Regeneration before or after saving faith

Hammster said:

You need to read the story. This was before Isaac was born.

Abraham believed the gospel that was revealed to him.

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And acted accordingly. "Go to a place I will show you." And he went. Had he not gone, his belief would have been irrelevant and unsubstantiated. There are several places where Abraham was counted as righteous and each time was when he did what God commanded. Abraham trusted God's word and obeyed. That's what faith causes. God did not provide Abraham with faith, he provided him promises and commands which Abraham of his own will responded to as James explains in his letter and as Paul explains in the entire eleventh chapter of Hebrews.

Hammster said:

Paul even makes the point that it was before the law, before circumcision, so actions had nothing to with it.

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No, the LAW had nothing to do with it. Abraham was justified by his faith and trust in God because he DID what God asked of him even before there was a law of Moses.

BBAS 64 said:

Good Day, Al

Adding to the text will lead you wrong conclusions and error.

No translation uses the word act in Gen 15:6. Why is does it seem you have a difficult time reading what the text actually say ..Instead of reading into the text what you hope it would say?

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It doesn't have to use that word. It says he did what God asked him to do. His belief caused him to act.

Genesis 12
4 So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him, and Lot went with him. And Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.

Abraham's belief caused him to obey. Your error is in thinking that God's imputation of righteousness is unrelated to Abraham's obedience.

Hammster said:

You really are misreading that scripture. And what Paul says. You are doing this to prop up your tradition.

Stick with what it says.

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I am sticking with what it says. I haven't misread. The scripture shows us that Abraham responded with action.

Hammster said:

That’s because we believe what scripture actually says. We don’t need to twist it to support our theology.

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You don't believe it. You dismiss scripture that doesn't conform with your belief.

Al Touthentop said:

It doesn't have to use that word. It says he did what God asked him to do. His belief caused him to act.

Genesis 12
4 So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him, and Lot went with him. And Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.

Abraham's belief caused him to obey. Your error is in thinking that God's imputation of righteousness is unrelated to Abraham's obedience.

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Good Day, Al

I will stick with what the text says, as compared to that which you hope it said.

And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

IN Him,

Bill

Al Touthentop said:

Well he says that he was convinced by their receiving of the Holy Spirit. And it says that this happened "as he began speaking."

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He does not say that he was convinced. The word convinced is not in the entire chapter. Which version are you reading?

Hammster said:

I have no idea. I’m not going to go looking.

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I'll list the post numbers and then perhaps you can tell me where to begin.

Hammster said:

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Posts 42, 114, 118, 122, 158, 231

Hammster said:

Regeneration before or after saving faith

Good start.

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Which one should I start with?

BNR32FAN said:

He does not say that he was convinced. The word convinced is not in the entire chapter. Which version are you reading?

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15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”

Peter doesn't need to use the word convinced. He plainly says with these words that he was convinced that he was to deliver the gospel to these Gentiles because they had been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

If I told you that you need to put air in that rubber thing around the wheel on your car, you'd know I was talking about the tire though I hadn't used that word.

Hammster said:

Show my one verse that says he was justified by doing something.

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8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the