IS THE WILL OF HUMANS CONTROLLED BY GOD?

Kermos

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The Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved (Acts 2:47), so the Lord Jesus makes addition to the Assembly of God the ones being saved (Matthew 19:25-26, John 15:1-19, God is our believer's merciful Benefactor, and we believers are unworthy beneficiaries (post in this thread)). But not so with the synagogue of Satan where self willed person's imaginary free will choice is worked (Revelation 3:9, 2 Peter 2:9-10) in their first nature (post in this thread).

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
 
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Kermos

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Nonsense! Quoting a different version does not change anything. There is absolutely no way you can twist this to make it apply to anyone but the disciples/apostles who were present with Jesus when He spoke this.
V s. 15 when did Jesus ever call present days Christian slaves or servants? He didn't!
All scripture is written for us but all scripture was not written to us.
John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
When were you ever thrown out of a synagogue?
John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
When was the last time you literally, actually saw Jesus?

That's very childish, whether I used calling or choosing, the objective of the sentence is the same, that "salvation" is not found in the passage. Both passages are about discipleship.
Given how you condemn anyone who uses words not found in a verse, this is shear hypocrisy. The word "Salvation" is found nowhere in the whole of Jn15, so everything you claim about that must, by your own rulebook be a total lie. You are adding to scripture.
Like when Jesus says, "You are of your father, the devil"?
I pity you if you can't differentiate who Jesus is talking to, it must be very confusing.
Despite all the curses and judgements you heap on me @Kermos, I delight in the Lord. He is my constant companion and my hiding place, day and night.
It amuses me that you rant so confidently against me, that I am no friend of Jesus. How do you know who my friends are?
Have you ever heard the Lord speak to you in words of knowledge, prophecies, visions, dreams etc.
Have you ever heard the Lord urgently warn you about a car crash around the next bend, thus saving your life.
Have you ever had God give you open visions about how to fix engineering machinery.
Have you ever had God given dreams in answer to prayer about work problems.
Have you ever heard God speak telling you which house to buy, and how to buy it when you don't have enough money. (several times)
Have you ever heard God tell you which car to buy and where to find it, exactly the model asked for.
I might not be the Lord's best friend on this planet, that's for him to say, but he sure is my best and closest friend, the lover of my soul.

Lord Jesus speaks to the modern listener of His words (John 10:27-30), we whom He mercifully and lovingly opened our ears to hear His precious voice such as when he says blessed things like "I no longer call you slaves" (John 15:15)!

@Francis Drake and @Der Alter the two of you try to eliminate entire swaths of the Word of God in your self will (2 Peter 2:9-10) zeal of daringly trying to eliminate that the word "you" in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) applies to all believers in all time. You try to rob the modern reader of The Voice of Truth.

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
 
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Francis Drake

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At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 18:1-4)
"Whoever humbles himself" Did you miss that @Kermos. It's not God who does the humbling, but us.
This brings up an important point, Francis Drake, your great deed of choosing is of pride, great pride and arrogance because the free will doctrine indicates that God has no choice but to comply with your choice.
On the contrary, Jesus has already done the work and fully paid the price in his blood. All we have to do is accept that freely given redemption.
People can take it or leave it, Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just your theologically correct Calvinists.
That great deed or work of choice that is the dead side of conversion according to the Matthew passage.
Nowhere in scripture is making the right choice classified as one of your "works".
Francis Drake, I know Jesus is not your friend in your current state because you say the "you" in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) does not apply to you so by extension the "you" in Jesus' words of "I have called you friends" (John 15:15) in the previous verse does not apply to you. Your words convey meaning, Francis Drake.
Hilarious. I've known Jesus since my childhood. None of your lies can change that.
Having the correct theology didn't get me into relationship with the Lord, it was humbling myself before His presence.

Do you not understand that you don't get born again because you're a skilled theologian, you get born again as a humble child of God. Only then as a member of His family can you grow into spiritual understanding.

Here in the UK, there is a whole load of people obsessed with the Royal Family. They follow every last jot of information, every public duty or random appearance of each member. They will tell you every last thing about the Royal family.

But none of that expansive knowledge makes them a member of that Royal family. They might have given their whole lives to following the royals, but they don't even come close to the power inherent in the latest new born baby of that family.

So you can rant all you like about me not being a friend of Jesus, but I am still a member of that Royal Family of God. I am born from above by the seed (or sperma) of God.
 
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Francis Drake

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Francis Drake, I know Jesus is not your friend in your current state because you say the "you" in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) does not apply to you so by extension the "you" in Jesus' words of "I have called you friends" (John 15:15) in the previous verse does not apply to you. Your words convey meaning, Francis Drake.
Tell me @Kermos, is Jesus your friend, and how do you know that?
What does he do for you?
 
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Der Alte

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There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
When Jesus said "You did not choose me I chose you," He was talking only to the disciples who were present with Him. Those whom Jesus personally contacted and said "follow me."
Your falsely misplaced verse clearly shows it. If Jesus had been talking to all believers then present and future, all along, it would not have been necessary for Him to pray "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! Two groups, "these," i.e. present with Jesus and "those also who believe in Me through their word." not present.
In addition to the other verses which I showed could only have been spoke to the disciples present with Jesus.
 
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Kermos

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"Whoever humbles himself" Did you miss that @Kermos. It's not God who does the humbling, but us.

It seems to escape your notice that Lord Jesus says "unless you are converted and become like children" (Matthew 18:3) prior to "Whoever then humbles himself as this child" (Matthew 18:4), and Jesus' words of "unless you are converted and become like children" (Matthew 18:3) are a direct reference to "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3, see also John 3:4-8).

Jesus indicates that one must be born again in Matthew 18:3. He even says "converted" which equates to "born again"/"born from above". He refers to "the kingdom" in both Matthew 18:3 and John 3:3.

After one is born again by God's choosing - for a person certainly cannot cause himself or herself to be born again - then such a one has fruit of the Spirit which includes being humble (Matthew 18:4) - humility being fruit - for Lord Jesus says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5). If a person will humble himself, then it is because God is working in such a person.

Francis Drake, your great deed of choosing is of your pride, great pride and arrogance because the free will doctrine indicates that God has no choice but to comply with your choice. That great deed or work of your choice is on the dead side of conversion according to the Matthew passage.

On the contrary, Jesus has already done the work and fully paid the price in his blood. All we have to do is accept that freely given redemption.

No place in scripture states "All we have to do is accept" - no place. You are adding your "accept" to scripture.

People can take it or leave it, Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just your theologically correct Calvinists.

Well, "whole world" occurs twice in First John. Here they are:

"He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world" (1 John 2:2).

"the whole world lies in [the power of] the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

So "the whole world" is mentioned in two very different contexts within the same book! We saved persons are not in the evil one. We saved persons are in Christ.

You are twisting the meaning of "world" out of it's context in 1 John 2:2; otherwise, you have a huge problem in 1 John 5:19).

Nowhere in scripture is making the right choice classified as one of your "works".

Nowhere in scripture is it recorded that man has the ability to make a choice toward God unto salvation.

Belief/faith in Jesus whom the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29).

Since you convey that you can manipulate your belief to choose toward God, then I point where Jesus calls belief in Jesus the work of God (John 6:29).

Choice is a work. "Choosing" is a deed.

Hilarious. I've known Jesus since my childhood. None of your lies can change that.
Having the correct theology didn't get me into relationship with the Lord, it was humbling myself before His presence.

You could only choose a false god because Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of hte world" (John 15:19).

Do you not understand that you don't get born again because you're a skilled theologian, you get born again as a humble child of God. Only then as a member of His family can you grow into spiritual understanding.

You need to understand that you cannot be born from above while rejecting the intrinsic attribute that Lord Jesus reserves to Himself with His words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of hte world" (John 15:19).

Here in the UK, there is a whole load of people obsessed with the Royal Family. They follow every last jot of information, every public duty or random appearance of each member. They will tell you every last thing about the Royal family.

But none of that expansive knowledge makes them a member of that Royal family. They might have given their whole lives to following the royals, but they don't even come close to the power inherent in the latest new born baby of that family.

So you can rant all you like about me not being a friend of Jesus, but I am still a member of that Royal Family of God. I am born from above by the seed (or sperma) of God.

A person who is not a friend of Jesus by extension is not a citizen of the Kingdom of God because Lord Jesus says "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also" (John 14:3), and Jesus said this in the supper covered in John chapters 13 - 17.

Francis Drake, a person who claims the "you" in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) does not apply to such a person by extension the "you" in Jesus' words of "I have called you friends" (John 15:15) in the previous verse does not apply to such a person either. Your words convey meaning, Francis Drake.

You deny the words of the Apostle Peter who indicates when Jesus says "you" it applies to all believers in all time (post in this thread).

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
 
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Kermos

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Tell me @Kermos, is Jesus your friend, and how do you know that?
What does he do for you?

It's not about me - I am insignificant.

It is about the Great God Who came to earth to rescue the dead from eternal anguish under the wrath of God (Ezekiel 37:1-14, John 3:36).

It is about the Almighty God Who merciflly does it all to lovingly makes wretches into holy ones to become one with Jesus Christ. Oh the riches of His Glory!

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
 
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Kermos

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When Jesus said "You did not choose me I chose you," He was talking only to the disciples who were present with Him. Those whom Jesus personally contacted and said "follow me."
Your falsely misplaced verse clearly shows it. If Jesus had been talking to all believers then present and future, all along, it would not have been necessary for Him to pray "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! Two groups, "these," i.e. present with Jesus and "those also who believe in Me through their word." not present.
In addition to the other verses which I showed could only have been spoke to the disciples present with Jesus.

You try to nullify the words of Jesus for the contemporary hearer, but you fail.

You wrote "If Jesus had been talking to all believers then present and future, all along, it would not have been necessary", but those are your words not the Word of God!

There is no partiality in God, so all disciples are all disciples. There are no "two groups" of disciples elucidated in Scripture.

The Word of God says "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20), and Lord Jesus used the words "believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20), and the Apostle John recorded the words of Lord Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) since it does not include ANY EXCEPTIONS this means salvation and sanctification are included with no choosing by we His disciples, His sheep, His friends in all time (John 15:15 which could be the very same breath by which He spoke the words in John 15:16).

Clearly, Lord Jesus knows it is necessary for Him to pray "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20) to eliminate any excuse for some creature to rejects Him and His intrinsic attribute and such a creature that does not receive His words (John 12:48).

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
 
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Ronald

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Is the will of humans controlled by God?
Let me answer a question with some questions.
Is God sovereign? All the rest fall under His sovereignty ----
Does He have a plan?
Is His plan perfect?
Can we mess up His plan?

Here's one that will mess with you.
Do we chose our leaders or does He appoint all leaders? (See Romans 13:1,2)

When Jesus says put my yoke upon you, that means He guides us to and fro. We wander off the path but His influence is powerful. We think that mist of our thoughts were either learned or self-generated. An idea pops in our heads and we think we created it. Why, are we that smart? Sometimes, but very often He is putting that idea, thought, solution in your mind. It so strong that we feel so strongly about and move in that direction. He works through us that way and yes we cooperate _ as clueless as we are _ we are part of His overall plan. We screw up, but He factors in our errors for a purpose. "God causes all things to work for good, for those who love the Lord, for those who are called to his purpose." All things _ but notice it doesn't say for everyone.
 
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Francis Drake

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It seems to escape your notice that Lord Jesus says "unless you are converted and become like children" (Matthew 18:3) prior to "Whoever then humbles himself as this child" (Matthew 18:4), and Jesus' words of "unless you are converted and become like children" (Matthew 18:3)
It says unless you turn. There is no "are" in that sentence despite some versions using it.
So, as with the second half I quoted, the first half puts the onus of change entirely on you, not God.
“Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change (turn) and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Thus the onus for both changing and for humbling is entirely on you, and nowhere does it say God does the changing or the humbling for you.
Francis Drake, your great deed of choosing is of your pride, great pride and arrogance because the free will doctrine indicates that God has no choice but to comply with your choice. That great deed or work of your choice is on the dead side of conversion according to the Matthew passage.
"Great deed", don't be silly, it was no great deed when I did what Jesus said and simply humbled myself.
Humbling myself simply means making myself smaller, not greater as you imagine. But then you're a Calvinist, brainwashed for back to front thinking!
Well, "whole world" occurs twice in First John. Here they are:
"He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world" (1 John 2:2).
Brilliant verse, proves my point
"the whole world lies in [the power of] the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

So "the whole world" is mentioned in two very different contexts within the same book! We saved persons are not in the evil one. We saved persons are in Christ.
Absolutely yes, this again proves my point, thanks for posting it.
The whole world lies in the grip of the evil one, which is why Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, that the evil one's grip could be broken.
But of course many prefer darkness rather than light.
You are twisting the meaning of "world" out of it's context in 1 John 2:2; otherwise, you have a huge problem in 1 John 5:19).
Hilarious silliness, go read them again without your Calvinist specs on.
The verses are entirely in context and obviously reinforces one other, to all but fools.

But I don't need 1John to prove this point. Paul says it here-
2Cor5v18Now all things are of God, the One having reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and having given to us the ministry of reconciliation: 19how that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning their trespasses to them, and having put into us the word of reconciliation.
Jesus reconciled the world to himself, not half or a part, but the whole world. That many people reject him is their own choice.

And again Paul says the same to Timothy.-
1Tim2v6who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.
Ransom for who, for some, for Calvinists maybe?
Absolutely not Jesus is a ransom for all, for ALL!
That means no one was left out of the sacrifice Jesus paid with his blood.

The fact that only some get saved is entirely because they choose to reject the Lord. They love darkness rather than light.
That's simple mathematical logic.
Choice is a work. "Choosing" is a deed.
What a laughable and entirely unscriptural drivel, found nowhere in scripture.
How on earth could a sensible person come up with the idea that responding to God is a "work" of man?
 
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Francis Drake

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It's not about me - I am insignificant.
I asked you a question, which you run away from.
Francis Drake said:
Tell me @Kermos, is Jesus your friend, and how do you know that?
What does he do for you?

Countless times through this thread you have told me that I am absolutely no friend of Jesus.
Given your level of authority on the subject, my question is deserving of an answer @Kermos.
Please do that asap.

So tell me @Kermos, is Jesus your friend, and how do you know that?
What does he do for you?

Or can't you answer it?
 
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Francis Drake

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There is no partiality in God, so all disciples are all disciples. There are no "two groups" of disciples elucidated in Scripture.
On the contrary, your god is extremely partial and extremely cruel. He creates people with the sole objective of burning eternally in hell, for no other reason than he could.
 
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Kermos

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On the contrary, your god is extremely partial and extremely cruel. He creates people with the sole objective of burning eternally in hell, for no other reason than he could.

According to self will (2 Peter 2:9-10)/free will (Philemon 1:14)/Arminian theology, specifically that God created everybody - all humans in all time; therefore, extrapolating from your intellectual post, all those who do not choose Jesus were created by God, so they are subject to the wrath of God because they did not choose Jesus. Your theology and your intellectualizing post argue against each other - that is you against you. Some call that cognitive dissonance, but the next paragraph gives a scriptural meaning to it.

You attempt to break the Light since you claim to choose Jesus at some level which means your "choice" directly opposes the words of the Lord Jesus, the Light (John 1:14), "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), for the Light says "everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:20), and it is evil to oppose the Word of God, the Light, who says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).
 
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Kermos

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I asked you a question, which you run away from.
Francis Drake said: ↑
Tell me @Kermos, is Jesus your friend, and how do you know that?
What does he do for you?

Countless times through this thread you have told me that I am absolutely no friend of Jesus.
Given your level of authority on the subject, my question is deserving of an answer @Kermos.
Please do that asap.

So tell me @Kermos, is Jesus your friend, and how do you know that?
What does he do for you?

Or can't you answer it?

It's not about me - I am insignificant. "Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing" (Jesus Christ, Matthew 6:3).

It is about the Great God Who came to earth to rescue the dead from eternal anguish under the wrath of God (Ezekiel 37:1-14, John 3:36).

It is about the Almighty God Who merciflly does it all to lovingly makes wretches into holy ones to become one with Jesus Christ. Oh the riches of His Glory!

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
 
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Kermos

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It says unless you turn. There is no "are" in that sentence despite some versions using it.
So, as with the second half I quoted, the first half puts the onus of change entirely on you, not God.
“Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change (turn) and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Thus the onus for both changing and for humbling is entirely on you, and nowhere does it say God does the changing or the humbling for you.

1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
2 And He called a child to Himself and set him before them,
3 and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
4 "Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 18:1-4)

The words "you are converted" comes from the Greek word base of strepho which means turn, convert, and change, but in Matthew 18:3 the actual verb word is straphete which is aorist subjunctive passive in the 2nd person plural which causes the word to mean "you are turned" or "you are converted" or "your are changed".

This means that Matthew 18:3 can be rendered with any of these:

"unless you are turned and become like children" (Matthew 18:3)

"unless you are changed and become like children" (Matthew 18:3)

"unless you are converted and become like children" (Matthew 18:3)

Each and every instance represents the person being acted upon by God.

Behold, Lord Jesus says "unless you are converted and become like children" which is a direct reference to "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3, see also John 3:4-8).

He even says "converted" which equates to "born again"/"born from above". He refers to "the kingdom" in both Matthew 18:3 and John 3:3.

Taking scripture with scripture, Lord Jesus indicates that one must be born again in Matthew 18:3.

After one is born again by God's choosing - for a person certainly cannot cause himself or herself to be born again - then such a one has fruit of the Spirit which includes being humble (Matthew 18:4) - humility being fruit - for Lord Jesus says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

Cross-referencing scripture, Lord Jesus indicates that God is required for people to bear much fruit - even being humble!

None of Matthew 18:1-4 indicates "choose" for the word is absent implicitly and explicitly, so you are adding to scripture AGAIN.

"Great deed", don't be silly, it was no great deed when I did what Jesus said and simply humbled myself.
Humbling myself simply means making myself smaller, not greater as you imagine. But then you're a Calvinist, brainwashed for back to front thinking!

Francis Drake, your great deed of choosing is of your pride, great pride and arrogance because the free will doctrine indicates that God has no choice but to comply with your choice. That great deed or work of your choice is on the dead side of conversion according to the Matthew passage.

Choice is a work. "Choosing" is a deed. The Apostle Paul wrote that we are not saved by our works (Ephesians 2:8-10), but you worked a choice.

Brilliant verse, proves my point

"He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world" (1 John 2:2).

Look, the word "choose" nor the concept of man "choosing" God is in the verse,

Since your point of "choose" is not in the verse, then it is sounding like you are arguing that everyone without exception is saved.

Nonetheless, these words of John need to be reconciled back to the words of Jesus.

Jesus says that He came "to give His life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20:28).

Jesus also gave this parable:

2 "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.
3 "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.
4 "Again he sent out other slaves saying, 'Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are [all] butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."'
5 "But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,
6 and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.
7 "But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.
8 "Then he said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
9 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find [there], invite to the wedding feast.'
10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
12 and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 "For many are called, but few [are] chosen."
(Matthew 22:2-14)

Well, clearly, Jesus is saying that not everyone is going to be saved; therefore, "the whole world" here in 1 John 2:2 would mean the chosen of God (John 15:16. Matthew 22:14).

John is certainly not going to contradict Jesus!

Absolutely yes, this again proves my point, thanks for posting it.
The whole world lies in the grip of the evil one, which is why Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, that the evil one's grip could be broken.
But of course many prefer darkness rather than light.

"the whole world lies in [the power of] the evil one" (1 John 5:19)

Look, the word "choose" nor the concept of man "choosing" God is in the verse,

The whole world here in 1 John 5:19 are all the unsaved which includes people destined for "the outer darkness" where "there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 22:13) as well as the chosen of God yet to be saved (Matthew 22:14, Ephesians 2:1-5).

"The whole world" in 1 John 5:19 is not the same as "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2.

You are twisting the meaning of "the whole world" out of it's context in 1 John 2:2, so you have a huge problem in 1 John 5:19 - and you have serious problem with adding to scripture.

Hilarious silliness, go read them again without your Calvinist specs on.
The verses are entirely in context and obviously reinforces one other, to all but fools.

You have said it.

But I don't need 1John to prove this point. Paul says it here-
2Cor5v18Now all things are of God, the One having reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and having given to us the ministry of reconciliation: 19how that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning their trespasses to them, and having put into us the word of reconciliation.
Jesus reconciled the world to himself, not half or a part, but the whole world. That many people reject him is their own choice.

Look, the word "choose" nor the concept of man making a "choice" toward God is in the passage, so you add to the words of Paul by your words of "That many people reject him is their own choice",

And again Paul says the same to Timothy.-
1Tim2v6who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.
Ransom for who, for some, for Calvinists maybe?
Absolutely not Jesus is a ransom for all, for ALL!
That means no one was left out of the sacrifice Jesus paid with his blood.

Well, Paul is not going to contradict Jesus' words "to give His life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20:28, as well as Matthew 11:2-14); therefore, all means the chosen as well as chosen yet to be saved.

Regardless, the word "choose" nor the concept of man making a "choice" toward God is in the passage, so this fails to be a proof for choosing toward God.

The fact that only some get saved is entirely because they choose to reject the Lord. They love darkness rather than light.
That's simple mathematical logic.
What a laughable and entirely unscriptural drivel, found nowhere in scripture.
How on earth could a sensible person come up with the idea that responding to God is a "work" of man?

Zero, none, nada - that's the amount of scripture that indicates a person can "choose" towards God in the New Testament.

Zero, none, nada - that's the amount of scripture that indicates a person can "choose to reject the Lord" (your words) in the New Testament.

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
 
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Der Alte

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4 "Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 18:1-4)
The word converted comes from the Greek word strepho which means turn, convert, and change.
This means that Matthew 18:3 can be rendered with any of these:
"unless you are turned and become like children" (Matthew 18:3)
"unless you are changed and become like children" (Matthew 18:3)
"unless you are converted and become like children" (Matthew 18:3)
Each and every instance represents the person being acted upon by God.
Behold, Lord Jesus says "unless you are converted and become like children" which is a direct reference to "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3, see also John 3:4-8)
....
This is the big fail in all heterodox religious groups. They think that with a Strong's that makes them a Greek expert. Look at a list of definitions in Strong's eeny, meeny, miney, moe pick one you like. That ain't the way it is done. The correct meaning of a word is determined by case, tense, voice, mood etc.
 
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Kermos

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This is the big fail in all heterodox religious groups. They think that with a Strong's that makes them a Greek expert. Look at a list of definitions in Strong's eeny, meeny, miney, moe pick one you like. That ain't the way it is done. The correct meaning of a word is determined by case, tense, voice, mood etc.

"Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven" (Jesus Christ, Matthew 18:3).

The words "you are converted" comes from the Greek word base of strepho which means turn, convert, and change, but in Matthew 18:3 the actual verb word is straphete which is aorist subjunctive passive in the 2nd person plural which causes the word to mean "you are turned" or "you are converted" or "your are changed".

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
 
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Kermos

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There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
 
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Let answer a question with some questions.
Is God sovereign? All rest fall under His sovereignty
Does He have a plan?
Is His plan perfect?
Can we mess up His plan?
Here's one that will mess with you.
Do we chose our leaders or does He appoint all leaders? (See Romans 13:1,2)
Well asked!
 
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