe that it could mean only one thing; that the Torah is abolished. One can't even understand the writings of Paul without understanding the Torah. He said so himself in chapter seven.

Following one of these laws leads to life.

Following the other leads to death.

For those who misunderstand Paul in saying that were not under THE law; which of these two laws do you suppose is according to YHWH's will?

You will choose one. That is the only choice you have. We are either under one law or another. We are all under A law.

Which of these two laws would you suppose is in line with obedience to YHWH's law (Torah) which Yahshua followed; as he told us to follow his example?

3 For what was impossible to the law, in which it was infirm through the flesh, did God, sending His own Son in the likeness of sin's flesh and concerning sin, He condemns sin in the flesh,

The Law of Sin and Death

4 that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit."

The Law of Faith
The Law of God (Torah)
The Spirit's Law of Life

5 For those who are in accord with flesh are disposed to that which is of the flesh,

The Law of Sin and Death

yet those who are in accord with spirit to that which is of the spirit."

The Law of Faith
The Law of God (Torah)
The Spirit's Law of Life

6 For the disposition of the flesh is death,

The Law of Sin and Death

yet the disposition of the spirit is life and peace,

The Law of Faith
The Law of God (Torah)
The Spirit's Law of Life

7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able." 8 Now those who are in flesh are not able to please God.

The Law of Sin and Death

If you are in the flesh; you are hostile to YHWH. If you are in the flesh; you will not obey his Torah; nor are you able. The Ruach Ha'Kodesh leads us out of the flesh, through circumcision of the heart.

9 Yet you are not in flesh, but in spirit, if so be that God's spirit is making its home in you.

The Law of Faith
The Law of God (Torah)
The Spirit's Law of Life


Now if anyone has not Christ's spirit, this one is not His."

The Law of Sin and Death

10 Now if Christ is in you, the body, indeed, is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is life because of righteousness."


What is Righteousness?

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

The Law of Faith
The Law of God (Torah)
The Spirit's Law of Life

11 Now if the spirit of Him Who rouses Jesus from among the dead is making its home in you, He Who rouses Christ Jesus from among the dead will also be vivifying your mortal bodies because of His spirit making its home in you."

The Law of Faith
The Law of God (Torah)
The Spirit's Law of Life

12 Consequently, then, brethren, debtors are we, not to the flesh, to be living in accord with flesh, 13 for if you are living in accord with flesh, you are about to be dying.

The Law of Sin and Death

Yet if, in spirit, you are putting the practices of the body to death, you will be living." 14 For whoever are being led by God's spirit, these are sons of God." 15 For you did not get slavery's spirit to fear again, but you got the spirit of sonship, in which we are crying, "Abba, Father!" 16 The spirit itself is testifying together with our spirit that we are children of God. 17 Yet if children, enjoyers also of an allotment, enjoyers, indeed, of an allotment from God, yet joint enjoyers of Christ's allotment, if so be that we are suffering together, that we should be glorified together also." 18 For I am reckoning that the sufferings of the current era do not deserve the glory about to be revealed for us. 19 For the premonition of the creation is awaiting the unveiling of the sons of God.

The Law of Faith
The Law of God (Torah)
The Spirit's Law of Life


20 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation"

The Law of Sin and Death

21 that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God." 22 For we are aware that the entire creation is groaning and travailing together until now. 23 Yet not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the spirit, we ourselves also, are groaning in ourselves, awaiting the sonship, the deliverance of our body." 24 For to expectation were we saved. Now expectation, being observed, is not expectation, for what anyone is observing, why is he expecting it also? 25 Now, if we are expecting what we are not observing, we are awaiting it with endurance." 26 Now, similarly, the spirit also is aiding our infirmity, for what we should be praying for, to accord with what must be, we are not aware, but the spirit itself is pleading for us with inarticulate groanings." 27 Now He Who is searching the hearts is aware what is the disposition of the spirit, for in accord with God is it pleading for the saints." 28 Now we are aware that God is working all together for the good of those who are loving God, who are called according to the purpose" 29 that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren." 30 Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also." 31 What then, shall we declare to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 Surely, He Who spares not His own Son, but gives Him up for us all, how shall He not, together with Him, also, be graciously granting us all? 33 Who will be indicting God's chosen ones? God, the Justifier? 34 Who is the Condemner? Christ Jesus, the One dying, yet rather being roused, Who is also at God's right hand, Who is pleading also for our sakes? 35 What shall be separating us from the love of God in Christ Jesus? Affliction, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 According as it is written that "On Thy account we are being put to death the whole day, We are reckoned as sheep for slaughter." 37 Nay! in all these we are more than conquering through Him Who loves us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor messengers, nor sovereignties, nor the present, nor what is impending, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord."

The Law of Faith
The Law of God (Torah)
The Spirit's Law of Life

Hallelu YAH!



Legal Terms:

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)


Roman Chapter 9

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HARK! said:

In context:

Paul on the Law: Galatians 5

Continued from: Paul on the Law: Galatians 4


Galatians 5 (CLV)
1 For freedom Christ frees us! Stand firm, then, and be not again enthralled with the yoke of slavery."

What is Messiah freeing us from? Is it YHWH's Law?

Where in scripture can we find that YHWH's law is slavery?

(CLV) Ja 1:25
Now he who peers into the perfect law, that of freedom, and abides, not becoming a forgetful listener, but a doer of the work, this one will be happy in his doing.

That doesn't sound like slavery.

What does Paul say about the law?

(CLV) Ro 7:12
So that the law, indeed, is holy, and the precept holy and just and good.

What might this bondage be?

Let's look at this letter in context. After all, it was written to be read as a letter, not a sound byte.

CLV) Ga 2:4
Yet, it was because of the false brethren who were smuggled in, whoa came in by the way to spy out our freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they shall be enslaving us-

Ahh! I see. We're back to the Pharisees, and the traditions of men.
Paul on the Law: Galatians 2

(CLV) Ga 4:3
Thus we also, when we were minors, were enslaved under the elements of the world.Paul on the Law: Galatians 4

Ah yes, and the elements of the world. That's in opposition to the Law of YHWH
The word "again" in that verse, settles it. The Galatians weren't Torah observant before Paul, so they couldn't return to the Torah, if they didn't come from it.

Clearly again, Paul did not abolish YHWH's Law.


2 Lo! I, Paul, am saying to you that if you should be circumcising, Christ will benefit you nothing." 3 Now I am attesting again to every man who is circumcising, that he is a debtor to do the whole law."

Again, in context to the Pharisees. Paul is reminding the Galatians that if you are to be saved by the law; you must keep all of the law perfectly.

4 Exempted from Christ were you who are being justified in law. You fall out of grace.

Is Paul saying that by keeping YHWH's law through faith that we fall from grace? Of course not!

(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.

5 For we, in spirit, are awaiting the expectation of righteousness by faith."

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision is availing anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith, operating through love."

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.


(CLV) Jn 15:10
If ever you should be keeping My precepts, you will be remaining in My love, according as I have kept the precepts of My Father and am remaining in His love.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:5
Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


(CLV) 2Jn 1:6
And this is love, that we may be walking according to His precepts. This is the precept, according as you hear from the beginning, that you may be walking in it;

7 You raced ideally! Who hinders you not to be persuaded by the truth? 8 This persuasion is not of Him Who is calling you. 9 A little leaven is leavening the whole kneading. 10 I have confidence in you in the Lord that in nothing you will be disposed otherwise. Now he who is disturbing you shall be bearing his judgment, whosoever he may be." 11 Now I, brethren, if I am still heralding circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? Consequently the snare of the cross of Christ has been nullified." 12 Would that those who are raising you to insurrection struck themselves off also! 13 For you were called for freedom, brethren, only use not the freedom for an incentive to the flesh, but through love be slaving for one another." 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself." 15 Now if you are biting and devouring one another, beware that you may not be consumed by one another." 16 Now I am saying, Walk in spirit, and you should under no circumstances be consummating the lust of the flesh." 17 For the flesh is lusting against the spirit, yet the spirit against the flesh. Now these are opposing one another, lest you should be doing whatever you may want."

Lawlessness

Is the Spirit of YHWH in opposition to the Law of YHWH?

Of course not.

Verse 5 just stated that in the spirit we are awaiting righteousness, that is obedience to the law.


(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.


18 Now, if you are led by spirit, you are not still under law."

(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

Which law do you suppose you are not under, when led by the Ruach HaKodesh?

(CLV) Ezk 36:26
I will give you a new heart, And a new spirit will I bestow within you, And I will take away the heart of stone from your flesh, And I will give you a heart of flesh.

(CLV) Ezk 36:27
My spirit shall I bestow within you, And I will make it that you shall walk in My statutes and observe My ordinances, And you will obey them.

If you are of the spirit you aren't under the law; as you aren't under sin. You're obedient to the law.

This was covered Here: Paul on the Law: Galatians 4


Romans 7
14 For we are aware that the law is spiritual, yet I am fleshly, having been disposed of under Sin." 15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing." 16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal."

19 Now apparent are the works of the flesh, which are adultery, prostitution, uncleanness, wantonness, 20 idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissensions, sects, 21 envies, murders, drunkennesses, revelries, and the like of these, which, I am predicting to you, according as I predicted also, that those committing such things shall not be enjoying the allotment of the kingdom of God."

Because they continued breaking YHWH's law; therefore they were under the law. They were slaves of sin. They were in the flesh.

22 Now the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 meekness, self-control: against such things there is no law." 24 Now those of Christ Jesus crucify the flesh together with its passions, and lusts." 25 If we may be living in spirit, in spirit we may be observing the elements also." 26 We may not become vainglorious, challenging one another, envying another."



Hallelu YAH!



Paul on the Law: Galatians 6

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Dkh587 said:

Acts of the Apostles 15:19-21


James decreed to give them a few starting commands, and that they would learn the law of Moses/God when they went into the synagogues every Sabbath. They would learn and grow as they gathered every Sabbath.

The original assembly of followers of Messiah, even the concerted Gentiles, did not go to church on Sunday. They kept the Sabbath of God.

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Dkh587 said:

What Paul is teaching needs to be understood in the context of the law of Moses & the law of God being the same.

Paul is free from the oral law of the Pharisees/elders. He clearly says “I am not free from the law of God”, which is also the law of Moses, as evidenced above by several witnesses, in both the OT & NT.

The law of God is different from the law of Pharisees

The law of God is not different from the law of Moses

The law of Moses is not the law of Pharisees

The law of Moses is the law of God

this is how the Young’s Literal Translation translates it. Note that the word “the” isn’t there in the manuscripts. It only says “law”.

1 Corinthians 9:21-22


Paul refers to 3 different groups of people here: Jews, those under law, and those without law(Gentiles)

Jews
Gentiles
???

who is the 3rd group of people?

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HARK! said:

Isaiah 40:8

The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.

There are some laws that apply to women. I'm not a woman. There are some laws that apply to Levites. To my knowledge; I'm not a Levite.

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HARK! said:

How is what I believe, relevant to what this chapter says?

I'll tell you what I don't believe.

I don't believe that Paul was a schizophrenic.

I don't believe that Paul was a heretic.

I don't believe that Paul contradicted neither himself, nor Yahshua, nor the Torah.

You'll have to work night and day to make me believe otherwise.

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Bible Highlighter said:

The priesthood and the Law has changed (See: Hebrews 7:12).

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pasifika said:

Great verse...I was looking for this verse...
Thanks

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HARK! said:

(CLV) 1Co 9:8
Not according to man am I speaking these things. Or is the law not also saying these things?

According to who then?

The what? The law? What law?

(CLV) 1Co 9:9
For in the law of Moses it is written: "You shall not muzzle the threshing ox." Not for oxen is the care of God!

So Paul is quoting YHWH's authoritative word?

Where did he get this, in a vision after Yahshua ascended?


(CLV) Dt 25:4
You shall not muzzle a bull when it threshes.

The TORAH?!?

(CLV) 1Co 9:10
Or is He undoubtedly saying it because of us? Because of us, for it was written that the plower ought to be plowing in expectation, and the thresher to partake of his expectation.

Wait! What's this? Paul is not only quoting of the 613; but he's applying it in a way that is deeper than what is actually written. HE'S SAYING IT BECAUSE OF US? We actually have to listen to YHWH's Torah?!? Where is he getting this? Was it written on his heart?

(CLV) 1Co 9:11
If, in expectation, we sow the spiritual in you, is it a great thing if we shall reap of your fleshly things?

Fleshly things? That sounds like works of the law.

(CLV) 1Co 9:12
If others are partaking of this right from you, are not rather we? Nevertheless we do not use this right, but we are forgoing all, lest we may be giving any hindrance to the evangel of Christ.

Wait a minute! Is Paul saying that if we don't obey YHWH's law, at even a deeper level than it is written; and actually do works of the Law; that the evangel of Messiah may be hindered?

That sounds awfully legalistic. So many have told me that I didn't have to do a thing except lay back and enjoy the grace.

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DamianWarS said:

Paul is unraveling his missiology, he begins with Jews but then zooms out to those under the law and zooms out again to those not under the law and zooms out even more with the weak. There is no need to assign a unique group of people to these ranks, Paul is indiscriminately addressing all but the unspecified term "law" should be looked at as the law of Moses and anything else would just be more broad rather than specific. Suggesting this "third" group is the Pharisees fits but it's not uniquely them (Pharisees also fit the weak, as well as the Jews) it misses the point when we force it this way. This idea that Paul could not have been referring to the law of Moses is desperate and you would be the first I've heard to suggest this. Paul identifies the law and God's Law which he equates with Christ's law but more specifically he is talking about being under Christ.

The terms in the texts are adjectives for law essentially without-law and with-law and used to modify "those" as in those without law or those with law. The words are not to identify what law it's talking about but a rather lawless people or law-ed people and it becomes more clear when used with Christ as it is a law-ed people of Christ. The unspecified use of law or law concepts should however be somewhat implicit referring to the Torah rather than other laws. The translations communicates this well and there really is no need to look deep into the words used as the meanings are transferable to English and are plain.

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dqhall said:

Paul did not muzzle an ox threshing the grain. This was merciful. It is possible to find good things in the law, like not murdering, not stealing, not doing adultery and not lying.

Christians are freed from the burden of animal sacrifice laws. It is possible some Torah laws are unrighteousness such as these:

Leviticus 9:3-4
"Then to the sons of Israel you shall speak, saying, 'Take a male goat for a sin offering, and a calf and a lamb, both one year old, without defect, for a burnt offering, and an ox and a ram for peace offerings, to sacrifice before the LORD, and a grain offering mixed with oil; for today the LORD will appear to you.'"

No church does these things. Even Jews do not obey these laws anymore. I do not need to kill a goat as a sin offering, or slaughter animals that I do not eat.

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