How do I explain that Homosexuality is Wrong While Reassuring Others Of God's Love?

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yeshuaslavejeff

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Is it in 1st John written that anyhone who teaches others that sin and wickedness is okay, don't worry about it , is full of darkness, a liar, and the truth is not in him ? i.e. approving of sin is as bad as sinning, and has nothing to do with love at all.
 
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Arc F1

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IMO a church cannot start getting rid of anyone. It is supposed to be a place where sinners, who don't think things are a sin, can come and learn, be taught, investigate, seek and listen...

We should never turn them away unless they are being violent, obnoxious, disruptive, hurtful or damaging.

This would go for anyone else too.

I agree. I was referring to those that have been taught, seen it in the bible and refuse to ask for forgiveness. The topic was homosexuals so I will stick with that as an example. Say every Sunday a homosexual that knows our beliefs but refuses to listen keeps showing up. They don't believe what they are doing is a sin and the bible says we are not to surround ourselves with sinners. The only solution would be to ask them to leave. We have to shine a light on sin. We can't sit back and accept it, preach that it's ok all because we are afraid someone won't like it. If we change our beliefs to accommodate sin we are denying Christ. Another poster said they didn't believe it was wrong to be homosexual. I don't understand how that can be allowed to be taught in the church. You will have people in the church that will believe the word of God has no meaning as long as the preacher says so.
 
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Bob Bridges

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....Sex is pleasurable for one reason and that's so we will multiply. God tells us homosexuality is wrong because it serves no purpose....
I can't agree with this. If you and your wife are past child-bearing age, or perhaps have discovered that due to some physical problem cannot conceive children, do you believe it would be sinful for you two to continue to have sex? There must be a ton of activities that "serve no purpose" but are pleasurable and not sinful. As far as I can determine from reading scriptures, pleasure is a purpose—though not, of course, the only purpose, often not even a very important one. Nah, the reason it's sinful has to be some harm that it does, as you yourself wrote elsewhere in that post.

Can you explain why you believe going against scripture is ok?
Because he doesn't believe the Bible is authoritative, duh! For thoughtful Christians this must be one of the most difficult conundrums of our faith: We're told the Bible is the word of God, but how do we know it's true? Because fallible men tell us it is? Let's not be silly. Because the Bible itself says it is? That's even worse. I didn't see any way to solve this until I asked God my own self, and He gave me an answer His own Self. After that I considered that riddle solved. But I don't see why anyone else would believe it, until they have the same assurance for themselves.
 
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Arc F1

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I can't agree with this. If you and your wife are past child-bearing age, or perhaps have discovered that due to some physical problem cannot conceive children, do you believe it would be sinful for you two to continue to have sex? There must be a ton of activities that "serve no purpose" but are pleasurable and not sinful. As far as I can determine from reading scriptures, pleasure is a purpose—though not, of course, the only purpose, often not even a very important one. Nah, the reason it's sinful has to be some harm that it does, as you yourself wrote elsewhere in that post.

Because he doesn't believe the Bible is authoritative, duh! For thoughtful Christians this must be one of the most difficult conundrums of our faith: We're told the Bible is the word of God, but how do we know it's true? Because fallible men tell us it is? Let's not be silly. Because the Bible itself says it is? That's even worse. I didn't see any way to solve this until I asked God my own self, and He gave me an answer His own Self. After that I considered that riddle solved. But I don't see why anyone else would believe it, until they have the same assurance for themselves.

Of course, I'm not going to stop having sex because my wife and I aren't having any more kids. I was talking about why God made it pleasurable. The purpose was to multiply. Maybe he did it as a bonus also. I can't say one way or the other but I am glad he saw fit to do it. He definitly didnt do it for men to lay with other men.

I just left a church that I've been going to for some time because the preacher for some reason decided to be politically correct. I know it was to increase attendance but at the cost of no longer offending people. To me thats definitely a falling away.
 
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Bob Bridges

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I just left a church that I've been going to for some time because the preacher for some reason decided to be politically correct. I know it was to increase attendance but at the cost of no longer offending people. To me thats definitely a falling away.
Absolutely agree. I notice, by the way, that it's the churches that go this route that are the ones complaining of falling attendance. If they offer the world only what the world can offer on its own, I suppose there's no particular reason for the world to pay much attention. It's the churches who strongly desire to be obedient that are doing best, as far as I can see, purely in terms of attendance and interest.

I notice also, with pleasure, that Christians in other parts of the world disagree strongly with the tendency in the US to compromise on matters like this. The Episcopals in Africa, for instance, are furious with American Episcopals over the issue of homosexual priests. It gives me some confidence about the stories I hear of the Holy Spirit moving strongly in other parts of the world. I've occasionally worried that such stories about far-off places might be fanciful wish-fulfillment fables, since I can't check on their veracity. It's not yet happening here; but God grant that we catch fire soon here, too!
 
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PloverWing

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God tells us homosexuality is wrong because it serves no purpose.

This is more detail than God has actually provided. I assume the writers of Scripture had some reasons in mind, but they didn't actually put those reasons into their writing. That's part of the challenge of all this.
 
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JacksBratt

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I agree. I was referring to those that have been taught, seen it in the bible and refuse to ask for forgiveness. The topic was homosexuals so I will stick with that as an example. Say every Sunday a homosexual that knows our beliefs but refuses to listen keeps showing up. They don't believe what they are doing is a sin and the bible says we are not to surround ourselves with sinners. The only solution would be to ask them to leave. We have to shine a light on sin. We can't sit back and accept it, preach that it's ok all because we are afraid someone won't like it. If we change our beliefs to accommodate sin we are denying Christ. Another poster said they didn't believe it was wrong to be homosexual. I don't understand how that can be allowed to be taught in the church. You will have people in the church that will believe the word of God has no meaning as long as the preacher says so.
I disagree... Unless they are vocal and arguing, contradicting the speaker or otherwise being disruptive... you let them stay.

Some seeds grow slowly. They would be there for some reason. Until it is found to be disruptive... we cannot start judging who is allowed in church and who is not.
 
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dougangel

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I read those quotes... I don't think you got my original point.

You don't need to be a homosexual, liar, thief, cheat, adulterer or such to go to hell...

You can be any of those, also.. and be forgiven and go to heaven.

We all start on the road to hell.... every single one of us... Not one is righteous and nobody can do anything of themselves to be granted acceptance into heaven.

So, with that being true... everyone in heaven is a sinner.. They are just sinners who have been ransomed by Christ's work on the cross.


It all depends on your heart. Did you accept your sinfulness, confess it to Christ, accept His gift of salvation? Which covers all sins.

If I steel a car, a diamond ring.. or whatever.. I'm a thief... nothing will change that so that. Same with a homosexual...

However, you can accept that you are a sinner, from any sin... and ask for salvation, and be granted it.

So, there will be homosexuals in heaven... those that accepted Christ... If you have broken one law.. you have broken them all...

I did know that
There are repented forgiven people in heaven. God is the judge of that. But on earth once we know the truth we are to be "slaves of righteousness". The topic on this thread is about teaching young people.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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We can't sit back and accept it, preach that it's ok all because we are afraid someone won't like it. If we change our beliefs to accommodate sin we are denying Christ.
Most people on earth are denying Christ, whether they acknowledge Him as Savior/Messiah or not.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I disagree... Unless they are vocal and arguing, contradicting the speaker or otherwise being disruptive... you let them stay.
But this is not what God's Instructions are in Scripture,
and while it might seem , somehow, okay to let them stay in sin and stay in the assembly,
God Clearly says it pollutes the assembly - and He says not to do that.
 
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JacksBratt

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I did know that
There are repented forgiven people in heaven. God is the judge of that. But on earth once we know the truth we are to be "slaves of righteousness". The topic on this thread is about teaching young people.
We are slaves to nothing.. Christ has set us free.
 
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JacksBratt

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But this is not what God's Instructions are in Scripture,
and while it might seem , somehow, okay to let them stay in sin and stay in the assembly,
God Clearly says it pollutes the assembly - and He says not to do that.
It's not up to me if they stay in sin or not... That is their choice. Anyone that wants to can come and sit in the service at our church... anyone. Long as they don't act up, shout out, disrupt the service in any way.

We don't screen our attendees.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Hello everyone I am in need of seasoned advice. Today in Youth Group in which I help lead we went over the topic of Homosexuality and what the Bible had to say about it as well as what the official doctrine of the Universal church had to say. Needless to say I don't feel that the other Youth Leaders and myself did a very good job of explaining homosexuality and why is it considered wrong. Some like myself were afraid of offending others and the others kinda had this mentality that well it's 2020 and it's ok in the west to be in a homosexual relationship. I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie. At the end of it they still believed that love was love. Do any of you have any experience witnessing to homosexuals or how do we stand firm on the truth but present it in love?

What is socially accepted isn't what God says we should reflect in our own behavior...

Socially it's not illegal to tell a "white lie", or to go to a party and get drunk, or to have sexual encounters outside of marriage either, but it's not acceptable to God for His people.

The Christian is in Covanent with God, and we have a responsibility to that covenant and to reflect our Lord and Savior in our actions and relationships. This means our actions won't always reflect the actions which are acceptable in society, and sometimes they will be very much at odds with society.

What God says is sin, is sin. We don't have to explain it other than to say this is behavior unbefitting of a follower of Christ.

It doesn't mean we don't show love toward everyone we encounter, we certainly should more than even the nonChristian shows. Our actions in love should be a light and a testimony to Christ - always.

But we shouldn't be afraid, when appropriate, to share that some things God calls sin, as He didn't create His people to conform to the world's standards, but to conform to His.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I disagree... Unless they are vocal and arguing, contradicting the speaker or otherwise being disruptive... you let them stay.

Some seeds grow slowly. They would be there for some reason. Until it is found to be disruptive... we cannot start judging who is allowed in church and who is not.

I think attendance is different than membership. If you have a committed church member in open blatant sin as a church you should provide counsel as to the serious error, and allow God to work in them.

If after some time they don't stop a grave or mortal sin then they should be removed from membership. That's biblical.

But a visitor to the church is a different topic.
 
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dougangel

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We are slaves to nothing.. Christ has set us free.
Slaves to Righteousness
Romans 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ok well that's proof that you didn't read my post 236 while saying you did.

Yes we are free from sin but slaves to righteousness.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It's not up to me if they stay in sin or not... That is their choice. Anyone that wants to can come and sit in the service at our church... anyone. Long as they don't act up, shout out, disrupt the service in any way.

We don't screen our attendees.
Did you read the Instructions to the assemblies in the NT ? Concerning those who do sin and do not repent ? After they are appropriately approached - perhaps three or more times, and if they still continue living in sin, not repenting,
Yahweh says to put them out, no option.

With the understnding that the perpuse is for them to repent... so they can be restored to Jesus and to fellowship AFTER they repent....
 
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Beanieboy

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I think you are going to lose a lot youth because they are tech savvy. There are a number of videos by theologians looking at the context, who was speaking and to whom, and translation.

So, when I hear a person say, "The bible is clear," I realize only one of us did the homework. Theologians are split on the subject which shows it isn't clear.

But then to quote Leviticus, but then tell me that they only follow two verses in the entire book, makes me wonder what they are after.

While you are claiming homosexuals have demons, the probably know a friend, classmate, cousin, teacher who is glbtq, and who is kind, loving, and is going to be different than the faceless homosexual you preach about.

They may know kids who have disowned, have even become homeless after coming out. Personally, I have known a number of gays who tried to change, but it didn't happen, a couple who kept being told, "Just date. Just get married. Just have kids." Still gay.

So, my suggestion is to hear both sides. Check youtube.
Check out unclobbering the clobber passages.
Listen to Gay Christians, like Mathew Vines.
Look at radical conservatives like Steve Anderson, and understand this is broadcasted globally.

Finally, take it to God in prayer, and seek guidance.

From my experience, my teen years were difficult as most were, but having people quote Leviticus was both preached and received as, "God believes you are disgusting, and commands we kill you." Not what Christians are to be known by.

But a good question for the group: Why has the church been so obsessed with this issue for 50 years now?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Finally, take it to God in prayer, and seek guidance.
FIRST seek Yahweh's Kingdom , AND His Righteousness (no iniquity)... FIRST, and finally, all the time.

Why has the church been so obsessed with this issue for 50 years now?
Because the deception is greater than ever before since the first century.

Sin is not considered bad, or even as if needing to repent, by those in the world who refuse to stop worshiping and serving demons.
 
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Hazelelponi

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But a good question for the group: Why has the church been so obsessed with this issue for 50 years now

Because within the church (and European society in general most likely) it's not been much of an issue before now.

There weren't masses of people who decided to walk inside churches and put forward a concerted effort to change essential teachings of scripture concerning sexual relations until this point in history.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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But a good question for the group: Why has the church been so obsessed with this issue for 50 years now?
Another good question: or rather clarification : All the true assemblies of born again Ekklesia I've ever seen, heard, been in, or heard about, have no such obsession with sin or with sinners. They simply do not allow such things, instead live daily obeying Jesus simply, as His sheep, like little children (that Jesus says we must become like to ever see heaven).
 
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