What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians? (Please no debating or criticism)

Charlie24 · Mar 18, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Right, and you have to prove that the things in my list are man made laws not based in Scripture. I would say you have not read your Bible if you are making such a claim or you have chosen interpretations that completely by-pass what Scripture plainly says.

It doesn't matter if you observe the law of Moses, the commandment of Christ, or make a list of your own combining all of these.

It is still law that you have set to observe and to do.

Paul said that "grace is no more of works."

yeshuaslavejeff · Mar 18, 2020

Charlie24 said:
That's because He was under the law just as any other man, Jesus was the last prophet under the law.

That's why Paul was given almost 1/3 of the NT scripture, to explain the law and grace.

The New Covenant is still law keeping but not by our doing, it's by the Spirit's doing through faith in what Christ did at Calvary.

The errors you continue to post are well-known, yes.

If someone transgresses without repenting, transgressions is law breaking,
then they may not have a chance to repent ever, and perhaps never get saved.

Charlie24 · Mar 18, 2020

OK guys, you want to validate your law keeping, go ahead.

I have shown you what grace is and what Paul has said about it.

I'm finished with this thread.

yeshuaslavejeff · Mar 18, 2020

Charlie24 said:
It doesn't matter if you observe the law of Moses, the commandment of Christ, or make a list of your own combining all of these.

It is still law that you have set to observe and to do.

Paul said that "grace is no more of works."

Do what Yahweh says.
Just do not expect or trust to be "saved by keeping the law".

If you disobey the law, you sin, and will have a penalty that must be paid

yeshuaslavejeff · Mar 18, 2020

Charlie24 said:
The New Covenant is still law keeping but not by our doing, it's by the Spirit's doing through faith in what Christ did at Calvary.

It is not law-keeping if you choose to disobey the law.

yeshuaslavejeff · Mar 18, 2020

Charlie24 said:
OK guys, you want to validate your law keeping, go ahead.

I have shown you what grace is and what Paul has said about it.

I'm finished with this thread.

Again, you mis-represent our posts and your own choices. epic fail on your part.

You showed nothing of the truth about Grace nor what Paul says, that is what Yahweh says through Paul and all the other Apostles.

Looks like you were finished, had your mind made up , before this year, before you even started in this thread.

yeshuaslavejeff · Mar 18, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
You don't know how many times "Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationists" have wrongfully quoted James 2:10 to me out of its context to me. Let's just say it is a lot, and it is rather sad because they are not reading the surrounding verses to get the context but they are just blindly quoting James 2:10 from their own slanted view within a vacuum.

Actually maybe not in a vacuum.
The whole church someone goes to may be telling them such errors, and they don't bother testing the wrong teachings/teachers/pastors or priests
by Scripture, as Scripture says clearly -
so instead of a vacuum/ empty/ with no one else,
the have their compadres/ the approval of others ,
that they prefer to God's Approval,
and they continue with others instead of seeking God, repenting, or doing what is right ?

Bible Highlighter · Mar 18, 2020

Charlie24 said:
It doesn't matter if you observe the law of Moses, the commandment of Christ, or make a list of your own combining all of these.

It is still law that you have set to observe and to do.

Paul said that "grace is no more of works."

And in context, Paul was talking to the Jew who needed to be saved. Paul was talking about the "Law of Moses" and "Law Alone Salvationism" in Romans 11:6. You are ripping verses out of their context and seeing what you want to see.

The context is Israel who needed God's grace.

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite,..." (Romans 11:1).

"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded" (Romans 11:7).

We are to stand by faith, and continue in God's goodness, otherwise we can be cut off.

"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:20-22).

Continuing in the faith is not only believing those words on God's grace in NT Scripture, but it is believing by faith those words in NT Scripture on obeying the Lord, as well. Hebrews 5:9 says God is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him. You want salvation to be all about a belief alone in Jesus, but it doesn't work like that. We have to also obey the Lord.

For Jesus says,
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46).

Side Note:

Israel made salvation all about the Law Alone Salvationism (with little to no grace). Israel did not accept the Messiah Jesus Christ. Israel looks to the Tanakh (i.e. the Old Testament Scriptures) as their sole form of salvation and they do not accept the New Testament Scriptures. They look to the 613 laws of Moses as a means of salvation. Hence, this is why Paul said what he did in Romans 11:6. Paul was warning the brethren at Rome about how not to think like the Israelite and be justified by the Law of Moses with the Torah or the five books of Moses. This would essentially be Law Alone Salvationism. Hence, from this perspective it is true. If one is trying to be saved by Law Alone, it surely is no more grace or faith in Christ. Paul was warning the Roman brethren not to be like the Jews and go back to the Old Law as a means of salvation like them. This is the context of what Paul was referring to and he was not referring to how we need to obey God after we are saved by God's grace. For Titus 2:11-12 says that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

yeshuaslavejeff · Mar 18, 2020

Charlie24 said:
OK guys, you want to validate your law keeping, go ahead.
.....

Unrepentant sin (LAWLESSNESS with the world) must one day be accounted for.....

What does Yahweh Say About the law ?>>> (through the Apostle Paul who you frequently mis-represented in your posts)
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com › romans
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

yeshuaslavejeff · Mar 18, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Read the OP in this thread. That list is law, man-made law.

Observing that list places you under the law, you are no longer under grace.

When you fail in these observed laws, you are condemned, because there is no grace to sustain you.

Repeat: this is ridiculous fallacy.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 18, 2020

Charlie24 said:
James is being misunderstood by the lawkeepers. The works James speak of are the works the Holy Spirit perform through us by our faith.

Not at all. I believe God does the good work through us. You have even agreed with me before on this point and then you appeared to slip back to accusing me falsely on this point at a later point (as if I don't believe it anymore).

You said:
Those works prove our faith, they are not part of our faith.

Do you know how contradictory that sounds? You said, "Those works prove our faith, but they are not part our faith." Yes, I believe God does the good work through the believer, too. But we do not agree on the topic of "sin and salvation" as the Bible plainly teaches it. Jesus said if you don't forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). Where is this teaching found in the Law? It isn't because it is not an Old Covenant teaching, but it is a New Covenant teaching. This is where your train falls of the rails of the track, friend. Paul was not speaking against the commandments of Jesus, but He was speaking against the Old Law (i.e. the Law of Moses). The Law that we cannot be justified by is the Law of Moses. How so? It says so right in Scripture.

Just read this following verse and believe it:

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses" (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).

Paul did not say you cannot be justified by following the words of Jesus.
If Paul said that he would have disqualified himself by his own words in 1 Timothy 6:3-4.

Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says anyone who does not hear (obey) that prophet [JESUS] they shall be destroyed.

Charlie24 · Mar 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Not at all. I believe God does the good work through us. You have even agreed with me before on this point and then you appeared to slip back to accusing me falsely on this point at a later point (as if I don't believe it anymore).

Do you know how contradictory that sounds? You said, "Those works prove our faith, but they are not part our faith." Yes, I believe God does the good work through the believer, too. But we do not agree on the topic of "sin and salvation" as the Bible plainly teaches it. Jesus said if you don't forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). Where is this teaching found in the Law? It isn't because it is not an Old Covenant teaching, but it is a New Covenant teaching. This is where your train falls of the rails of the track, friend. Paul was not speaking against the commandments of Jesus, but He was speaking against the Old Law (i.e. the Law of Moses). The Law that we cannot be justified by is the Law of Moses. How so? It says so right in Scripture.

Just read this following verse and believe it:

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses" (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).

Paul did not say you cannot be justified by following the words of Jesus.
If Paul said that he would have disqualified himself by his own words in 1 Timothy 6:3-4.

Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says anyone who does not hear (obey) that prophet [JESUS] they shall be destroyed.

Martin Luther didn’t really want the Book of James in the Bible because he thought it emphasized the need for works to much. He believed it focused on works adding to or completing our salvation but upon a closer examination, James is not off the mark at all in what he wrote about faith and the necessity for works that come as a result of that faith.

In James 2:14 he writes “What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?” And “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead” (James 2:17) because the person isn’t walking in these “good works” (Eph 2:10) and that faith; that kind of faith, is not a saving faith at all.

But then “someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works” (James 2:18). James almost seems to be taunting false converts who profess Christ but don’t possess Christ and have no works at all. James is asking them to prove to him that their faith is genuine if it has no works, and then, James will show you his faith; a faith that’s not by itself, but by the works that he does.

Paul writes to Timothy “So also good works are conspicuous, and even those that are not cannot remain hidden” (1st Tim 5:25) so works are conspicuous and out in the open for all to see. Their works are not to be saved; their works are because they are saved.

Charlie24 · Mar 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Not at all. I believe God does the good work through us. You have even agreed with me before on this point and then you appeared to slip back to accusing me falsely on this point at a later point (as if I don't believe it anymore).

Do you know how contradictory that sounds? You said, "Those works prove our faith, but they are not part our faith." Yes, I believe God does the good work through the believer, too. But we do not agree on the topic of "sin and salvation" as the Bible plainly teaches it. Jesus said if you don't forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). Where is this teaching found in the Law? It isn't because it is not an Old Covenant teaching, but it is a New Covenant teaching. This is where your train falls of the rails of the track, friend. Paul was not speaking against the commandments of Jesus, but He was speaking against the Old Law (i.e. the Law of Moses). The Law that we cannot be justified by is the Law of Moses. How so? It says so right in Scripture.

Just read this following verse and believe it:

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses" (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).

Paul did not say you cannot be justified by following the words of Jesus.
If Paul said that he would have disqualified himself by his own words in 1 Timothy 6:3-4.

Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says anyone who does not hear (obey) that prophet [JESUS] they shall be destroyed.

When Jesus was standing on the shore of the sea of Capernaum, some came up to Him and said, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent” (John 6:28-29).

They asked the wrong question and it was what works “must we do” but the only work was to believe in Jesus. They apparently felt burdened about the works they felt they had to do (must we do) and maybe they wanted to know the minimum amount needed.

And instead of feeling like it is a “must do” it should be a “want to.” Jesus focused in on believing in Him and He wanted them to look away from what they must do (works). All major religions in the world are; do, do, do, but with Christ, it’s done. Incidentally, Jesus didn’t say that there wouldn’t be works.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 19, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Martin Luther didn’t really want the Book of James in the Bible because he thought it emphasized the need for works to much. He believed it focused on works adding to or completing our salvation but upon a closer examination, James is not off the mark at all in what he wrote about faith and the necessity for works that come as a result of that faith.

In James 2:14 he writes “What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?” And “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead” (James 2:17) because the person isn’t walking in these “good works” (Eph 2:10) and that faith; that kind of faith, is not a saving faith at all.

But then “someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works” (James 2:18). James almost seems to be taunting false converts who profess Christ but don’t possess Christ and have no works at all. James is asking them to prove to him that their faith is genuine if it has no works, and then, James will show you his faith; a faith that’s not by itself, but by the works that he does.

Paul writes to Timothy “So also good works are conspicuous, and even those that are not cannot remain hidden” (1st Tim 5:25) so works are conspicuous and out in the open for all to see. Their works are not to be saved; their works are because they are saved.

Even if you believe that works in and of themselves are not meritorious or meriting salvation in some way, the fact that they need to be there as a result of showing that one is saved shows their necessity or in the fact that they are meritorious. It would be like trying to divorce a butterfly from a caterpillar. They are one and the same creature. If a person is saved, and works is a byproduct of being saved, then they are needed for salvation to show that one is saved properly by faith. For if there is no works, then one is not saved. But works do not save alone without God's grace. Good works are the result of God doing the good work through the believer (after they are saved by God's grace). Works are the result of knowing God. For God does the good work in a true believer. For Paul says we can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). The way we can have an assurance of knowing God is if we find that we are keeping His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3).

But it is more than just doing good works. It is living holy. For Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. This means one cannot justify grievous sin in any way. Meaning, a believer cannot think that they can abide in certain grievous unconfessed sins (even for a short time) that God's Word condemns with warnings of hellfire or a loss of salvation (like lying, lusting, hating, etc.) and also think they are automatically saved by having a belief alone on Jesus. Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

In Matthew 7:23, we learn that those who did wonderful works in Christ's name did not make it. It is because they justified sin or evil. For Jesus said to these believers to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. They did not know Jesus because they did not keep His commandments (1 John 2:3-4). In Matthew 7, we do not see a greasy grace form of Belief Alone-ism being pushed while somebody can abide in occasional grievous sin that the Bible condemns. No, no. Most certainly not. Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruit (i.e. deeds). Jesus essentially said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and vise versa. In Matthew 7:26-27, those who did not do what Jesus says is related to a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Kind of like this....

But Belief Alone-ism is not used as an example in this clear Parable.
Obedience to Jesus is used instead.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 19, 2020

Charlie24 said:
When Jesus was standing on the shore of the sea of Capernaum, some came up to Him and said, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent” (John 6:28-29).

They asked the wrong question and it was what works “must we do” but the only work was to believe in Jesus. They apparently felt burdened about the works they felt they had to do (must we do) and maybe they wanted to know the minimum amount needed.

And instead of feeling like it is a “must do” it should be a “want to.” Jesus focused in on believing in Him and He wanted them to look away from what they must do (works). All major religions in the world are; do, do, do, but with Christ, it’s done. Incidentally, Jesus didn’t say that there wouldn’t be works.

No offense, but I believe you are picturing a Jesus that does not exist in Scripture. The whole sermon on the mount was about righteous instruction and warnings of hellfire if one did not follow such righteous instruction (See: Matthew 5-7).

Sure, there is God's grace (Ephesians 2:8) (Titus 3:5) (Hebrews 4:16). This is where salvation starts (Titus 3:3-5), and it is the foundation of our salvation (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9). But God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See: Titus 2:11-12). In fact, let's look at this passage:

11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" (Titus 2:11-12).

You believe that the grace of God teaches that we do not always have to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts because you believe that they can still be saved by God's grace in ungodliness and worldly lusts for temporal periods of time and or many times within a believer's life. Your version of grace does not teach the upholding of godly living in this present world. For you said that a believer does not lose their salvation via if they happen to fall into sin. But Jesus said that looking upon a woman in lust means that they are in danger of being cast bodily into hell fire (See: Matthew 5:28-30).

Bible Highlighter · Mar 19, 2020

Charlie24 said:
When Jesus was standing on the shore of the sea of Capernaum, some came up to Him and said, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent” (John 6:28-29).

They asked the wrong question and it was what works “must we do” but the only work was to believe in Jesus. They apparently felt burdened about the works they felt they had to do (must we do) and maybe they wanted to know the minimum amount needed.

And instead of feeling like it is a “must do” it should be a “want to.” Jesus focused in on believing in Him and He wanted them to look away from what they must do (works). All major religions in the world are; do, do, do, but with Christ, it’s done. Incidentally, Jesus didn’t say that there wouldn’t be works.

Also, believing in Jesus is believing not only in the person of Jesus Christ for salvation, but it also includes believing in everything Jesus taught, said, and did. You cannot separate the teachings of our Master from the Teacher.

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46).

"“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matthew 7:21).

What is the will of the Father?

We read in 1 Thessalonians 4:3 the following,

"For this is the will of God [i.e. God the Father], even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:" (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

Sanctification is the will of the Father. This kind of "Sanctification" is defined in context within the verse as "abstain from fornication" which is just another way of saying to "live holy."

Dorothy Mae · Mar 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
All things on my list are derived from NT Scripture.
As for the requirements God has of us: It is written,

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:1-2).

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Corinthians 6:20).

"And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not." (Galatians 6:9).

"But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good." (2 Thessalonians 3:13).

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Matthew 7:14).

Your list was A LOT longer and more rule like. Besides it was non-Biblical in some points.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 19, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
Your list was A LOT longer and more rule like.

I am not surprised. Most Christians today hate rules. But Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). The list of things on my list are not things that popped in my head overnight or by some vision. They are all derived from NT Scripture.

You said:
Besides it was non-Biblical in some points.

Which ones? I can back them up with NT Scripture.
Please take note that not all things on my lists are dealing with the topic of salvation, but they are things that can lead a Christian down a wrong path (and eventually take them away from God) if they refuse to believe in, and or do so such things in this life.

Dorothy Mae · Mar 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I know. Most Christians today hate rules. But Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). The list of things on my list are not things that popped in my head overnight or by some vision. They are all derived from NT Scripture.

Grace becomes rules.

Which ones? I can back them up with NT Scripture.
Please take note that not all things on my lists are dealing with the topic of salvation, but they are things that can lead a Christian down a wrong path (and eventually take them away from God) if they refuse to do so such things in this life.

I’ll go back to the list. Sure glad none who walked with Jesus made up lists.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 19, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
Grace becomes rules.

I’ll go back to the list. Sure glad none who walked with Jesus made up lists.

I have already been over this point before (within this thread), but Jesus Himself made lists. It would be the equivalent of what Christians today call as the "Beattitudes."

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." (Matthew 5:3-12).

Also, Jesus gave us the two greatest commandments, too (Mark 12:29-31).
This is technically a numbered list (Although it is a short one).

What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians? (Please no debating or criticism)

Newbie

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Newbie

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Similar threads