Beware of Pre-Tribbers Doomsday Hype

Davy said:

Christ's faithful are to reign with Him, on the earth, not up in the sky.

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV

Going against God's Word as written because of ignorance is one thing. But doing it because of wanting to keep a doctrine of man is another thing entirely, and I don't see any future in doing that.

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Is this a response to my post, or someone else's???

Lady Bug said:

In the Bible it seems that when Jesus comes back it will be a loud return, not a quiet secret one. The thing I can't reconcile yet is, what about the first resurrection and the second resurrection and the thousand year gap between the two resurrections as stated in Revelation?

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This will help you with your question.

Resurrections - Powered by Kayako Resolve Help Desk Software

Original Happy Camper said:

This will help you with your question.

Resurrections - Powered by Kayako Resolve Help Desk Software

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Ok. Thank you. I'm not well versed enough in this subject to put the pieces of the puzzle together yet.

Davy said:

One of the things those on the false Pre-tribulational Rapture doctrine like to do to draw you into their false belief, is to present all kinds of doom and gloom events to fool you into thinking it is the end, and that Jesus is coming to suddenly rapture you out!

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I didn't read anything of your post, after what I have shown above...

What kind of nonsense are you spouting? Just an excuse to take a jab at people that hold a different view than you do?

I am one of the so called "Pre-Tribbers"... And.. I have not once used this to "draw" anyone in to a false belief.

In fact, I haven't heard one person state that "The Rapture is coming" due to this event... We are all aware that it is coming.. you and me... we still just disagree on the timing.

What would your advice be... "Eat, drink and be merry" because the tribulation isn't here yet"?

I would say this.... The world is ripe for the picking. This is just the beginning.

Whatever you believe... you better be ready for the long lasting effects of this event.

SeventyOne said:

And on that note, look up for your redemption draws near. The Bridegroom will come for His Bride prior to His wrath is poured out on the earth.

Don't allow people like this to steal your hope with their lies.

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Winner post...

Handmaid for Jesus said:

Even so, come Lord Jesus!

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Absolutely....

Davy said:

I work with a brother who has something like 13 books by LaHaye, and just by me showing him Bible Scripture he has never even read, he is having doubts about what he has been taught. And his father was a pre-trib rapture preacher. Will he denounce his belief on a pre-trib rapture? Probably not, but at least he will probably read the Scriptures more carefully, if he is brave enough to get down to it. Folks just don't like to mess with their comforts, and that includes a false tradition they've been taught all their life.

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Well, Davy... one thing that is true... you really do hate pre-trib belief..

What are you so worried about?

Tell me... What are you going to do for the 7 years where, since I believe you won't take the mark, what are you going to do for seven years when you cannot buy, sell, travel, work, feed yourself or your love ones, protect yourself or your family?

So, what's your plan for the scrolls and bowls of wrath?

civilwarbuff said:

You go right ahead and believe that but it would not be much of a tribulation if it were all 'peace and safety '. It will, quite literally, be hell on earth and I can find no reason why Jesus would leave His Church here to suffer through it.....but please continue with your exegesis as it is at least somewhat entertaining......

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Hear hear... fine sir.. well put.

SeventyOne said:

Isaiah 26 shows we are gathered before the Lord even begins to shower the earth with His wrath, and Revelation 12 shows us being raptured even before Israel flees to the wilderness for 3 1/2 years. Jesus even tells us that when we see the things even start coming on the earth, we are to pray we are worth to escape and instead stand before Him.

So yea, the interpretation that we will go through the Trib is a complete lie.

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We are promised deliverance from His wrath. The wrath starts at the Sixth Seal.

Revelation 6
12When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale.14The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slaved and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

We will go through the first five seals

Anthony2019 said:

All I remember about the film "Left Behind" was the dreadful acting.

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If only that were the worst part of it.

-CryptoLutheran

SeventyOne said:

Don't allow people like this to steal your hope with their lies.

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My hope is Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, buried, dead, risen from the dead, victorious over sin, death, hell, and the devil. Who ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and who will return, in glory, to judge the living and the dead, and bring with Him His everlasting kingdom, World without end.

The Gospel is hope.
Jesus Christ is hope.
God's grace is hope.

The "rapture" is nonsense.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

If only that were the worst part of it.

-CryptoLutheran

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Yes, you've probably gathered I do not believe in the pre-tribulation rapture!

SeventyOne said:

Isaiah 26 shows we are gathered before the Lord even begins to shower the earth with His wrath, and Revelation 12 shows us being raptured even before Israel flees to the wilderness for 3 1/2 years. Jesus even tells us that when we see the things even start coming on the earth, we are to pray we are worth to escape and instead stand before Him.

So yea, the interpretation that we will go through the Trib is a complete lie.

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Agreed

ViaCrucis said:

My hope is Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, buried, dead, risen from the dead, victorious over sin, death, hell, and the devil. Who ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and who will return, in glory, to judge the living and the dead, and bring with Him His everlasting kingdom, World without end.

The Gospel is hope.
Jesus Christ is hope.
God's grace is hope.

The "rapture" is nonsense.

-CryptoLutheran

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I really don't care what anyone thinks of the timing of the rapture... However, I really truly believe that it is sad that someone would write a thread or a post directly condemning someone for a belief that is different than theirs.

Seriously, we are all Christ's children... some believe in a pre-trib rapture, some believe "post" trib.. some don't even believe that there is one.. some think all of this has already happened.


But.. I'm not going to post a thread that states "All those "post-trib" idiots are going to steer you wrong".....

That's just picking a fight...

Still didn't answer what your plans are for 3.5 to seven years of running, hiding, scavenging, looking for shelter, not trusting even your best friends and family cause they'll turn you in...All the while they are killing 2.2 billion Christians...

Lady Bug said:

In the Bible it seems that when Jesus comes back it will be a loud return, not a quiet secret one. The thing I can't reconcile yet is, what about the first resurrection and the second resurrection and the thousand year gap between the two resurrections as stated in Revelation?

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Keep in mind that the only reference to two resurrections and the thousand years is found in the Apocalypse of St. John, aka the Revelation. A book which is filled to the brim with figurative, graphic language. Notice that it describes Christ returning riding on a white horse with a sword coming out of His mouth. It also mentions multi-headed monsters, human-faced locusts, and a lake of burning sulfur. It's not supposed to be taken literally.

Everywhere else in Scripture that mentions the resurrection speaks of a general resurrection, of both the righteous and the wicked.

So why does the Revelation mention a "first resurrection" and a "second resurrection"?

One historic interpretation is that the "first resurrection" is our Baptism, look to how Scripture talks about Baptism as our sharing in Christ's resurrection life, being born anew to God, etc. So we share in the first resurrection by our new birth in Christ by the Spirit. But at Christ's return as judge of the living and the dead, we are raised up bodily. This is The Resurrection. At the resurrection of the dead we are raised up, bodily, being transformed and transfigured, from mortality to immortality. But it is not only a resurrection of the righteous, it is also a resurrection of the wicked, but the wicked are raised not to that good and future life, but to judgment.

The thousand years, likewise, isn't literal. Look to what St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15, where he writes that Christ must reign until all enemies are made subject to Him, and that when He comes and in the end, He delivers all things--including the kingdom--to the Father, and God is all-in-all. When the Lord ascended into heaven He took His seat at the right hand of the Father, having received all power, dominion, and authority, the Son of Man coming into His kingdom. And He reigns, from the right hand of the Father, until He returns as judge, and that is the end, when all is delivered to God, and God makes all things new.

A great deal of problems arise when we try and build our eschatological ideas from the Revelation, rather than using the the general consensus of Scripture. The Revelation needs to be read in light of the rest of Scripture, not the other way around.

-CryptoLutheran

JacksBratt said:

Still didn't answer what your plans are for 3.5 to seven years of running, hiding, scavenging, looking for shelter, not trusting even your best friends and family cause they'll turn you in...All the while they are killing 2.2 billion Christians...

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Since I don't believe in "3.5 to seven years" of "tribulation", it's not something that I put thought into.

As for whatever the future brings, Christ our God has told us to not worry about tomorrow, for today's troubles are enough to be concerned with. I have faith in the God of heaven and earth, in whose very capable hands all things reside.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Since I don't believe in "3.5 to seven years" of "tribulation", it's not something that I put thought into.

As for whatever the future brings, Christ our God has told us to not worry about tomorrow, for today's troubles are enough to be concerned with. I have faith in the God of heaven and earth, in whose very capable hands all things reside.

-CryptoLutheran

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Fair enough.... I was really trying to get an answer out of Davy.

I still don't think we should ridicule those that have different beliefs than our own.

Intelligent, educated, biblical Christians, with far more scriptural knowledge than I, have argued this ad nauseam.

Doubt if anyone here is going to change my mind.

Berean Tim said:

We are promised deliverance from His wrath. The wrath starts at the Sixth Seal.

Revelation 6
12When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale.14The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slaved and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

We will go through the first five seals

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That is the day those on Earth will recognize the wrath for themselves, but the actual wrath started at the first seal.

ViaCrucis said:

My hope is Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, buried, dead, risen from the dead, victorious over sin, death, hell, and the devil. Who ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and who will return, in glory, to judge the living and the dead, and bring with Him His everlasting kingdom, World without end.

The Gospel is hope.
Jesus Christ is hope.
God's grace is hope.

The "rapture" is nonsense.

-CryptoLutheran

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I understand. Peter even told that in the end there will be scoffers saying 'Where is the promise of His coming?' and ' All things are like they were from the beginning.' Your response isn't unexpected.

Davy said:

I work with a brother who has something like 13 books by LaHaye, and just by me showing him Bible Scripture he has never even read, he is having doubts about what he has been taught. And his father was a pre-trib rapture preacher. Will he denounce his belief on a pre-trib rapture? Probably not, but at least he will probably read the Scriptures more carefully, if he is brave enough to get down to it. Folks just don't like to mess with their comforts, and that includes a false tradition they've been taught all their life.

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HI I am from a church that teaches pretrib and have watched from the late 70's many pre trib churches are in fact sharing the gospel and warning of the peril coming to the earth and more importantly the peril your soul is in without Jesus as Lord and savior. The proof of who is right will be when the man of sin is revealed as we can trade our scriptural basis. But as long as the gospel is the same I would not count your views as dangerous. One thing most Bible teaching churches share on this is that the anitchrist will be committing the abomination of desolation in the temple and the false prophet will roll out the image of the beast and the mark of the beast at that time and we will certainly eat humble pie in that day if we are still here but no way would we fall for his deception. We are on the same side and see the same events coming with one view of where will the church be at that time. We are brothers in the LORD either way and will come with Him when He comes and rule and reign with Him.